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*Originally posted by Zabardast: *
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We still have to do a lot in players' selection for particular mathes...statistics is not that all...look at Mushtaq Ahmed's or Mohammad Hafiz's performance...selectors should develop their insights far beyond.....
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Selectors always get pressured if a player performs in English county, I remember article after article and our own guppies suggesting that he will wreak havoc if included and rest is history :)
Had this thread opned after BD series I would have not agreed at all. But after watching the young guns against SA I agree 100% with xtreme. Its not just that they beated SA so I can say PAK is back as a World Power, I think it was the way these youngsters performed one can say this team can beat any team any day. :k:
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*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
I don't think it's too early at all. I have been watching them since we started the re-building a year ago, in that time we have beaten Zimbawe, Sri Lanka, ran England very close in a ODI tournament held in England with very litle preparation and now beaten South Africa at home for the first time.
I base my judgement on seeing the quality of some of our younger players coming through like Kaneria, Yaasir Hamid, Shabbir Ahmed, Sami, Asim Kemal and Imran Farhat. Kaneria already looks a class above Mushtaq for example who is an established star in his own right.
My view is that this team can compete with the top teams in the world again and I stick by that view 100%. Everyone seems to be forgetting that before this series against SA, w were all predicting they would wipe the floor with us.
We play NZ in 5 ODI's soon and I back us to win the series. NZ are a very competent ODI side and on good batting tracks the odds are even for both sides. I also think we will go to NZ and beat them in their own backyard. Let's see who's right.
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i wud luv to be wrong but i guess in NZ, we will face a real tough time... in last few tours to NZ, we have always beaten them but again those were times when waqar and wasim were at their peak....i think our bowling may click but batting.,.... i dont see much chance. .. all the young payers u mentioned above will be facing a real challange....inshallah i hope they will do good but like i said, we have to wait and see before we start callin them real champs or world class players...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
World class doesn't mean being the best in the world, otherwise we were never world class before either (we never beat Australia or South Africa away with Wasim and Waqar at their peak).
In fact this is the first time we have beaten SA home or away.
My definition of world class is being able to compete with the leading nations of world cricket with a realistic expectation of winning be it home or away. Crap sides will get beat even at home, I can guarantee you Zimbabwe or BD will be beaten by SA or Australia on their own turf.
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We have always been a world class in my opinion, by your definiton. One match doesnt change that. Rather a series of wins over a longer period will prove that we are world class. Not just one test win.
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*Originally posted by CM: *
We have always been a world class in my opinion
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You obviously haven't been monitoring the results over the last couple of yrs then...before the current series we were ranked 6th in the World Test Championships whereas before 2000 we used to be regarded one of the top 3.
Rankings mean nothing to me. The crux of the matter is that does pakistan have the potential or realistic expectation of beating any team on the planet? Yes. That is what makes us world class according to your defintion. South Africa and even Australia lose matches. But they have the potential and more than realistic expectation to beat any team. That is what makes them world class and us as well.
WI, Zim, BD, NZ etc dont have that potential. ENG and IND i am not sure. That is a toss up.
Take Australia out of the equation as they are head and shoulder above the rest then yes, we have a side that can beat the rest so I consider us world class once again.
If you consider SA world class then we certainly didn't look 2nd best to them in the current series.
Again working on your definition, South Africa is world class and have been world class for nearly a decade now. They got to all 3 WC semi-finals but had bad luck. They are the best fielding side out there. Batting and bowling is a muck right now. But just because they lose to us doesnt diminish their value.
AUS is at the top. SA and Pak in that order follow based on your definition of potential ability to win a match.
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*Originally posted by CM: *
AUS is at the top. SA and Pak in that order follow based on your definition of potential ability to win a match.
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Right - so that makes us world class according to my definition.
NOTE:
I said World Class - not World-Beaters.
AUS and SA are world class. Pakistan on the other hand is world class if you consider potential not how it has been playing these days. That is where i agree with Old Man.
Pakistan will only be World Class in reality by beating teams home and away. If Pakistan can beat AUS in AUS and the up coming test series with India. I would consider it.
But until then Pakistan has the potential to be world class (as your definition states).
I say we're world class right now.
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*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
I say we're world class right now.
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Well aint the conversation clincher. Should we start with the your wrong i am right part?
According to your definition we have the potential to beat anybody. Thus according to your definition we are world class. However the potential is there i agree, but lets prove it first before we start asking for the team to be reformated again.
WE can beat Aussies, indians, englandie, windiees and proteas...
We are world class right now. To have taken a series of the second best team in the world is no ordinary feat, despite the fact that we were never able to field our best 11 in either match.
Whether we are world beaters will unfold in the next few months as we tour NZ and then entertain India at home.