Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
Alhamdulilallah.
God bless the economic policies of President Musharaf and his govt. :k:
God Bless Pakistan. 
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
^ you mean more you export stronger your currency becomes? For imports you have to pay mostly in foreign exchange which you have buy or acquire paying market rates for the country
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
the more you export, the more your currency gets devalued as u would like to make more money out of your exports.
Yes...when that foreign exchange is bought(usually dollar), you would like to put less amount of rupee for one dollar. i don't know why i said strengthning of any currency as something positive. It has its own advantages and disadvantages. But under present circumstances it should be allowed to appreciate against dollar to some level.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
the more you export, the more your currency gets devalued as u would like to make more money out of your exports.
I don't think that is correct, China keeps its currently artificially devalued to support more exports...
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
I don't think that is correct, China keeps its currently artificially devalued to support more exports...
I told the same. More exports mean more devaluation of that country's currency, whether it is artificially induced or by market forces.
China devalues its currency below the correct level, so that their goods become more cheaper(in the eyes of foreign merchants).
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
I told the same. More exports mean more devaluation of that country's currency, whether it is artificially induced or by market forces.
I think there is a difference between "artificially" and "market force", the purpose of "artificial" devaluation is to keep it from getting stronger which shows that currencies tend to become stronger with more exports.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
http://www.pakistaneconomist.com/issue2001/issue10/f&m2.htm
Devaluation of a currency was a matter of prestige in the past. However with the lapse of time it has been learnt that such an operation is sometime necessary to save the country from economic hardships.
Devaluation of a currency has become very common in the present age. Countries facing financial strains due to unfavourable economic conditions have no alternative but to devalue its currency so as to push up its exports earnings and simultaneously to decrease imports. Such countries usually officially decrease the value of their currency in relation to gold as well as other foreign currencies
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
^ mere bhai mai bhee to yahi kah raha hoon, China is devaluing its currency to push exports... however if 'artificial' means of devaluing are removed the currency will become stronger.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
^ mere bhai mai bhee to yahi kah raha hoon, China is devaluing its currency to push exports... however if 'artificial' means of devaluing are removed the currency will become stronger.
captain sahab. Why should it become stronger?..won't exporters ask for more rupee for every dollar they earn?..
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
However if fiscal deficit of the government is widening with every year, it only means that government is not good in administering things.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
captain sahab. Why should it become stronger?..won't exporters ask for more rupee for every dollar they earn?..
Let me try to explain what I understand why currency devalues on more imports rather than exports:
Lets take US dollar for instance. If US imports more items, handing out more dollars to sellers which means more dollars in hands of other countries. If other countries don't have means to spend it anywhere (little or no exports from US) the value of dollar will decline.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
And if the dollar is losing it value against major currencies of the world???
If dollar is losing (or gaining) its value against major world currencies still it should not affect Pakistan (a lot). Around 90 percent of Pakistani foreign debts are in dollars and thus interest and amortisation of Pakistani foreign debts would be in dollars, something that Pakistan have to pay every year on foreign loans taken by corrupt governments before 1999. Whatever happens to dollars in world market, this payment stays in dollars.
[Present government has not increased dollar debts at all. Pak foreign debts was around 38 billion dollars in 1999, and it is same today. Actually, Musharraf government has paid around $30 billion dollars in interest during last 8 years on loans taken before 1999. Further, Pakistan government may have paid around $20 billion dollars of debts. Nevertheless, governments has also borrowed around $20 billion dollars new loans (replaced many high interest past loans with low interest loans). What I believe, today Pakistan is paying around 2 billion dollars interest on 38 billion dollars debt, when in past similar amount ($38 billion dollar present debt) use to cost around $4 billion interest.
Further (dollar dependency): Most remittances, FDI (Foreign direct investments), trade, reserves, and external services are all valued in dollars. So, yes … regardless of whatever happens to dollar value with respect to other world major currencies, the effect on Pakistan macro economy would be very little (that does not mean zero effect, but it means minimal effect) as long as Pakistan dollar to rupee exchange rate stay stable. If Rupees would appreciate with respect to dollar, than that would decrease Pakistan exports, increase imports, reduce FDI and would reduce remittances. Only advantage would be lower inflation and lower loan interest repayment (that in last 8 years has gone down a lot).
Pakistani economy is not tied with US dollar alone I believe.
Well, Pakistan Micro economy is tied to rupees and Pakistani industrial development, growth and hard work.
Nevertheless, Pakistan as well as most world macro economies are tied to dollars, that includes most European countries, OPEC countries, China, India, Japan, South East Asia, Africa, Canada … well almost all world counties (and it will stay tied as long as dollar would stay main world trading currency).
And some ignorants believe that rising KSE shows strength of economy, it shows stability of an economy.
Brother, it is fact that ‘rising KSE’ shows ‘strength and stability’ of the economy. I could go into details why, but I believe that those that have predetermined ideas do not care why?
Anyhow, I would only like to ask you that if you believe I am wrong than just give name of ONE Country during any period in their history, where Stock Market of that country was ‘booming’ and country’s economy was badly performing. Where country’s economy was weak but Stock market of that country was very strong.
[KSE has increased 1200 percent or 12 times during last 8 years, from less than 1200 in 1999 to 14485 today. Overall, KSE is the best performing stock market during last 8 years, anywhere in the world].
On the other hand tell me name of ONE Country during any period in their history, where Stock market of that country was doing bad or stagnant, but country was economically booming. Where country’s economy was strong and stable and stock market was feeble.
If you can do that, I would greatly appreciate as that would increase my knowledge and would make me shed my misguided information. I would also stop believing and would start arguing that stock markets are not criteria to check how countries economy is doing, and would use what you would tell me as reference.
[Note: Stock Market may go up and down in both strong and weak economy, but that would be short term loss or gain (or recovery), not long term gain … for instance, substantial gains over six months or year.]
Wow, so growth of economy can be 7 percent and inflation lets say 9% you think we are gonna be fine? Don't you think commodity prices will be away from more and more wallets?
No! If inflation is 9 percent and growth is 7 percent, than prices of goods and services would not be away from people’s wallets. Actually, it is world accepted fact that whatever the distribution of wealth in a country, growth in economy is the only way to reduce poverty. Inflation does not matter. Nevertheless, Pakistan average inflation in last 8 years is lower than average inflation of Bhutto period ‘1971-1977’ (Pakistan had highest ever inflation during that period), Zia period ‘1977-1988’ or Corrupts period ‘1988-1999’.
I have a feeling that in your mind 7 percent growth and 9 percent inflation means people income increasing by 7 percent and prices increasing by 9 percent. If that is what you are thinking than you have misunderstood the economy and its terms.
Actually when economy grows by 7 percent and there is 9 percent inflation, it means that total economy has grown by 16.63 percent. That means average income of people increased by 16.63 percent and average prices increased by 9 percent. It also means that an average person that could have bought 100 units of certain goods a year ago could now buy 107 units of same goods (even though average price of goods have gone up by 9 percent).
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
Sa1eem: In India, Pakistan and a host of other developing countries, the economy may be rising, but the sad fact is that mostly the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer.
Even though stock exchange may be increasing, the rich (and some middle class) are only gaining from this, for the poor it means nothing.
For the poor, inflation is crippling - their income remains the same but prices keep rising.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
Since President Musharaf became leader and saved Pakistan, the minimum wage in Pakistan has gone up from around Rs 1200 – Rs 1300 a month in 1999 to Rs 4600 a month today (increase of over 350 percent).
God Bless President Musharaf. God Bless Pakistan. God Bless the unprecedented economic growth that Pakistan has been seeing over the past 8 years.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
Sa1eem: In India, Pakistan and a host of other developing countries, the economy may be rising, but the sad fact is that mostly the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer.
Even though stock exchange may be increasing, the rich (and some middle class) are only gaining from this, for the poor it means nothing.
For the poor, inflation is crippling - their income remains the same but prices keep rising.
My experience is this is only partly true. Income for poor people is also going up but not as fast as for others. Ofcourse it may be different in different parts of the country. Our family and friends in Chennai, Bangalore and Mumbai - we are paying some 15 times what we used to pay for servants and drivers and garden workers etc (compared to just 6 or 7 years ago). Now, how prices gone up 15 times in same period? I don't thinks so.
Even in villages and small towns of Tamil Nadu (I don't know about villages in other states) I can tell you for sure this: the poor actually have gained a lot more there than the poor in big cities. This is partly because wages have quadrupled in just 5 years plus government is giving free education, bicycles, electricity connection etc. Ofcourse all this is for votes but it is being done (granted with lot of corruption - someone has to make those free bicycles and tv sets!). small farmers are getting free seeds and very subsidised manure & fertilizer etc. this is because they have a strong cooperative organization. Plus you will not believe this but the two big parties in Tamil Nadu are fighting each other constantly to increase procurement and prices for village farmers.
All I am saying is, it has become a fashion to say 'rich is getting richer and poor poorer' but what I am seeing is "rich get richer, poor get richer - a bit slower".
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
May I ask what kind of industrial boom we are having? What industries are being setup/qualified which will help in exports?
I am confused as well!
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
I am not an economist but I hear there are more people committing suicides than ever. All this fancy economic talk aside what about the facts on ground? Can someone explain and quantify in economic terms like when economy grows at 7%, inflation at 9% suicides will go up by 12% or something like this. Or when we create industrial zones in Punjab we will have 10% more jump off the minar -e - Pakistan or a father who could not buy Eid cloths for his kids and kill them and himself (Todays ejang.jang.com.pk report).
Sorry to be negative but that is what I read in the papers and get really upset at all this facy smancy Salman Shah econ 101 pie in the sky talk . Get real! Unless there is clean water to drink for everyone or at least big cities like Karachi, Ata to cook roti, Electricity for students to prepare for examinations please don't tell me all the darn progress because it is useless and only for top 10% pfthe population.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
That is true brother :). Well, you forget Chief Justice and other judges. Their salary has gone up by around 6.7 times during last 9 years. Chief Justice was getting around Rs 20000 a month plus modest facilities and modest pension in 1998 and today in 2007 Chief Justice is getting Rs 134000 a month plus substantial other facilities and generous pension, that would last years after his death. All because today Pakistan has economically grown enough that it is able to pay decent salary to chief Justice and others working.
**World believes that hard facts and comparative figures in percentage cannot be fiddled. But unfortunately, many Pakistanis have no parallel and can deny all facts and figures unabashedly. **ANyhow, here are some interesting facts and figures about Pakistan economical progress 
GDP growth of Pakistan over different periods:
Pakistan economy in 1958 was around $3.6 billions
Pakistan economy in 1961 was $ 4.2 billions
Pakistan economy in 1969 was $ 9.7 billions
Increase of $ 5.5 billions in 8 best years (1961-69) of Ayub Khan was @ 11.0 percent per year.
[Pakistan economy in 1958 was around $3.6 billions
Pakistan economy in 1969 was $9.7 billions
Increase of around $ 6.1 billions during 11 years (1958-1969) of Ayub Khan was around @ 9.4 percent per year.]
Pakistan economy in 1972 was $11.4 billions
Pakistan economy in 1977 was $15.8 billions
Increase of $ 4.4 billions in 5 years of ZA Bhutto rule was @ 6.7 percent per year.
Pakistan economy in 1977 was $15.8 billions
Pakistan economy in 1988 was $40 billions
Increase of $ 24.2 billions in 11 years of Zia rule was @ 8.8 percent per year.
Pakistan economy in 1988 was $40 billions
Pakistan economy in 1999 was $62.2 billions
Increase of $ 22.2 billions in 11 years of corrupts duo (BB and NS) rule was @ 4.1 percent per year.
Pakistan economy in 1999 was $62.2 billions
Pakistan economy in 2007 was $146.3 billions
Increase of $ 84.1 billions in 8 years of Musharraf rule was @ 11.3 percent per year.
Once political government under President Musharraf came into being:
Pakistan economy in 2002 was $72.8 billions
Pakistan economy in 2007 was $146.3 billions
Increase of $ 74.5 billions in 5 years of Musharraf rule was @ 15.0 percent per year. … What a thumping economical growth
Per Capita Income:
**Though there is huge difference between 15 percent **average economical growth during Musharraf last 5 years of political rule (2002-2007) compared to BB and NS 4.1 percent average economical growth during 11 years of their corrupt rule, this difference becomes more shocking when population growth of country is taken into account (as population growth erode economical growth comparable to population growth, and in earlier years Pakistan population growth was very high, but today it is quite reasonable, still high). This is how per capita income varied during above periods:
Pakistan per capita economy in 1961 was $ 91
Pakistan per capita economy in 1969 was $ 152
Increase of $ 61 in per capita income during 8 best years (1961-69) of Ayub Khan rule was @ 6.62 percent per year.
Pakistan per capita economy in 1972 was $ 184
Pakistan per capita economy in 1977 was $ 213
Increase of $ 29 in per capita income during 5 years of Z A Bhutto rule was @ 2.97 percent per year.
Pakistan economy in 1977 was $ 213
Pakistan economy in 1988 was $ 395
Increase of $ 182 in per capita income during 11 years of Zia rule was @ 5.77 percent per year.
Pakistan economy in 1988 was $ 395
Pakistan economy in 1999 was $ 468
Increase of $ 73 in per capita income during 11 years of corrupts duo (BB and NS) rule was @ 1.55 percent per year.
Pakistan economy in 1999 was $ 468
Pakistan economy in 2007 was $ 925
Increase of $ 457 in per capita income during 8 years of Musharraf rule was @ 8.89 percent per year
Once political government under President Musharraf came into being:
Pakistan economy in 2002 was $ 509
Pakistan economy in 2007 was $ 925
Increase of $ 416 in per capita income during 5 years of Musharraf rule was @ 12.69 percent per year. … That’s call something to brag upon … incomparable with anything Pakistan has ever seen or expected to see
****Summary: ****Pakistan ‘GDP’ and ‘Per capita income’ growth in US dollars.
Ayub (1961-1969): Average increase per year over 8 Years
GDP: 11 % per year … … Per capita income: 6.62 % per year
Bhutto (1972-1977): Average increase per year over 5 Years
GDP: 6.7 % per year … … Per capita income: 2.97 % per year
Zia (1077-1988): Average increase per year over 11 Years
GDP: 8.8 % per year … … Per capita income: 5.77 % per year
****BB and NS **(1988-1999): Average increase per year over 11 Years **
GDP: 4.1 % per year … … Per capita income: 1.55 % per year
Musharraf (2002-2007): Average increase per year over 5 Years
GDP: 15 % per year … … Per capita income: 12.69 % per year
Now just imagine that today Pakistanis are getting better off in US dollars at the rate of 12.7 percent a year and still some crowing about period when Pakistan per capita income was increasing at the rate of 1.55 percent a year : I do not know what to say other than ponder ‘WHY ?’.
But a country where all logic fails and where people are judged on ethnicity, affiliation (religious/political), or personal like and dislike, rather on merit, hard work and results, this is what one can expect.** :)**
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
^ Alhamdulilallah. God Bless Pakistan, and may the economic boom continue. Ameen.
Salim Bhaijan, thank you for sharing these figures.
God Bless President Musharaf. God Bless the Free Judiciary.
Re: pakistan economy? warnings from IMF and ADB
yea income in pakistan is the same, what planet are you living on?
skilled labour now in pakistan is earning just as much as in any other country, pakistanis here in uk are moving back to pakistan cos companies like telenor, mcb, nestle, etc are paying them more.
per capita income has almost tripled since musharaf took over so income has grown three times more while inflation has doubled, so it all makes up at the end of the day.
people in pakistan only think about money they spend and not the money they make, its typical pakistani mentality they will be all happy with raising incomes but when prices rise they make a fuss.
my cosin in a village had a dairy farm and poultry farm in pakistan, he tells me 10 years ago the 1 chicken (2kg) would sell for Rs.60, and today only the profit in one chicken is around Rs.60
main thing here is that BUSINESSES ARE BOOOMING, this is huge incouragement for people to start businesses up, especially in rural areas where people can make hefty amounts from agriculture.,