Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
Are you saying a false judgement was passed? Now how is that possible?
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
Thanks,
Makes sense now
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
Thats why 4 witnesses are needed!
I don't see where that hadith says anything about 4 witnesses being needed to testify for a rape. The entire muslim world knows that this is not a requirement. This law only exists in Pakistan, and in no other muslim country.
This hadith, if anything, indicates that you are to take the female's testimony as truth, as long as you don't have reason to believe that she is lying. But if it turns out she was lying, and you've already executed an innocent man, then the woman needs a punishment, since she's responsible for an innocent death.
I mean, its quite clear. I don't think you need to be a genius to figure it out.
And please keep in mind that we don't live in 600 A.D. in some desert where there are no DNA tests, and medical tests that proove and indicate the female was indeed raped, and not making it all up. If there is undeniable proof that a female has been raped, and she identifiies the victim, and its confirmed with a DNA test, then that's all you need. Why the heck would even need 1 witness? In fact, the reputation of the female isn't even considered. She could be a person with sins on her back, and you still have to punish her rapist and not her.
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
According to Hudood ordinance even if 4 witnesses were not available rapist could be handed Tazir, which carries maximum of 25 years in prison for married and 10 years for unmarried. And in case of more than 1 person raping, Tazir carried death sentence for offender.
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
Pcgudia, it would be interesting to see what the ulema's have to say about the "test" procedure.
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
Could someone please shed some light on the topic in the light of Quran and sunnah? I see people saying it's different than fornication/adultery, but I don't think anyone has clearly stated what the Islamic policies and requirements are regarding the issue.
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
There are hadith's on the topic sadiyah that apparently show the Prophet giving the dealt penalty to a rapist, and it wasn't after 2 or 3 rapes or based on whether the rapist was married or not, etc.
A rape is a rape. Whether the rapist or the victim are married or not makes no difference.
The Quran - I can't remember correctly, but its either the Quran or a hadith that equates a rape crime with a theft. Except its not treated as a petty theft, like robbing gum from a gas station.
I like how this one poster put in quotations "the test". There's no reason to put it in quotations. Its a medically and scientifically sound test - you look for signs of a struggle and bruises, etc. This tells you the rape was not consentual. Semen samples are taken, hence why rape victims are asked to go to a hospital right away before taking a shower after a rape. Any other forensic evidence found on her body or near the scene of the crime, is also taken for evidence. DNA matches are done, and the victim reports what the person looked like. They draw up a face, and try to match it in the criminal database, or hunt down a similar looking guy.
There's no reason to put it in quotations. Its not some theoretical fantasy - this stuff is done all the time and has done a good job of catching rapists.
I don't see why the ulema should have any reason to reject these methods. I'm sure if one of their own was raped, they would have the same procedures followed.
Its so easy to talk of these things, and then when it happens to you - you demand all the rights in the world as a victim or a relative of a victim, and then the fact that the term "rape" and "adultery" share a similar name "zina" makes no difference to you.
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
^Why don't you post that Hadith here wth sources.
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
PCG, I'm completely in agreement with using medical technology for the purpose. However, in countries like Pakistan and other developing nations such technology might not be easily available.
Therefore, I asked what does a woman has to do in such a situation to prove her innocence and get justice.
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
I would say that the responsibility is on the shoulders of muslims to make sure that technology is available throughout muslim populated areas for the convenience of and safety of muslim women.
Iconoclast - look it up yourself and do a little bit of work.
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
Re: Pakistan Rape Law?
Islam’s basic objective was to produce a new human being, fashioned by higher values stressed by the Qur’an. The Prophet’s main objective was to transform this world entirely. As a supreme teacher and a source of law (the Qur’an describes him as sirajan munirah i.e. a lighted lamp showing light) Prophet did two things: he blended certain tribal or other existing practices with higher Qur’anic morality so that his guidance could become useful for the immediate society he was living in.
Secondly, he also showed, through the Qur’anic revelations, the body of higher and transcendent morality. It is this morality and these values which have permanence and all our actions should be guided by this higher morality. The punishments prescribed by the Qur’an are not the essence of its teachings. Its essence lay in its higher morality. The Prophet gave enough indications of this through his Sunnah also.
The Holy Prophet very well indicated that compassion is far more superior to the punishment. When one person came to him and said that I was sick and a lady came to see me and I could not resist the temptation and did what is strictly forbidden (i.e. had sexual intercourse with the lady). Please punish me. He was quite weak due to his illness and could not have borne the 100 blows. The Prophet took mercy on him specially because he had confessed to his crime and he took 100 branches of palm date tree and gave him one gentle blow (thus fulfilling the need of the Qur’anic punishment of 100 lashes). This show of compassion had much greater impact on him than the100 blows. **
*There is another equally important story in the *hadith literature. A child labour that was underpaid by his employer stole fruit from the employer’s garden and ate. He was caught in the act and was brought to the Prophet by the employer demanding punishment of cutting off his hand. The Prophet made thorough inquiry and came to conclusion that the child was underpaid and suffered pangs of hunger, which led him to steal fruit.
Instead of punishing the child he admonished the employer for underpayment and made it obligatory to him to educate the child and provide proper food to him until he grows up. There are many such examples, which make it clear that punishment per se is not the final objective but the reformation of the offender.
There were certain tribal practices and traditions, which could not be ignored altogether by the Prophet (PBUH) if he were to successfully transform that society morally and spiritually. Also, mere acceptance of Islam by the Arabs did not mean they would automatically or easily leave behind all their acts of omission and commission. Certain acts of crime were rampant – murder, theft, rape and robbery. The society had to be cleaned of these crimes and for that the Prophet used certain institutions of tribal practices like cutting of hands for theft or stoning to death for adultery (there is no such punishment for adultery in the Qur’an at all.
Unfortunately these days enforcing these punishments have become very fundamental to any Muslim country declaring itself to be an Islamic state as if it is main criteria of being an Islamic country. In fact equality and justice are far more important criteria for the purpose. Equality of all human beings, protection of human dignity and ensuring socio-economic justice should be much more fundamental to setting up a state on the principles of Islam. But unfortunately hardly anyone pays any attention to such fundamental teachings of Islam and rulers generally rush to the press to announce that henceforth cutting off of hands for theft and stoning to death for adultery will be enforced.
Punishment of stoning to death for adultery has not been prescribed in the holy Qur’an at all. The Prophet is reported to have prescribed this punishment in some cases but there is debate whether he did so before revelation of the verse of 100 lashes for zina *(rape, fornication and adultery) or after that. There is no conclusive proof that he enforced any such punishment after the revelation of the verse 24:2 *
*In fact stoning to death was prescribed by the Jewish law and the Prophet (PBUH) enforced it in case of a Jew and a Jewess in one case (see Bukhari 23:61), and others apparently occurred before the revelation of the *Surah Nur (i.e. chapter 24). Also, stoning to death is in contradiction to the verse 4:25 wherein punishment for adultery is half for the slave-girls. Stoning to death cannot be made half whereas 100 lashes, as prescribed in 24:2 can be reduced to 50 in case of slave-girls.
It is unfortunate that in many Muslim countries this law (of stoning to death) is being used more against women than men. This punishment can be enforced only either through self-confession or by producing four witnesses. Since no one ever commits adultery in presence of four witnesses, man goes scot free and woman gets punished as in her case her pregnancy becomes proof. However, no one inquires whether she submitted herself willingly to man’s lust or she was raped. **
**In Pakistan a blind girl was raped by her uncle and she became pregnant and was sentenced to death. In case of her uncle it could not be proved by producing four witnesses. In Nigeria too a woman has been sentenced to death similarly and it has become international issue. This totally discriminatory application of law (about whose authenticity also there is doubt) brings bad name to Islam. If Allah desired to prescribe any such punishment He would have prescribed it clearly in the Qur’an. It is not true that the verse on stoning to death was revealed and that it was written on a leaf which was eaten away by a goat. Such statement would enable non-Muslims to raise many questions about the correctness of the Qur’an. When Allah Himself says ‘We are protectors of the Qur’an”, how a goat can eat away one of its verses.
In fact any law should not be understood mechanically. It is also important to understand the philosophy of law, causes of its genesis and intention behind enforcing it. Any law applied mechanically can result in grave injustice. **
**The philosophy of law is to establish a crime-free society by framing laws which will combine elements of punishment and reformation. Punishment can take various forms: by imposing physical pain or through physical confinement. Similarly reforming the criminal can also take various forms – through persuasion, making him undergo certain training or making him see the gravity of his offence, which causes pain to others. Or, one can combine elements of all this along with physical confinement. It will depend on gravity of the offence and individual criminal and extent of his/her crimes. It is for this reason that laws generally provide minimum and maximum punishments. The judge also often takes personal circumstances into account before prescribing the punishment.
Two of the Prophet’s instances given above i.e. a child stealing fruit and a sick man submitting to sexual temptation and confessing to the Prophet clearly prove the wisdom with which the Prophet dealt with these cases. The Prophet did not order cutting off hands of the child who was rather compelled to steal. Our Qadis impose these sentences without exercising such discretion and going into circumstances of the crime.
We should not mechanically imitate the Holy Prophet’s reported sayings or doings without understanding the reasons for which he did something. We also have to take the period, tribal practices, geographical circumstances and available institutions. As long as the purpose of the preventing crime is met the nature of punishment does not matter. Prevention of crime is more fundamental than the nature of punishment. In the enforcement of law in Islamic countries punishment becomes more fundamental than prevention of crime. It is not kept in mind what is the purpose of law, what are the circumstances in which a crime was committed and whether it deserves minimum or maximum punishment.
Today more Muslims live in minority situation in non-Muslim countries than in Muslim countries. They commit all sorts of crimes in non-Muslim countries. They cannot be given hudud punishments. They are dealt with according to the law of the country they live in. That does not mean ends of justice cannot be met in their case. In India very large number of Muslims live, larger than in many Muslim countries. The British rulers had imposed their own secular criminal code in 19th century itself and the ulama had accepted it without any protest. In fact a very prominent ‘*alim* even translated it into Urdu. Since then Indian Criminal Procedure Code is applicable to Muslims as well as non-Muslims in India, all those Muslim who commit crime are punished according to this code. **ah have already been given up long ago without causing any problem. Our ‘ulama should be given thorough training in modern legal system also along with training in Islamic laws. This will enable them to work out a creative synthesis between Islam laws and modern laws within framework of Islamic shari’ah. **
**The Muslim countries should re-think these laws and modify criminal laws wherever necessary so as to ensure the ends of justice are met and crime does not flourish. Even laws of contract and other civil laws prescribed by Shari
**Unfortunately our ‘ulama' do not undergo any such training and are trained only in Islamic jurisprudence, its methods and its philosophy evolved by early Muslim jurists. Earlier our Qadis are trained in modern legal philosophy better it is. It will be a great service to the Islamic world