does both have something in common ? only two countries based on religen.
“In the case of Pakistan, the issue of Kashmir overshadows every other national and social issue, including that of illiteracy, which is perhaps the greatest barrier to Pakistan’s democratization and economic development,” he observes.
“Needless to say, Israel pays for its stubbornness with much the same currency,” he writes.
Both countries created in the name of religion but with ideologies and ways of doing things far apart!
Firstly there is no Israel, it is occupied Palestine! Secondly, the so called Israel is killing innocent civilians everyday and occupying more and more land while settling Jews from all over the world in a land not theirs. Pakistan is struggling based on principles. Israel defies all international laws and norms whereas Pakistan is simply asking for a plebicite according to UN resolutions.
To me, India seems more close in policies to so called Israel, than Pakistan.
(I do not hate India and its people, but the BJP agenda)
PAkistan and israel india and kashmir just to name a few was created by the British and there map makers who had a pencil and slide rule and started creating bits of land and they deliberatly created problems like kashmir to keep the people at each others throats!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
PAkistan and israel india and kashmir just to name a few was created by the British and there map makers who had a pencil and slide rule and started creating bits of land and they deliberatly created problems like kashmir to keep the people at each others throats!
[/QUOTE]
So now youre against the creation of Pakistan too?
are you actually reading what people write in their posts!
Sometime, one wonders why did god give us this beautiful planet, religion and brain????
Well I think both have a lot in common. I cannot understand how any Pakistani cannot accept the existence of Israel. Both countries were new countries created by the British by dividing parts of their empire on the basis of religion alone. If you agree with the principle behind the creation of Pakistan, (which I do), then you have to accept the creation of Israel too as Palestine had a large majority of Jews at that time (after WWII). The original plan was to give a homeland to the muslims but it was the Jordanians (muslims) that conspired to take over the muslim land !!
I do not agree with most of the policies of Israel since it's creation but then you have to remember it is a country surrounded by enemies so it has to act in self-defence. Pakistan too is surrounded in enemies (India, Afghanistan and Iran) but at least all those have accepted Pakistan's existence. Israel actually took all the occupied land in a war which almost makes it legitimate as they are still at war with their neighbours.
depends wat u call war?... paletinians have no weapons to defend themselves.. and land is being stolen day by day... with paletinians have no say in the policy.
incase of pakistan, it is still at war also... but the difference between isreal and pakistan is that pakistan has weapons to keep indians on their side of border.. if we didnt have nuclear.. we would be in great threat...
also isreal is a holy land. So thats y having just one religion control that land is not acceptable
it is said in scriptures that jews will again gather in isreal, like they did with abrahim and moses..thats wen dajal will become their false massia
pakistan and isreal is same only in context of wat they were made under which banner. but pakistan is no holyland, and so the neighbours have nothing against their religion. if gunga was in pakistan.. then it will become an issue.. and probably war would have been possible,
where as in isreals context.. it has the worlds 3 religions land there.
so isreal will not be accepted as the only one religion controling the area.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khattana: *
Palestine had a large majority of Jews at that time (after WWII).
[/QUOTE]
Could you please prove your argument with figures. It is not true that Jews were in majority in 1948 in Palestine. The Muslims were 80% of the total population there. It was in the following years that Jews were brought from all over the world to illegal settlements and land was snatched from Muslims.
The demographics were forcibly changed, but Justice and truth will prevail. No country is baseless as is Israel. It is an illegal occupation which is bound to end some day. Israelis are sitting on a time bomb!
The Status of Israel:
The case of Israel is altogether different from other countries.
The Palestinian land was not the original habitat of Israelis, who entered it 1,300 years BC and occupied it after battles for 200 years. They were twice moved out of the land. Romans expelled them completely from Palestine in 135 AD. In the history of 6,000 years, Israelis’ stay was just about four to five hundred years in the Northern Palestine, and about eight to nine hundred years in the South; whereas Arabs have been living for 2,500 years in the Northern and for 2,000 years in the Southern areas.
Zionists base their claim on the Palestinian land in a so-called Divine pledge in the Bible. This is no more than a myth, at the most. On the basis of this make-believe, imaginary right, Europe’s rich and politically ambitious Jew leadership launched a Zionist movement towards the end of the 19th century. With temptation, oppression and suppression, political maneuvering and colonialist designs, and by pitching Arabs and Turks against each other, they got foothold in this land during the times of British mandate. Thus, the goal of establishing a Jewish state of Israel was realized apparently under a UN General Assembly resolution on 14 May 1948, but in reality by the use force and military might and Palestinians’ forceful expulsion and genocide. Arther Koestler, a Jew intellectual and writer, was enamored in his youth by Zionism and left his home in Germany to move to Jewish settlements (kibbutz). But when he witnessed the cruelty meted out to Palestinians, he summed up the whole tragic episode:
One nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third nation” (Arther Koestles, Promise and fulfillment, London, 1949, P-4
In 1914, there were just 3,000 Jew families living in Palestine and there number could only reach 56,000 in spite of large-scale emigration of Jews to Palestine after the First World War, whereas there were 644,000 Palestinian Arabs at that time. When Israel was given the form of a State with the use of force, bloodshed and oppression, Jews held just 5.6 percent of the Palestinian land and barely constituted 33 percent of Palestine’s population. It is worth mentioning here that the Jew population had increased ten-fold as Jews from 80 countries of the world had been settled here for over a period of 30 years while Palestinians were being expelled and their towns were being destroyed!
Through the UN resolution, 56 percent of the Palestinian land was presented to Jews on a platter while the remaining 44 percent was sanctioned to the independent State of Palestine. However, Israel’s extremist groups occupied 78 percent of the land when it was still the year 1948, followed by occupation of what remained of Palestine, including Eastern Jerusalem, in 1967.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by cheebu: *
pakistan and isreal is same only in context of wat they were made under which banner. but pakistan is no holyland, and so the neighbours have nothing against their religion. if gunga was in pakistan.. then it will become an issue.. and probably war would have been possible,
[/QUOTE]
Well Pakistan is holy land for the Sikhs and to some extent the Buddhists. so does that mean it should not exist??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *
Could you please prove your argument with figures. It is not true that Jews were in majority in 1948 in Palestine. The Muslims were 80% of the total population there. It was in the following years that Jews were brought from all over the world to illegal settlements and land was snatched from Muslims.
The demographics were forcibly changed, but Justice and truth will prevail. No country is baseless as is Israel. It is an illegal occupation which is bound to end some day. Israelis are sitting on a time bomb!
[/QUOTE]
Yes it is true that there was a mass movement of jews to Israel after WWI & WWII. But then there were no muslims in India before 700AD. does that mean that all the muslims should go back to Arabia? In Israel's case, over half a century has gone by so it is too late now- nobody is going anywhere. The demographics in Pakistan were forcibly changed too in '47. Are you also saying that all hindus and Sikhs expelled from Punjab should now return?
Give me a break! You mean that thousands of Arab Muslims migrated to the present day Pakistan and occupied it???!!!
The Muslims you see in the Sub-Continent today are mostly local people who adopted Islam as their way of life.
We didn't come from outside, we are Muslims from this very area.
exactly... are u tryin to say that arabs migrated to India..lolzzz
mate... u need to get ur facts right... who are the mughals that created the taaj mahal and all other fortresses u praise as indias tourism.. they were south asians.. not arabs!.
hindus at that time themselves reverted to islam.. not arabs invading to increase the muslim population.. unlike isreal.
anyway.. who said tthat sikhs are forced out of pak.. they are still living their.. and their gurdwara are still alive. hindus are also living in pak.. they chose to move to india at the time of partistion.
again.. their is no comparison between isreals illegal expansion and pakistan.
and yeah.. in pak.. everyone is freely to practice their religion.. may it be.. muslims, christians, sikhs or hindus..
Allah hafiz
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by cheebu: *
and yeah.. in pak.. everyone is freely to practice their religion.. may it be.. muslims, christians, sikhs or hindus..
Allah hafiz
[/QUOTE]
then how do you explain non-muslim population dropping from some 18% after partition to < 5% now? [don't ask me where i got these numbers from - reat that somewhere but don't remember where]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
then how do you explain non-muslim population dropping from some 18% after partition to < 5% now? [don't ask me where i got these numbers from - reat that somewhere but don't remember where]
[/QUOTE]
your comparing in %.. so it doesnot matter.. since the birth rate of muslims is far higher then other religions. so u cannot judge on that and say.. that mulims are oppressing...
secoundly.. there could be chances tat they are becomin muslim.. well ull disagree straight away.. but wat can i say.. oppinion is oppinion
Allah hafiz