Shame on Musharraf. I am glad that the sanctions have been lifted.
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*Originally posted by Zakk: *
Lets get this right anti..according to you Asma Jehangir, Imran Khan and the MMA are all on the same side?
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Yes, they are on the same side aslong as they are anti-anti-obl or anti what anti-obl stands for, which is antiobl, is it clear.
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*Originally posted by skhan: *
Shame on Musharraf. I am glad that the sanctions have been lifted.
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Shame on Musharraf for lifting the sanctions? haha!
This is a brilliant piece of MAToo logic.
Just to hammer my point home:
The first strike on the camp was made by the Americans
he Americans made a second successful strikes in mid-September when they took out an Al Qaeda-run militant camp in the South Waziristan Agency using a combination of the Predator unmanned aerial vehicle and precision guided munitions. The first such strike was carried out in June this year when the Americans eliminated the tribal militant Nek Muhammad (TFT July 02-08). Nek was regarded as a “symbol of resistance” against the war on terror.
Islamabad-based sources told TFT the American strike at the training camp was followed by a second strike by Pakistan air force jets and gunship helicopters which fully destroyed the facility. However, the second strike also caused civilian casualties.
** Islamabad has tacitly acknowledged the presence of a “small number of Americans” to help Pakistan fight terrorists. Official sources told TFT that “Some of them [Americans] are stationed near Waziristan and they intercept telephone calls and monitor suspects using state-of-the-art technology”. **
However, deputy military spokesman Brig Shah Jehan denies the Americans are involved in any operations or they launched the air strike. “Pakistan does not allow foreign troops to carry out any ground or air operation on its soil or in the sky,” he told TFT. “All operations in Waziristan are being carried out is by the Pakistan Army itself.”
Sources with firsthand information on the situation, however, say the Americans pinpointed the camp with the help of images from predators flying over Waziristan to chase Al Qaeda and Taliban remnants. “They used guided missile to target the facility and it was the most successful strike,” TFT was told by one.
“In the first guided missile strike [by the Americans], around 25 terrorists were killed and it was carried out in the early hours of Thursday [September 9] in the Dila Khula area. When Pakistan was informed of the strike, our air force launched a second air strike,” the source added.
Local tribesmen say it was the second strike that caused civilian casualties. “After the first strike people rushed to the area to rescue the injured which is when the second attack came,” a source told TFT, explaining that civilian casualties were unintended.
Military spokesman Maj.-Gen. Shaukat Sultan gave 50 casualties on foreign terrorists side but conceded that tribal militants might have been among the dead.
He told journalists in Peshawar on September 10 that the army had footage on the training camp and the activities therein. ** Some observers say his statement confirms that the attack was guided by the Predator UAV. “One can make a video of the bombing from the jet fighter but Mr Sultan seems to speak of a pre-attack video. That is only possible with the Predator,” says a former military officer. **
hahah! These MAToo Munkees have no shame and no logic. What I hear is that Americans are so successful in these strikes in Pakistan, yet they fail to strike Mullah Omer, or GulBadan in Afghanistan.
Let me put this question again! Americans cannot kill terrorist leaders in Afghanistan where they have control. Yet they are so successful in Pakistan where Pak-military is involved. What gives?
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*Originally posted by antiobl: *
hahah! These MAToo Munkees have no shame and no logic. What I hear is that Americans are so successful in these strikes in Pakistan, yet they fail to strike Mullah Omer, or GulBadan in Afghanistan.
Let me put this question again! Americans cannot kill terrorist leaders in Afghanistan where they have control. Yet they are so successful in Pakistan where Pak-military is involved. What gives?
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What makes you think they are in Afghanistan? Maybe thats why they can't get them in Afghanistan because all of them are settled in Osamabad.
More top al-qeada leaders have been caught in Osamabad then Afghanistan.
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*Originally posted by Sher Khan Suri: *
....Maybe thats why they can't get them in Afghanistan because all of them [Mullah Omer, and Gulbadan] are settled in Osamabad. ......
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Yeap. This piece of "authentic" news comes from the Bawarchi (cook) in Gulbadan's Hujra (castle) in Islamabad. haha.
Let me put this question again! Americans cannot kill terrorist leaders in Afghanistan where they have control. Yet they are so successful in Pakistan where Pak-military is involved? I hope MAToos have a better answer to this scenario.
Okay, I admit, you got me, I cook for Gulbadin.
Capt Matoo, you should come forth as well, admit that you are his fav banda.
p.s. Tell us where are you hiding Osama and one eye Mullah?
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*Originally posted by Sher Khan Suri: *
Okay, I admit, you got me, I cook for Gulbadin.
......
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Well then your Mullah boss knows that he is in the cross-hair as we speak. Neku is gone. Now it is Shaiku (Gulbadan) and his cooker's (as in Hook**) turn.
I think writers like this reflect a conserable number in the Army
Similarity in Iraq and Wana operations
LT. COL. (RETD) AZFAR MAHMOOD AZHAR
If we closely analyse the US war in Iraq and the military operation in South Waziristan the similarity is that both the actions were based on faulty assumption and bad planning. US planners assumed that once Saddam Hussein was removed from the power the Iraqis would take them as saviour and therefore would receive the troops with garlands. Once that did not happen, with no plan to proceed further, they committed grievous mistakes thus alienated the Iraqis.
Once the urban insurgency started they had no strategy or tactical plan as how to deal with it. That was the prime reason for insurgency to spread across the length and breath of Iraq, taking the shape of a civil war. Still the US administration and the Pentagon are at odds as how to deal with the spiraling violence getting out of hands.
With the US election round the corner and the administration stonewalling, the army ostensibly adopted a strategy to hold back on major offensive and mollify insurgents where they can and use muscles where they cannot by precision targeting. Even this strategy has failed to bring the desired results as killing of the civilians continued, which angered the people resulting in more and more individuals to join the insurgency and organizations set up to combat occupation by USA.
This is exactly what is happening in South Waziristan. Under intense pressure from USA, the army ventured into the area without a cohesive plan as how to subdue the well armed and experienced fighters. They had no idea about the reaction of the tribal people inhibiting the area.
Ostensibly, they had not read the history of the area thus made faulty assumption that by advancing and firing the weapons would force the tribal people to give-in.
** The level of resistance took them by surprise that forced them to believe that the tribes were protecting a high valued target, which later proved to be false. Rushing reinforcements to neutralise the resistance they indiscriminately used the armed helicopters and artillery in the built up area that caused civilian casualties forcing exodus of the local population resulting in further resentment. **
Realising the mistake as these actions angered the population and helped the insurgents to increase their rank and files, the army switched to precision targeting. But this approach did little in preventing the civilian casualties from occurring, resulting in the situation getting from bad to worse.
** The operation, which was to last for a month or so, is taking longer and is still inconclusive. As there was no plan to deal with different situations likely to arise the government adopted different policies: carrying out parleys and the operation simultaneously, collective punishment and economic blockade. These measures also failed to produce the desired results. **
Instead it resulted in the mistrust of the government’s motive in the area. The worse thing that had happened because of this operation besides alienating the locals, the exaggerated stories of atrocities committed by the security forces has disillusioned the public in general.
This clearly reflects that the military operation was prematurely undertaken without adequate planning as to how to handle various scenarios likely to arise out of the operation, a situation in which US army is finding itself in Iraq.
With no military solution in sight after six months of operation the government apparently has agreed to find a political solution by involving the MNAs and other notables of the area - a wise move, as solution cannot be found through the barrel of the gun when the military lacks the local support of the people. The fire thus ignited in Iraq and Wana is hard to dose.
The local population is alienated against the administration in both the places as besides inflicting civilian casualties, the infrastructure has been damaged extensively, which would require lot of time and money to rehabilitate.
USA action in Iraq is understandable as they are in a foreign country belonging to the people of different religion. ** But military operation in South Waziristan, when the option of dialogue was not fully exploited, is beyond comprehension. Remember, the wound inflicted by own people is difficult to heal. No soothing bam in the sense of compensation and economic uplift can effectively heal the wounds especially when the people believe in laxtalionis. **
Now the question arises that if ultimately we have to revert to parleys with the locals after inconclusive fighting then why military operation was given preference over dialogues in the first place? Why enforce the policies of collective punishment and economic blockade? When the former policy has been adopted by Israel against the Palestinians to break their will has failed miserably and hatred for Israelis has enflamed further.
The latter policy reminds us that the infidels of Mekkah implemented the same policy against the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his followers, which lasted for three years, with the aim of forcing the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to abandoned his mission. The difference is that then it was infidels vs. Muslims as compared to now Muslims vs. Muslims. On this occasion as then it achieved nothing except increased the misery of the Muslims.
Presently the government circle are confused as how to go about solving this problem that has been complicated with the military operation, therefore different illogical steps are being taken to force the insurgents to surrender to their demands.
So far nothing substantial has been achieved except causing casualties on both side. Besides, cementing the resolve of the tribal fighters to stand up to the army and fight irrespective of the consequences - a dangerous trend that could be emulated by others.
So the prudent thing is that in case of local issue political solution should be explored and when failed only then military operation be under taken but after through planning. The mission should be accomplished in a given time as lingering of the operation with no result in sight would raise the eyebrows and negative remarks against the army by the public.
For the public the difficult terrain or other impediments like the use of minimum fire power just to avoid civilian casualties means nothing. For them the operation must end with desired goals achieved in a short time, as the army is not pitched against another army. Here not being able to subdue a limited number of fighters is a bad omen. Hence the importance of case studies before launching the operation and its negative fall-outs must not be ignored.
No time for immotional blackmail here. Pak Army has this opportunity to clense the area of rebels / outlaw / warlords / crimminals / smugglers / drug pushers / Qabaili's sardars, who over the years have learned to trade their way into the Pakistan Culture as well.
There are house holds in Pakistan scattered into the majore cities with links and rishtaydaries with Qabaily warlords. They are certainly eating their way into pakistan's integrety.
See how for Fist full of Dollars they accomodated terrorists amongst them.
This so called notorious "Elaqa Ghair" should be brought into Judicial framwork of All Pakistan. Its irrelevant who'll initiate the task. Fedral or local goverment. Get rid of this Iron curtain now or yoy'll never have a chance again.