Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
You are so hilarious. Really.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
---------cvabn------------
Where exactley did the dragon fly bit you Fred? Your behind looks quite fluffy? 
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
Well
with Shoaib in the team, Pakistan must have beaten India in both the Tests and one days. And as for the West indies they were of no class for a team like us. It is a shame for PCB and for Pakistan to loose a test against a team as weak as WI.
I know Shoaib is a big mouth and have created troubles through his acts on the field and off the field onocassions but he is the only genuine fast bowler we have. The rest are just medium pacers. When people blame Shaoaib for loosing some games, why they forget the games Shoaib Akhtar had won for us just SINGLE HANDED.
If Inzamam, Woolmer or Shahr-e-yaar khan have problems with Shoaib and they don’t want him in the team, then Shoaib is a national issue, not a home fight. Shoaib must be included in Pakistan Side if PCB wants our team to defeat GOOD teams like Australia, Sri Lanka or England or even South Africa.
Both West Indies and India were ranked below us in ICC ranking and we hardly managed to draw test series against them
A SHAME for the PCB and INZAMAM’s attitude towards SHOAIB AKHTAR.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
:) :) :)
Weather and rain Saved the day for Pakistan. West Indies were going great, and then weather interrupted the game and pitch started in favor of spin. Without this help form nature, Pakistan was definitely heading to a 2-0 series result.
Shaoaib is the backbone of Pakistan bowling attack. Without him, INZY and the Pakistan Boys could not stop even a university level team from scoring 300+ in each innings.
:) :) :)
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
Yes you are very right with your thoughts. But I guess in ODI we must have at least Shoaib to pair up with Rana Naved. Rana is a good strike bowler for Pakistan but no other bowler starting Pakistan attack has ever succeeded to take wickets in his opening spell. With Rana firing on one end and Shoaib on the other, I guess Pakistan have the highest chances of getting rid of the opponent’s openers in the first 10 overs. As far as I think and know about cricket. If you can get rid of the openers and another batsman (if possible) in the first 10 overs , the chances of winning that ODI are extremely high.
No other strike bowler have succeeded to take wickets in his opening spell. It seems like Rana takes 1-3 wickets in his first spell but all the other bowlers could not get a single wicket.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
you are funny. you are ignoring the fact that pitch was in its 4th and 5th day, but taking weather in consideration. Now tell us all the secret we didn’t know, how the weather turned wicket into a spinning one.
Really? Hmmmmm. Did you watch India’s visit to Pakistan? I bet not, now be a good kiddo and rent that series and watch it carefully, I’ll buy you a chewing gum when you do that. Shoaib is def a great bowler, but his presence doesn’t guarantee that Pakistan will win the game or series, he is just ONE player in the team.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
There is no secret. I am following cricket and watch/follow almost every match going on, whether Pak is involved or not.
The pitch behavior changes after even a slight change in weather and humidity. You are right about 4th and 5th day but West Indies chased a record run chase against the best bowling attack at present, Australia, two years back with almost the same team and on 4th and 5th days. With Lara, Chanderpal and Sarwa, all in-form batsmen getting out just after the rain, how can you not agree that pitch certainly supported spinners.
Yes I followed the series just in case yuo have forgotten here is the bowling summary:
One Days (Pak Bowling, Inia in Pak, 2004)
Name Mat O M R W Ave Best SR Econ
Mohammad Sami 5 49.4 2 299 11 27.18 3-41 27.0 6.02
Shoaib Akhtar 5 48 3 264 9 29.33 3-49 32.0 5.50
Shabbir Ahmed 4 36 1 216 5 43.20 3-33 43.2 6.00
Shoaib Malik 5 47 0 254 4 63.50 2-40 70.5 5.40
Naved-ul-Hasan 1 10 0 73 3 24.33 3-73 20.0 7.30
Abdul Razzaq 5 39 1 245 3 81.66 2-44 78.0 6.28
Shahid Afridi 3 13 0 87 2 43.50 2-57 39.0 6.69
Yasir Hameed 5 1 0 6 0 - - - 6.00
Source:
http://pak.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2003-04/IND_IN_PAK/STATS/IND_IN_PAK_MAR-APR2004_ODI_AVS.html
Tests (Pak Bowling, Inia in Pak, 2004)
Name Mat O M R W Ave Best SR Econ
Danish Kaneria 2 81.5 7 248 7 35.42 3-14 70.1 3.03
Shoaib Akhtar 3 86.2 16 297 7 42.42 3-47 74.0 3.44
Mohammad Sami 3 123 22 435 7 62.14 2-92 105.4 3.53
Umar Gul 1 25 3 96 6 16.00 5-31 25.0 3.84
Imran Farhat 3 19.1 1 100 3 33.33 2-69 38.3 5.21
Fazl-e-Akbar 1 40.4 3 162 1 162.00 1-162 244.0 3.98
Saqlain Mushtaq 1 43 4 204 1 204.00 1-204 258.0 4.74
Yasir Hameed 3 1 0 5 0 - - - 5.00
Abdul Razzaq 1 15 3 61 0 - - - 4.06
Shabbir Ahmed 1 31 6 122 0 - - - 3.93
Source:
http://pak.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2003-04/IND_IN_PAK/STATS/IND_IN_PAK_MAR-APR2004_TEST_AVS.html
Shoaib was amongst the most successfull bowlers in Tests and he was just 2 wickets short of Mohammed Sami in ODIs to be the second best bowler. He performed well amongst available choices in both types of the game (Test and ODI).
Now how could have you forgot this performance if you have followed the series???
It is always good to recall memory well before talking about the past events. Some times the ongoing events may disturb the views or memories of the past.
I have also included the sources where I got the information, in case you still don’t recall your memory or you don’t believe me.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
^ please format the numbers correctly so we can read... thanks.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
^^ cap10
umer.ashraf is deff not my ‘other nick’ or from ‘Cafe’ :k: , he’s an independent dude! 
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
hmmmm, now that you have mentioned, I’m beginning to wonder that (multinicks).
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
Well,
new to the forum. Don'tnow how to put tables.
Tried, not perect but readable.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
Good, now read these:
WI vs Aus game was played @ Antigua Recreation Ground, St John’s, Antigua
WI vs Pak game was played @ Sabina Park, Kingston, Jamaica
Does ground, city play any role in that ? or is it just the teams? These two games were played in two diff grounds and in case you haven’t heard, highest (successful ?) chase on this ground has been 212 runs… why? Any guess?
Good, shabash, so you did follow the series and now that you have posted the summaries, read my words again:
“Shoaib is def a great bowler, but his presence doesn’t guarantee that Pakistan will win the game or series, he is just ONE player in the team.”
Do you get it? I guess you are confusing my words, I didn’t mean to say that Shoaib’s performance sucked or anything… got it?
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
Well, you will learn it, now it is in much better shape… thanks :k:
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
Well
Not going to repeat any comments just to make things easier.
Don’t take it serious man. You are trying to prove your point and I am trying to prove mine. You did not read my words as well or you understood wrog…
I have not said that ground does not matter. It matter of course as do a lot of other factors, but I meant that the West Indian Team chased the biggest score ever in the second innings on whatever ground. They got a good opening against Pak in 2nd Test with Lara, Sarwan and Chanderpal still in hand. Then weather interupted and pitch conditions changed.
All I am trying to prove is:
“If weather was not there to help, then it was definitely 2-0. In summary I just meant that without the support from nature (weather), Pakistan was never able to win this Test…”
As for Shoaib, I have not said that he will win games for Pakistan. All I am trying to say is that with Shoaib in the Team, we have a better bowling attack a better team and thus a better chance of win. No single player can guarantee success and Shoaib is not an exception. All I or other fans of cricket are trying to prove here is that Shoaib Akhter is the best bowler we have at this time. If you doubt my statement just put him against any other bowler on this planet. Whether it is Bret Lee, Glen Mcgrath or whatever and observe yourself.
To simplify what I am trying to say about Shoaib, I will give a current example from Hockey. Do you follow hockey? Any way this is most suitable example. In Azlan Shah Hockey tournament, Pak was the best team before they played their final game against Malaysia. Sohail Abbas was not playing in the team. We got 6 penality corners against Malaysia (the wekeast team I guess) and we lost 1-0. With Sohail Abbas, we must have scored at least 2-3 of them as he scored throught his career. Sohail Abbas was the all time top scorer in hockey on this planet, but he never could won a cup for Pak because he never had support from other players. But this does not mean that Sohail Abbas is not amongst the best 10 players in the history of the game.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
^ Regarding Shoaib, I agree. Regarding weather helping Pakistan, I disagree, it wasn't weather, the reason I presented you the ground information was that highest chase was 212 in 4th inning, otherwise 280 is really not that a difficult chase given that you have more than 1 day of time to do it, but pitch in this ground deteriorates making that a difficult one. Weather doesn't convert a pitch into spinner friendly so quickly. Also it was all cloudy, not a scorching sun.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
Inzi said in his post match press conference that weather actually had negative impact on Pakistan. Kaneria complained to Inzi several times after first delay due to rain that he can't grip the ball anymore because of the wetness.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
^ also, rain makes pitch damper resulting in less spin, while our guppy Umar Ashraf claims that rain made that pitch turn.
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
ur name should be Umer Sharief for the jokes that you posted :k:
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
Well you are right with the score. Most teams cannot chase in the second innings just becuase a run rate of about 4+ is required in 60-80 overs. Chasing such scores is difficult, cause either you will fail to maintain the run rate (DRAW) or you may loose wickets easily (LOOSE). The chances of win are thus very short. But note that none of the teams that have played on this ground before this Test match had this much easy run chase and time. WI got one and a half day, or simply 280 runs in about (90+45=)135 overs at a run rate of 2.07. With a batting line of Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul and Lara, all in form, they had nothing to fear off.
Well, as for the pitch conditions, even experts some times are wrong. So it is very hard for a person like me to say how the pitch will actually behave. All I am trying to say is that in last 80+ years this pitch has never favored spinners. Kaneria, Gayle and Shoaib Malik, all failed to perform on this pitch, except when Kaneria took important wickets of Lara, Chandrpal, … just after the weather interupted. Kaneria is a good spinner. But his pitch has always supported fast bowlers. Remember Shabbir, Collymore and Tino Best striking before and after weather interuption.
Now would you disagree with my pooint that how come a Pitch which never supported a spinner in 80+ years just start in favor of Kaneria just after the weather interuption. Kaneria just got one wicket before the weather interupted and he destroyed WI just after…Kaneria is amongst the best spinners out there today, but still weather played its role.
Here are the stats for this ground based on all the tests being played on this ground dominated by fast bowlers. A spinner never was in control on this ground.
Bowler,Team (M,Balls,Mdns,Runs,Wkts,Av)
CA Walsh,West Indies(11,2219,91,897,48,18.68)
WW Hall,West Indies(5,1266, 40,534,35,15.25)
MD Marshall,West Indies(8,1417, 45,603,31,19.45)
GS Sobers,West Indies(11,2390,116,879,27,32.55)
LR Gibbs,West Indies(8,2510,131,858,24,35.75)
MA Holding,West Indies(5, 986, 34,475,24,19.79)
J Garner,West Indies(6,1153, 42,503,22,22.86)
CD Collymore,West Indies(3, 608, 22,274,20,13.70)
PT Collins, West Indies(3, 585, 13,334,16,20.87)
AL Valentine,West Indies(4,1385, 80,507,16,31.68)
N Kapil Dev, India(2, 483, 15,224,15,14.93)
DAJ Holford, West Indies(3, 864, 46,299,14,21.35)
S Ramadhin, West Indies(4,1230, 64,466,14,33.28)
IR Bishop,West Indies(4, 614, 22,267,13,20.53)
M Dillon, West Indies(2, 484, 18,239,13,18.38)
KR Miller,Australia(2, 530, 20,263,13,20.23)
BP Patterson,West Indies(3, 401, 8,242,13,18.61)
FS Trueman, England(3, 818, 33,402,13,30.92)
KCG Benjamin,West Indies(2, 395, 9,232,11,21.09)
FH Edwards, West Indies(3, 421, 11,228,11,20.72)
AME Roberts, West Indies(2, 471, 23,193,11,17.54)
FA Rose, West Indies(2, 468, 21,216,11,19.63)
Source:
http://pak.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/BY_GROUND/200/TESTS/MOST_WKTS.html
Now if no spinner was ever able to spin the ball well on this ground for over 80 years, and Kaneria failed before that weather conditions as well, then did he ate POWERMAX to increase his performance???
Re: Pak bowling weak without Shoaib, Sami, says Lara
^^ Well read the facts about the ground and pitch conditions, posted above, and then let me know if Kaneria ate some performance-enhancing medicine or did weather favored him in some way.