Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

do you live in pakistan, I don't live in india either nor did i grow up there, but i wish for the best to happen in south asia, yes for both countries b/c do you know how unbelievably annoying it is to be south asian and to have south asia seen as one of the most dangerous places to live or visit, both countries are in this little bubble.

have you ever taken a look at ajk's constitution? i never really realized how much it's not 'azad' it fooled me into thinking so though. it's all about kashmir banegay pakistan and that's how it's written. when almost 90% of ajk's governing body is made up of pakistanis or chosen by the prime minister or president of pakistan, how exactly is it azad? both countries are playing little games with the residents of j&k and ajk, that's why stop with the fooling and move on to progress with something like this. the average pakistani or indian probably doesn't get affected by this venture much now, but in the long run it will bring so much peace and progress, or atleast i'm hoping it will. that's not being naive, it's called having foresight

Nisha, you can talk all you want on the AJK consistution, and Pakistan has much to be critisized for, but if you havent noticed, most of the protests are on your side. Most of the Human rights violations have occured on your side. Have you ever been to AJK? Compare AJK to Occupied Kashmir and you tell me. Its crawling with your security. Im not saying Pakistan is innocent, the Pakistani establishment is full of hypocrits and liars, but lets be honest with ourselvs, the issue really is on the Indian side. Now you can blame this all on infiltration from the Pak side, but at the end of the day, you know as well as I that this has all to do wiith Indias own flawed policy, which has denied the Kashmiri people their genuine rights since independance.

That being said, im a realist, I dont believe the Kashmir issue is beyond solution. But before we can move on with normalizing relations as pertins to trade, we have to resolve the bigger issues first. I dont even think its possible to normalize relations on other fronts without normalizing the situation in Kashmir first, because as we have seen, whenever there is any imporvment of any kind, Kashmir alwasy acts as the great anchor holding everything hostage.

Foresight has its basis in being able to understand ground reality. Foresight without a grounding in actual reality is delusion. You seem to trust the intentions of your home country, and I understand that, but cant expect others to do the same. To many Pakistanis this seems nothing more then an underhanded way of forcing Pakistanis to capitulate on the longstanding issues dividing the countries.

[Nisha25]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

***The constitution of Azad Kashmir poses major impediments towards genuine democracy as it bars all those parties and individuals from participating in the political process who do not support the idea of

Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan and hence precludes all those who are in favor of Kashmiri independence. To fail to support, or fail to appear to support Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan means to invite the ire of Pakistan’s abusive intelligence agencies and its military. It also entails inviting political persecution, such as ineligibility to contest elections or to seek employment with any government institution, or the curtailing of basic freedom of expression. (These
issues are explored in more detail in Chapters IV and V, below.)***
http://www.kashmiri.info/index2.php?.._pdf=1&id=1050

let me look for the actual constitution of ajk though

Freedom of association.- (1) Subject to this Act, every State subject
shall have the right to form association or unions, subject to any reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interest of morality or public order.
(2) No person or political party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the State’s accession to Pakistan

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2505469/AJ…4-by-Asif-Raja

protests don’t happen b/c if somebody was to to lead these protests, god knows what would happen to them or what has happened to them in ajk. when the constitution itself says this then what type of freedom do the people there have. it’s either follow the ideology of the state’s accession to pakistan or face the military’s and intelligence agency’s legal right to take care of things. there have been cases in the human rights watch site from ajk too.

this issue will go on forever, i don’t see either side giving up it’s right over the region since looking at the constitution of ajk, i don’t even think it’s fair to the indian side of j&k or india.

[indik]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

LOOONNNGG stupid rants arent going to bring peace to the world.

If you really believe in peace, then stop pretending to be a peaceful nation, and actually pursue peace actively and in earnest, with genuine sincerity.

The world knows your commiting terrorism in Kashmir, Kashmiris themselves want you out, so why are you still barking? Your not fooling anyone. Just get out of Kashmir, its not yours to occupy.

keep your stupidity of barking and braying to yourself , i do not want to indulge in bad language so pl.

india is a peaceful country ,it does not host world’s top most terrorists in its boundry, if anybody tries to do mischeaf they are promptly dealt with in no time ,no kashmiri wants to separate only paid terrorists from pakistan try to disturb (as they have been caught doing in many countries ) peace of india, kashmir is being governed by duly elected government and a popular chief minister. so pakistanis are requested to stay away and mind their own country which is almost on the verge of civil war.

[mental911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

No, betterment doesnt depend on better relations with India it depends on better governance at home.

Pakistan can have integrity and honor, without selling themselves to India and compromising on principle.

Where is the honor for being saudi camel jockey, amrikan pay as you use hore or now, most likely a chinese concubine?
The PA and their lotas keeps the "india enemy #1" narrative alive, so that they can milk the country and also run a company to produce cereal to go with the milk! :D

[javedmiandad]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

why would indian products dominate though, wouldn't that make pakistani companies work harder in making their product just as good and affordable so in the long run it would be good for the average pakistani or indian consumer b/c they would end up getting good quality products(pakistani or indian depending on which price is more affordable)at the best prices. it would be a win win. why can't both countries build each other up and focus on their own infrastructure and economy at the same time.

like i said before i have no problem with trading with neighbors but have to be wary of one dominating the other market so some controls should be in place.

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

Bark bark bark.

Listen, someone has to inform you of the mass murder being commited in Indian occupied Kashmir. If you dont have a enough sense to do your own research its not my fault.

India is host to an Army that terrorizes and entire people. Dont sound like a peaceful country to me. Sounds like a country that is either lying or deluded...

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

@mental911

Where is the honor for being saudi camel jockey, amrikan pay as you use hore or now, most likely a chinese concubine?
The PA and their lotas keeps the “india enemy #1” narrative alive, so that they can milk the country and also run a company to produce cereal to go with the milk!

LOL… Last I checked, its mostly Indians enslaving themselves in DUBAI and other Arabs for pennies a day. Your brown rears are the Arabs play things..
Fun quote from : http://www.ndtv.com/news/diaspora/mideast_indian_workers_complain_of_ill_treatment.php
“They did not give us food, water, no salary for months. There was no electricity in the hostel. We did not get rice, just these dry rotis,” said one of the workers. When the workers complained and struck work for three months they were deported back to India and that too without being paid a month’s salary.

And I would rather befriend Americans and Arabs then Indians..

Now go back to milking your cow.

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

@Nisha25

***The constitution of Azad Kashmir poses major impediments towards genuine democracy as it bars all those parties and individuals from participating in the political process who do not support the idea of

Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan and hence precludes all those who are in favor of Kashmiri independence. To fail to support, or fail to appear to support Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan means to invite the ire of Pakistan’s abusive intelligence agencies and its military. It also entails inviting political persecution, such as ineligibility to contest elections or to seek employment with any government institution, or the curtailing of basic freedom of expression. (These
issues are explored in more detail in Chapters IV and V, below.)***
http://www.kashmiri.info/index2.php?.._pdf=1&id=1050

let me look for the actual constitution of ajk though

Freedom of association.- (1) Subject to this Act, every State subject
shall have the right to form association or unions, subject to any reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interest of morality or public order.
(2) No person or political party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the State’s accession to Pakistan

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2505469/AJ…4-by-Asif-Raja

protests don’t happen b/c if somebody was to to lead these protests, god knows what would happen to them or what has happened to them in ajk. when the constitution itself says this then what type of freedom do the people there have. it’s either follow the ideology of the state’s accession to pakistan or face the military’s and intelligence agency’s legal right to take care of things. there have been cases in the human rights watch site from ajk too.

this issue will go on forever, i don’t see either side giving up it’s right over the region since looking at the constitution of ajk, i don’t even think it’s fair to the indian side of j&k or india.

Protests dont happen because there is nothing to protest.

Your fooling yourself Nisha. People who are fed up and angry are fearless in protest. Look at Libya, look at Egypt, look at Syria and Bharian. Hell look at Indian occupied Kashmir! When your forces were using LIVE ammunition and people eve dying of being hit with tear gas canisters, they were still out in protest.

The reason Azad Kashmirs arent protesting is because unlike in Indian occupied Kashmir, they arent disappearing in police custody, women arent raped and murdered, people dont die in encounters, and their are no mass graves.

People in Indian occupied Kashmir protest because they have a reason to, despite the odds, and the dangers of being killed bu Indian forces.

In Occupied Kashmir they are struggling against state oppresion and state terrorism and denial of human rights. In Azad Kashmir I doubt half the people even kow they have a constitution, and if they do I doubt anyone knows what it says. So the constitution and its content are far from their minds, to the point of being nearly irrelevant in their day to day issues. Indian occupation however is a constant presence in the lives of Occupied Kashmiris, who are reminded daily that they are not free by the soldiers who roam their streets.

[babloos]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

Nisha, you can talk all you want on the AJK consistution, and Pakistan has much to be critisized for, but if you havent noticed, most of the protests are on your side. Most of the Human rights violations have occured on your side. Have you ever been to AJK? Compare AJK to Occupied Kashmir and you tell me. Its crawling with your security. Im not saying Pakistan is innocent, the Pakistani establishment is full of hypocrits and liars, but lets be honest with ourselvs, the issue really is on the Indian side. Now you can blame this all on infiltration from the Pak side, but at the end of the day, you know as well as I that this has all to do wiith Indias own flawed policy, which has denied the Kashmiri people their genuine rights since independance.

That being said, im a realist, I dont believe the Kashmir issue is beyond solution. But before we can move on with normalizing relations as pertins to trade, we have to resolve the bigger issues first. I dont even think its possible to normalize relations on other fronts without normalizing the situation in Kashmir first, because as we have seen, whenever there is any imporvment of any kind, Kashmir alwasy acts as the great anchor holding everything hostage.

Foresight has its basis in being able to understand ground reality. Foresight without a grounding in actual reality is delusion. You seem to trust the intentions of your home country, and I understand that, but cant expect others to do the same. To many Pakistanis this seems nothing more then an underhanded way of forcing Pakistanis to capitulate on the longstanding issues dividing the countries.

finally some sensible post :)

let me tell you something,there is equally human violation in balochistan,tribal areas, I have really seen distrubing grave yards just as you might have on kashmir,look at the position your country is in,why don't win trust your own people in baloch/fata e.t.c days are gone when valley use to look upto pakistan same can be said for indian muslims,its your own monster created for kashmir uprising is causing all the havoc in pakistan,other day I was reading people were so poor in valley,theyPget paid 300 rupees each for stone pelting from hurriyat,do you think solders on indian side are devils,tocommit all the evil,check other side of the coin,if it isn't for all the uprising therewould have been huge investments in all the sectors ,it industry would have loved to be in that place

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

Exzmple of Indian terrorism:

Dirt, rubble, thick grass, hillside and flatland, crowded with graves. Signifiers of military and paramilitary terror, masked from the world. Constructed by institutions of state to conceal massacre. Placed next to homes, fields, schools, an army practice range. Unknown, unmarked. Over 940 graves in a segment of Baramulla district alone. Some containing more than one cadaver. Dug by locals, coerced by the police, on village land. Bodies dragged through the night, some tortured, burnt, desecrated. Circulating mythology claims these graves uniformly house ‘foreign militants’. Exhumation and identification have not occurred in most cases. When undertaken, in sizable instances, records prove the dead to be local people, ordinary citizens, killed in fake encounters. In instances where bodies have been identified as local, non-militant and militant, it demystifies state rhetoric that rumours these persons to be ‘foreign militants’, propagating misrepresentation that the demand for self-determination is prevailingly external. Mourned, cared for, by locals, as ‘farz’/duty, as part of an obligation, stated repeatedly, to ‘azadi’. ‘Azadi’/freedom to determine self and future.

http://www.frontlinekashmir.org/2011/04/mass-graves-in-kashmir.html

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

@babloos

let me tell you something,there is equally human violation in baluchistan,tribal areas, I have really seen distrubing grave yards just as you might have,

Really! How insightful...

Where Pakistan is guilty, Pakistan should be held accountable. If that means losing these territories then so be it. But that, unlike Kashmir, is entirely Pakistans internal matter, which I sincerely hope is resolved. Kashmir on the other hand is a international issue. Notice how we only cite occupied Kashmir and not your other human rights violations in other parts, since those are entirely Indian issues.
And whether you like it or not, trying to distract by pointing to Baloch, will not absolve you of your nations crimes.

But that doesn't change the facts in Kashmir, and we should not accept any resolution that means we compromise there. Pakistans govt may have much to answer for, but atleast they have some decency left. Trading with India would mean legitimizing Indias occupation and dismissing their crimes.

And no. The Kashmir uprising is due entirely to Indian incompetence and arrogance. Right there your credibility has sunk to zero.
Only a fool would ever dismiss facts and claim the atrocities commited by YOUR Indian soldiers and YOUR govt is anyone elses fault but yours.

At the end of the day, at least we have enough sense to openly criticize our govt for its failings. You Indians shamelssly give blanket cover to any attrocity your Army commits without any regard for human dignity or life. I mean seriously, is Shuram even a word in India?

Oh and yes, I do think your soldiers are devils. They are an occupation army entrusted with putting down all sentiments that run counter to India.

[indik]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

@Med911

Listen, someone has to inform you of the mass murder being commited in Indian occupied Kashmir. If you dont have a enough sense to do your own research its not my fault.

India is host to an Army that terrorizes and entire people. Dont sound like a peaceful country to me. Sounds like a country that is either lying or deluded...

then why are you sitting pretty in amerika enjoying some pizza burger on american dollar aid . be a jehadi and show your jehad to amerika or come to your beloved kashmir

[indik]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

@Med911

LOL… Last I checked, its mostly Indians enslaving themselves in DUBAI and other Arabs for pennies a day. Your brown rears are the Arabs play things..
Fun quote from : http://www.ndtv.com/news/diaspora/mideast_indian_workers_complain_of_ill_treatment.php
“They did not give us food, water, no salary for months. There was no electricity in the hostel. We did not get rice, just these dry rotis,” said one of the workers. When the workers complained and struck work for three months they were deported back to India and that too without being paid a month’s salary.

And I would rather befriend Americans and Arabs then Indians..

Now go back to milking your cow.

tell the whole world what americans are doing with your black/white(europeans dont consider you white which you desire) rear because you are in america for the same reason why poor labours from pakistan and bangladesh india go soudy arabia ,i.e. for do wakt ki roti , we dont want pakistanis like you to be freinds of indians we dont need it and amerikans dont trust you because of double faced character , by the way pakistanis do not introduce themselves as pakistani they introduce them as indians . agar sharm aati ho to suicide bombers ban kar mar jao.

[mo293]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

@indik

by the way pakistanis do not introduce themselves as pakistani they introduce them as indians .

I don’t think any sane human will pass of as Indian, I suggest you Indians wake up and smell foldgers.

Bogus trend story of the week: Pakistani-Americans masquerading as Indians.

Bogus Trend Story of the Week
Reuters claims that Pakistani-Americans are masquerading as Indians.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Tuesday, May 11, 2010, at 4:33 PM ET

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

I like watching cattle mate.

Your personal life is your business.

Aghar sharam athi hai tho ghanga meh ja kur doob jao.

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

I use cow urine as aftershave

We dont care...

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

@mo293

I don’t think any sane human will pass of as Indian, I suggest you Indians wake up and smell foldgers.

Bogus trend story of the week: Pakistani-Americans masquerading as Indians.

Bogus Trend Story of the Week
Reuters claims that Pakistani-Americans are masquerading as Indians.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Tuesday, May 11, 2010, at 4:33 PM ET

Dude dont feed this disgusting troll..

He is the reason Indra Ghandi tried to get Indian men castrated. Except indiks father apparently didnt want a radio in exchange…

[Sachaydino]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

@javemiandad

But in the capitalist market what usually happens is a dominant nation like india can flood the pakistani market with its goods which is usually cheaper and this will result in the pakistan consumer becoming reliant on indian goods and then they can charge any price they want.

Isn't China dominated the Pakistani markets in consumer goods? Do you know how much is the trade deficit with China? Flooding Indian goods in Chinese dominated market will create competition, prices will favour the consumers. I have always been supporter of free trade agreement with India like NAFTA or EU. Pakistani goods have good export market in India, Russia, Eastern Europe, Westeren Europe, America, Canada and Middle East. There will hardly be trade deficit between the two countries. Infact Pakistani goods have to improve its quality and price to compete with Indian and Chinese products.

[Med911]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

Isn't China dominated the Pakistani markets in consumer goods? Do you know how much is the trade deficit with China? Flooding Indian goods in Chinese dominated market will create competition, prices will favour the consumers. I have always been supporter of free trade agreement with India like NAFTA or EU. Pakistani goods have good export market in India, Russia, Eastern Europe, Westeren Europe, America, Canada and Middle East. There will hardly be trade deficit between the two countries. Infact Pakistani goods have to improve its quality and price to compete with Indian and Chinese products.

Yeah, but in the case of China, we have no unresolved bilateral issues. With India we do, and unless those things are resolved, Pakistanis would do better exporting and importing to other markets first.

[La_Parisienne]

Re: Pakistan, India develop roadmap to boost trade

what does China need from Pakistan? (not baiting, just asking for info).

Mind you, they will buy things that they they don't make, or you make a lot better or cheaper.

You have to put aside politics and ideology to progress in economics. For example, did you know China is supplying large numbers of metro-trains to India and in turn buying ore, plastics, oil seed etc. Because they are more advanced in engineered goods and we are more advanced in commodities, composites and component manufacture.