Very interesting…
Pakistan may consider signing the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) if the world community formally recognises Islamabad as the sixth declared nuclear power, it is learnt. A credible government source in a background interview told The News that Islamabad’s entering into the international treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons as a non-nuclear state is out of question.
How can Pakistan be trusted to abide by any international treaty? First we need to get our house in order before signing international treaties.
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
How can Pakistan be trusted to abide by any international treaty? First we need to get our house in order before signing international treaties.
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Pakis can abide as mush as your master US abides by international treaties... Would you like to see it in text or pictorial format?
Re: Pakistan may sign NPT if declared nuclear power
err err err what do you mean by declared nuclear power? We are a nuclear power… PEROID… Or will we have to drop couple of nukes on innocent civilians like US to prove our might… These treaties are not worth the paper they are written on…
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*Originally posted by Abdali: *
Pakis can abide as mush as your master US abides by international treaties... Would you like to see it in text or pictorial format?
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Yes, blame Musharraf for the crimes of decades of army rule, overtly and covertly. You do realize that the entier world looks down on selling nuclear secrets to anyone with money? Kargil may have been contained with south asia, but this affects everyone. Enough of letting pak army get away with everything.
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Yes, blame Musharraf for the crimes of decades of army rule, overtly and covertly. You do realize that the entier world looks down on selling nuclear secrets to anyone with money? Kargil may have been contained with south asia, but this affects everyone. Enough of letting pak army get away with everything.
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I think we were talking about ** treaties ** now you want to switch to proliferation..... That speaks volumes... you want to talk about proliferation..fair enough... where would you like to start, US/UK/France/USSR/Russia.... pick one.....
BTW Pak is not party to NPT...
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Originally posted by Abdali: *
I think we were talking about * treaties ** now you want to switch to proliferation..... That speaks volumes... you want to talk about proliferation..fair enough... where would you like to start, US/UK/France/USSR/Russia.... pick one.....
BTW Pak is not party to NPT...
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What do you think the NPT deals with if not proliferation? And this deals with the credbility that Pakistan has in today's world. From Kargil to selling nuclear weapons, what credibility does Pakistan have left?
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
What do you think the NPT deals with if not proliferation? And this deals with the credbility that Pakistan has in today's world. From Kargil to selling nuclear weapons, what credibility does Pakistan have left?
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Don't beat around the bush, what do you want to talk about.. Breaking treaties or proliferation? And where do you want to start pick a country.... Shall we say we start with your US master? Pakistan has mush credibility as your US master so don't worry about Pak.
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
How can Pakistan be trusted to abide by any international treaty? First we need to get our house in order before signing international treaties.
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Imdad ji, I do agree with the notion that we do need to put our house in order(no question about it). But, as far as your comment goes about Pakistan's ability of abiding by the international treaty, and I'm assuming you are referring to the latest nuclear debacle. Pakistan has'nt signed NPT(Non Proliferation Treaty, therefore we are under no internatinoal obligation to not supply other countries with nuclear know- how(and thats the legal part only, in simple words no laws were broken). What you have brought up, is IMO, more of an ethical issue. I would also like to mention here that international treaties are abused/broken on a frequent basis by different countries. Kyoto protocol, Geneva convention regarding POW's, pre-emptive strikes are all prime examples.
As far as your comment goes about our credibility goes, we wont have any till we are financially robust, on which we are working on as we post/speak/chat etc.
Good point, ZulfiOKC. Even if Pakistan were to have officially disclosed nuclear knowledge to other states, in doing so it violated no laws, no regulation, no treaties. Pakistan (and India, and Israel) has never waived its sovereign right to disseminate nuclear knowledge and expertise to friendly nations.
Interestingly enough, proliferation of nuclear technology from Israel to South Africa (prior to South Africa dismantling its programme) never attracted quite the same level of controversy as proliferation to Libya and Iran … I wonder why? 
It's obvious why this is getting more attention. Just look at this from the backdrop of 9-11. The real danger is if al qaeda gets nukes, it will use them. No question about it. And who do you think they will trace back the nukes to if not Pakistan? The army has once again put us in great danger. We shouldn't just gloss over the irresponsibility of the army. This can get very serious, very quickly.
^^ the whole idea of 'dirty bombs' or terrorist getting their hands on 'nukes' is absurd.. but it doesn't take much to put more fear into a public already afraid.
Making a bomb is exactly like making kababs that any terrorist could make in a cave with a make shift stove and a handy goat..
Before 9-11, people would say al qaeda destroying WTC is absurd
Before this scandal, people would say pakistan selling nuclear designs and equipment to iran, libya or north korea is absurd
Before the nuclear attack on new york by a stolen pakistani bomb, people would say pakistan being involved in nuclear terrorism is absurd
^ Imdad don't get carried away. Rumors have been rife for the last decade that several Russian nukes and brief case bombs are un accounted for. They are far more likely to be carried into a city. Pakistan has nuclear warheads....heavy bulky things that go on top of missiles. Do you have any idea about whcih kinds of warheads can be mated to which kinds of delivery systems etc? Do you even know how heavy a pakistani nuke would be?
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Before 9-11, people would say al qaeda destroying WTC is absurd
Before this scandal, people would say pakistan selling nuclear designs and equipment to iran, libya or north korea is absurd
Before the nuclear attack on new york by a stolen pakistani bomb, people would say pakistan being involved in nuclear terrorism is absurd
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let's not be so dramatic.. everyone had an idea that an airliner can be hijacked and once it is, it can be used as a weapon.. it has been done by air force pilots short on fuel or on 'suicide' missions and it certainly wasn't 'absurd'.. however some rag tag 'terrorist organization' doing it from their central command in a cave in Afghanistan is definitely 'absurd'.
Everyone realizes how Pakistan's nuclear bomb came into being.. it's very foundation is 'stolen' secrets from another country.. how on earth do u make a weapon like that when everone out there is trying their best to deter you.. Obviously you employ underhand tactics..
and the nuclear attack on New York looks nice on "Threat Matrix" or "24".... we have a DHS in place now.. i'd hold them accountable if something like that were to transpire..
this whole conversation about certain groups acquiring nukes makes me laugh...Although the principles of building an atomic bomb are very simple (howstuffworks.com even has a good article), many things keep an ordinary terrorist from building one. The first is that the mechanics are not all that simple in practice (like most things); it would take competent engineering and manufacturing to get it right (which requires dediated hi-tech manufacturing units, which i doubt exist any cave in the world) . The second is that the materials are very difficult to obtain.
its easy to say that the matirial can be acquired from any former Russian state, but practically its impossible, even if they get their hands on the material, its not kids stuff to come up with the final fully functional bomb in any cave or any "MOBILE LAB", keeping in mind that the whole world is working against you and looking for the clues which lead agencies.
Leaking Nuclear knowledge to Al-Qaeeda.... give me a break, you can find all these information from any good University, and if you have degree or post graduation in nuclear physics then you don't have to.. and I don't think there is any restictions for any one to get a degree in it. the reason why Nuclear Technology is a taboo in third world countries like India and Pakistan is the lake adequate academic infra structure, and of course required industrial excellence. It took Pakistan about ten years to acheive that level of excellence in nuclear technology, with US backing ofcourse (as pakistan was busy in Afghanistan, taking care of us interests)... I think I made my point clear that with all support it took 10 years to achieve that level, how on earth Al-Qaeeda can achieve the same in just 3 years!! (keeping in mind that almost all countries in the world are working against them)
the only way they can achieve it, is when some DH sitting in his Oval office decides to leak a fully functional nuke to them from any other country, for his political interests of course.
Ok, I hope you all are correct, but I for one feel betrayed by the army rulers. They have lied to us on so many things, that I simply cannot take their word on anything anymore. Not that I was a great army supporter before, but this just is the last straw on the camels back.