I think we need to look beyond what we see at face value of both the government and Mullah clan. The fact that we had muslims killing muslims here or Pakistanis killing Pakistanis is just emotional talk and a way to stir up the situation. If we are to let go and be lenient with those who commit crimes just because they are our fellow nationals and co-religionists then law enforcement and government infrastructure has no meaning. We can go back to the good old farming days and a sheep herding society.
I would agree when we say that none of them are innocent and they all have skeletons in their closets. In Pakistan no politician whether in the government or opposition is squeaking clean but regardless of that they all have the responsibility to make this country progress not retrogress. The underlying friction to all our matters is that the government wants to move forward whereas our opposition in its many forms i.e. ARD, MMA, PPP, MQM (not opposition though) and Mullah clan keep hindering these efforts. In the end I look at it as who is creating a hole in the very ship they sale.
Just because the operation happened against a masjid does not make everyone in favour of it a secular. Seculars are not the only people with a sense of right or wrong. The Prophet SAW could also be viewed as a secular if that is the criteria when he demolished Masjid Dirar. Infact that sets the precedent that a masjid is not to be used for any kind of wrong under the facade of spreading Islam or piety. A commoner and a Mullah deserve the same treatment for a crime, infact the Mullah should be dealt more sternly. The common stance of the Mullah clan has always been to let their cohots off the hook with amnesty whereas for every other person they see Red shades of Shariah. The degree of hypocrisy in our Maulvi’s is far greater than any other group of people in the Pakistani society, ofcourse their are exceptions.
It stopped being a mosque once it started begin used as a terrorist compound with weapons. Simple as that.
Ghazi could have surrendered and none of this would have happened.
But MQM will always remain a secular politcal party even if more than 40 people get sniped by its goons. Isn't this a big contradiction? No action was taken against MQM because it was enjoying the full supoprt of the miliatary dictator Musharraf. And at least two newspapers The News and Daily Times reported that Ghazi had agreed to surrender.
But MQM will always remain a secular politcal party even if more than 40 people get sniped by its goons. Isn't this a big contradiction? No action was taken against MQM because it was enjoying the full supoprt of the miliatary dictator Musharraf. And at least two newspapers The News and Daily Times reported that Ghazi had agreed to surrender.
Didn't take long for your true self just came out. Always knew you were a secret jihadi supporter.
Didn't take long for your true self just came out. Always knew you were a secret jihadi supporter.
good, you have succeffully insulted me and i admit it...now back to my question...why is it that mqm can kill scores of people in the broad daylight whereas the mullah cannto use their mosques as arsenal?
They completely ignore the fact that (the aziz brothers being right or wrong) a mosque was stormed. They forget that Pakistani citizens were killed - women and children including - another tragedy after the Karachi killings - all by the "enlightened moderate" forces in the country , just to prolong their filthy rule.
Can you stop emotional blackmail for a second? This is exactly how mullahs have ruled our society so far i.e. emotional blackmail using religion as shield. Care to elaborate on what was in the "mosque"? Weapons? no no, they were playing 'ghulail ghulail', right? Some misfired 'ghulails' hit nazuk andam military personnel who died on the spot, right?
Gathering ammunition, food reserves for 'weeks' (if not months), enforcing their own ideology on society, vandalizing government property, fighting against military of their own country ... is that how a mosque leader is supposed to behave?
good, you have succeffully insulted me and i admit it...now back to my question...why is it that mqm can kill scores of people in the broad daylight whereas the mullah cannto use their mosques as arsenal?
Same reason why pashtun tribes can kill scores of people in broad daylight and nobody does anythign about it.
Pashtun tribes don't kill scores of innocent people in broad daylight...if you are talking about Taleban or Al-qaeda then I have never endorsed them and the Musarraf governemnt is also apparently against them...but why is it that MQM can kill more than 40 innocent people and get away with it? How come the MQM can kill 40+ people and mullahs cannot amass arsenal inside mosques?
But MQM will always remain a secular politcal party even if more than 40 people get sniped by its goons. Isn't this a big contradiction?
Well you see, there is a big difference between Lal mosque and MQM May 12 mayhem. The Lal mosque challenged the writ of state (read Musharraf) while MQM enforced it.
but why is it that MQM can kill more than 40 innocent people and get away with it? How come the MQM can kill 40+ people and mullahs cannot amass arsenal inside mosques?
Are you suggesting that 'religious' institutes should be equally bad, ghunda-gard like MQM? I sincerely hope not.
Lets not lose track of the issue. This is clearly an issue about Pakistan's state integrity, and these Islamists should not try to undermine that. A mosque can be rebuilt, bigger better is wanted, but no location should eliminate force action as an option.
I don’t know if I quite agree with your statements, and here is why.
First of all, media in Pakistan (like elsewhere) is not a homogenous group. They all have different agendas and have different influences. While reporting the same thing ARY and PTV will have a different spin than Geo or AAJ television. This is just the way media operates and this disunity (if we can call it that) is a source of strength for any free society.
Coming back to the role of media, for Pakistanis in the US we have access to several Pak television channels ARY, Geo and PTV (I don’t subscribe to PTV). From some news report and talking to friends, it seems there is a channel in Pakistan called AAJ television (same one that was attacked by MQM in Khi on May 12th), which is supposedly extremely anti-government. These days all they are doing is praising the militants (in the name of Islam etc). I am not sure if AAJ is quietly sponsored by Nawa-e-Waqt or Nawaz Sharif etc. Point is that there are channels that are extremely pro-Mullahs (or whatever you want to call it). *.
Of the more mainstream channels, Geo and ARY have all kinds of talk shows and news reporters. Some, like Dr Shahid Masood (on Geo) are extremely opinionated and generally extremely anti-government. Some others like Capital Talk (Hamid Mir) and Kamran Khan puportedly are more balanced as they invite people with differing views and make them answer each other and often times tough questions. Hamid Mir, in particular comes across as very decent and sincere and usually tries to portray a journalistic approach to events highlighted by tough questions and a general cynicism to dicey answers given by participants. However, the true feelings of these anchors are displayed when they write their newspaper articles. Here is what Hamir Mir wrote in Jang today about Maulana Ghazi.
The article is in Urdu, and its title is “Death of a Baaghi (mutineer)”. In summary its a eulogy of Ghazi and excuses for all his misdeeds. I find so many holes in his commentary that I can literally drive a tank through them, but the point is again role of media. I don’t think they are supporting government (or “secular killers”, as you ecall them) en masse. There will be elements in the media who support one or the other party. To say that “media is supporting secular killers” is probably very simplistic, generally untrue and missing the point.*
Hamid Mir is quite a moderate person and had earned respect of quite a few guppans on this board for giving a stick to Mullahs during his talk shows but on his last show he did appear very critical of government and ended the show asking as to why May 12 fascists were left alone. I think its the frustration built in by the whole mis-handling of the issue that led him to write this article.
Read Nazir Naji's article, he is known to be very anti-Mullah and has written several articles against Lal Mosque but he to was frustrated by gov's actions.
Seems like nobody remembers the 1979 raid of Haram Sharif. Some 127 died after the military (including French commandos) had to raid the masjid and kill the terrorists. Today nobody really remember the terrorists who first hijacked the masjid. Similarly, years from now nobody will remember Ghazi and gang.
His article gives a perception that his brother aziz has links with the government and that he got away and got killed his brother. His brother fulfilled Musharraf's agenda. Is that the case?
Well you see, there is a big difference between Lal mosque and MQM May 12 mayhem. The Lal mosque challenged the writ of state (read Musharraf) while MQM enforced it.
Seems like nobody remembers the 1979 raid of Haram Sharif. Some 127 died after the military (including French commandos) had to raid the masjid and kill the terrorists. Today nobody really remember the terrorists who first hijacked the masjid. Similarly, years from now nobody will remember Ghazi and gang.
Now I wonder why the deobandi wahabi clan of Abdul Wahab hasn't answered to that?
Now I wonder why the deobandi wahabi clan of Abdul Wahab hasn't answered to that?
In 1979, 200 plus militants captured Masjid of which 130 odd died and rest were arrested alive. When some of them took refuge in basements, water was used to fill the basemnts and bring them out. Mosque was not raided by helicopters, rockets or firebombs. Moreover do not compare this operation with KSA, they do not turn blind eye to May 12 like incidents. Shia/brelwi clan happy now?
the militants in KSA did not allegedly have hostages, and that was not something 'many' channels on the airwaves and clergy cirlces of teh country were crying about.
oh and unlike most ppl here. I was at Haram sharif just weeks after this incidence for umrah, and they still had bullet holes in columns and in some places the marble or limestone had been stained by blood, and while the place was cleaned the stain was still there. I was a kid then, but recall the images vividly.
so if we are concerned about 'desecration' then choppers at a general masjid or machine guns at kaaba, its the same thing.
and as far as people dying goes, whether they die by bullets or they die by drowning, they are just as dead.
Laeeq bhai