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*Originally posted by armughal: *
why drop the hijaab????
why not keep the hijab and change ur dresses to something thats not revealing....
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i've more personal reasons as to why i stopped wearing a scarf......
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*Originally posted by Sara516: *
real people don't wear such clothes. What goes down those runways, is never meant to be worn exactly thatway. THose are generally used for ideas , just like the images posted in fashion and beauty here. fashion designers do more than just clothes, they try to convey their ideas and opinions , and use clothing as their choice of medium.
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dont you want to see hijab wearer ,those who show off their legs
when you walk down the street instead of seeing the same thing.
hijab has no value when evrybody wears one.
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*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
Some high school going girls that I have seen wear clothes that are no different than there black friends.
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Ummm. What is this supposed to mean?
Sadiyah I dont think anybody is pointing fingers.They are simply pointing out to you what they do see.Allah is the final judge.There are many people who do struggle with the hijab , but there are many who dont.I for one, have never had a problem with it.I have some friends who refuse to wear it because they dont fit in in if they do, they say they dont look good enough when they wear it.They would rather set fashion trends than wear the hijab.This is not a struggle, these are people who are worried about what others think rather than following our faith.Its my own friends.I dont judge them, but I can disagree with their opinions.Its true Allah looks at your heart, how much faith you have ,how closely you follow islam.But Allah has sent down many ayahs for us , that we are encouraged to follow.
If a sister is going to wear very tight clothing, or something that is too short, or see through , we dont have the right to judge - but we can educate.We should teach one another.Its their own choice.I myself used to wear clothing that wasnt very loose, that showed the outline of my body, but I changed that when I realized how wrong it was.Some people dont wear hijab or dress properly, but they are very good Muslims otherwise.Some wear proper clothes and hijab yet they participate in 'other' unIslamic activities.
The bottom line here is, if a girl will wear hijab, she should think carefully about it.Its her choice how she dresses when she does wear it, but theres nothing wrong in seeking further knowledge about Islam.Religion is NOT a game.Its something we need to learn about and try to follow.Every effort should be appreciated, but there are girls who dont try.Some girls wear the hijab as a fashion trend.Something that doesnt even cover their hair properly etc.I talk about these issues a lot with my friends, because I know them.But if I see a hijabi on the street I wont go over and insult her or any such thing.Its a ot easier explaining to friends.Nobody has the right to insult or judge another, but they can express their opinions in a friendly manner.
But there are ayah and gudelines for modesty:
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not annoyed..." (Qur'an 33:59)
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)
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Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
Sadiyah I dont think anybody is pointing fingers.They are simply pointing out to you what they do see.Allah is the final judge.There are many people who do struggle with the hijab , but there are many who dont.I for one, have never had a problem with it.I have some friends who refuse to wear it because they dont *fit in in if they do, they say they dont look good enough when they wear it.They would rather set fashion trends than wear the hijab.This is not a struggle, these are people who are worried about what others think rather than following our faith.Its my own friends.I dont judge them, but I can disagree with their opinions.Its true Allah looks at your heart, how much faith you have ,how closely you follow islam.But Allah has sent down many ayahs for us , that we are encouraged to follow.
If a sister is going to wear very tight clothing, or something that is too short, or see through , we dont have the right to judge - but we can educate.We should teach one another.Its their own choice.I myself used to wear clothing that wasnt very loose, that showed the outline of my body, but I changed that when I realized how wrong it was.Some people dont wear hijab or dress properly, but they are very good Muslims otherwise.Some wear proper clothes and hijab yet they participate in 'other' unIslamic activities.
The bottom line here is, if a girl will wear hijab, she should think carefully about it.Its her choice how she dresses when she does wear it, but theres nothing wrong in seeking further knowledge about Islam.Religion is NOT a game.Its something we need to learn about and try to follow.Every effort should be appreciated, but there are girls who dont try.Some girls wear the hijab as a fashion trend.Something that doesnt even cover their hair properly etc.I talk about these issues a lot with my friends, because I know them.But if I see a hijabi on the street I wont go over and insult her or any such thing.Its a ot easier explaining to friends.Nobody has the right to insult or judge another, but they can express their opinions in a friendly manner.
But there are ayah and gudelines for modesty:
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not annoyed..." (Qur'an 33:59)
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)
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how comr you showing your face real or imagined?
i don’t understand what you just said. 
english plz
Its interesting how Mr.Smoothy cant help himself in looking (when he shouldnt be), but is quick to point out girls not observing full hijab, even if they're trying. Hijab goes both ways remember, and it doesnt stop at womens clothing. Do we have any criticism for constant ogling and tight clothing worn by men then?
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*Originally posted by Ma Mooli: *
Its interesting how Mr.Smoothy cant help himself in looking (when he shouldnt be), but is quick to point out girls not observing full hijab, even if they're trying. Hijab goes both ways remember, and it doesnt stop at womens clothing. Do we have any criticism for constant ogling and tight clothing worn by men then?
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not really because you know hijab is our sixth fardh, only for women tho
I've shortened an article I found on the web:
There are four main opinions held by women about the Hijab, not necessarily in this order:
- 'To cover is to deny individual liberty and accept oppression'
Some women have accepted the idea that Hijab is not a necessity in th 21st Century. She believe's that she is a free individual who is at liberty to display her beauty, to express her individuality and must therefore reject any notion of having to cover up. Such a woman has chosen to join the ranks of the much degraded Western woman, lowering her status to a mere commodity and all the while remaining deluded, believing she is liberated.
- 'Its my choice'
This is the Muslim woman who is led to believe that she covers, as a show of her personal freedom and it is her 'democratic right' to do so. Many Muslim women may seek to cover in accordance with the Shari'ah, but have taken on the understanding that they have the right and freedom of choice to make the decision to cover or not. An example of this is the response of some Muslim organizations in Britain who commented in response to Cherie Blair's statement by saying: "Wearing a burqa is a women's choice that should be respected, but we agree that there should be no coercion."
Such views regarding the covering are in complete conformity with the Western concept of personal freedom and their advocates have fallen prey to the kufr agenda. The view that the Muslim woman has personal freedom in exercising her choice to cover (or not to cover) at leisure is wholly acceptable to Western observers. For example the U.S government promotes the democratic right of individuals to wear 'religious' clothing (explicitly mentioning the hijab) in government buildings as well as recreating the image of the 'all American' family (who just happen to be Muslim) by producing an advert depicting the 'mom' serving breakfast in a headscarf. It can also seem that there is no ban in many Western states (bar France) on the Khimar, though these are the same nations who have attacked the 'burka' and hailed the 'unveiling' of Afghanistan and Algeria as great liberations. In this instance it becomes clear that such an attack is not simply against the garment worn by the Muslim woman as in some cases it appears to be completely 'acceptable', rather it is against the very reason motivating her to wear it. If she were to cover based on the concept of personal freedom, then her reasoning to do so is on par with that of the Western woman who wears a miniskirt.
- 'I cover but its fashionable too'
The concept of following fashion is part of the Western culture of consumerism and is largely dependent on the sense of inadequacy, which has been instilled, in the Western woman. The necessity of following fashion, possessing the latest item of clothing, the right shoes or the right handbag is implicit to the Western woman's struggle to meet the societal standard of beauty and acceptability. The motivation to cover for the Muslim woman is the desire to obey and please none but Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala), and is in complete contradiction with the desire to attain a specific appearance based on the trends set by the fashion industry. To discuss the divine hukm (order) revealed by Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala) in the context of the man made, superficial and pretentious concept of 'fashion' is most definitely an insult to the rules of Islam.
4.'We cover to preserve modesty and to prevent men from gazing at us'
When we seek to counteract any form of attack initiated by the Kuffar upon our Deen, the most dangerous of responses is to become defensive by making reasoning that emanates from our mind. This will only weaken our stance as Muslims and ensure that we do not refer to the reasoning given in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, which fits in with the Western agenda to divide the Muslim from her reference point; the Qur'an and Sunnah. The hikmah (wisdom) of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala) cannot be used as an illah (reason) for undertaking the action, because the result of the action may yield the hikmah or it may not. Thus in the case of the wearing of the khimar and the jilbaab there is no Shari'ah illah (a divine reason given by Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala). This is something which itself is not determined by the opinion of anyone who feels it must have a reason. Rather, we accept the fact that Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala) gave us the guidance of the Qur'an and Sunnah as a Rahma to His slaves to govern their lives, and give them repose. It is therefore an accepted fact if He (subhanahu wa ta’aala) sometimes chooses to give a Shari'ah illah (reason) for His (subhanahu wa ta’aala) rulings and sometimes a hikmah, neither of which are reasoned by the human mind but both are accepted as stated in the textual evidences. So for a Muslim woman to say that she covers to preserve modesty is inconsistent, because the measure of modesty can vary from person to person and from country to country. Since the measure of modesty can vary, the argument she has taken invariably means that the Islamic dress code can be changed according to the change of time. So this form of discussion only seeks to dilute the pristine identity of the Muslim woman and her view of the Islamic dress.
All four points are wrong.
What is the correct view is that the only reason women cover is because it is a command from our Creator, Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala), regardless of whether such an action yields the prevention of men from gazing at the woman or not. No other reasoning is necessary or given in the Qur'an for why the Muslim woman is obliged to cover her 'awrah.
Conclusion
The Muslim woman submits only to the restrictions, the commands and prohibitions of her Creator. She acknowledges that the Muslim man and woman are not free, but rather restricted by the Shari'ah of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala).
When the Muslim woman leaves her home in the khimar and jilbaab, she does so as an act of worship to none other than her Creator, her Rabb, Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala). The attack on the veil is an attack upon the Muslim woman's worship to Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala), an attack on the fact that she seeks to adhere to the Hukm Shar'i and not to the kuffar values of capitalism.
Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala) has legislated what is Halal and what is Haram, and He (subhanahu wa ta’aala) has legislated that the covering of the Muslim woman is Fard (obligatory).
So the only reason for covering is the fact that Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala) commanded it of the Muslim woman and in fulfilling the obligation she obeys Him (subhanahu wa ta’aala) and gains His pleasure and abundant reward in the hereafter. Adopting any other, Western inspired, reasoning for wearing the Khimar is unacceptable and lends support to the 'Attack on the Veil', each time a Muslim woman allows her Islamic motives for covering to be affected by the Kufr concept of personal freedom, she allows the attack to achieve success. She herself falls prey to the oppression that the Capitalist ideology can only manage to achieve leaving the woman feeling that her only redeemable attribute is her outward makeup, which will then define her worth in society.
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*Originally posted by Sara516: *
not really because you know hijab is our sixth fardh, only for women tho
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I think your concept of hijab is a little lacking. You'll find that Hijab is fardh for men and women, and that despite the bigger emphasis, the clothing are just a small part of it.
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What is the correct view is that the only reason women cover is because it is a command from our Creator, Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala), regardless of whether such an action yields the prevention of men from gazing at the woman or not. No other reasoning is necessary or given in the Qur'an for why the Muslim woman is obliged to cover her 'awrah
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If we look at the context of the ayah that was revealed on hijab, we can easily find the reasoning within. The ayah was revealed when the wives of the women went out and were constantly harrassed/teased by 'non muslim' awaara type men on the street. When the women complained to the Prophet (saw), and these men were confronted, they're excuse would always be that they didnt know these women were muslim. Hence this ayah was revealed for the believing women to cover themselves so that they stand out as muslim women.
I think the 'modesty' factor was emphasised on long before this ayah was revealed.
no offense but i dono wuts up with antibol. koi achi baat kar raha hai toh karne doh. if ur not interested in the topic, just ignore. nobody is forcing u to read it. everybody doesnt think like u n u should respect that.
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*Originally posted by Ma Mooli: *
I think your concept of hijab is a little lacking. You'll find that Hijab is fardh for men and women, and that despite the bigger emphasis, the clothing are just a small part of it.
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bibi i was just being very sarcastic. of course i know that hijab is for both of us, and it's much more than just clothing, but try telling that to the same guys who leer at girls and talk trash about the "slutty" ones while bashing on the hijabis coz they're talking to a guy, or astaghfirullah their not wearing a fulll burka
Re: Re: Only A Head Covering?
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*Originally posted by antiobl: *
I am not sure what's the fascination with the topic of Hijab.
FYI, Hijab is something very personal. Wrapping it with Quran or Hadees and then discussing it on a public forum is kind of distasteful. It is like discussing your favorite brand of floss or toothpaste with 10,000 people.
Fashions and trends will always change. Modesty will always be appreciated. Beyond that, forcing a veil on woman is simply MAToos Munkee business.
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anti-obl, you're right. Hijab is a very personal thing and it's a private choice, something that should never be forced upon anyone, but at the same time it's such a public thing coz everyone knows it when they see you. no one has to know u pray five times a day, or read quran or anything.
ma mooli,
hijab is the face covering which is neither fardh for the men? or the women.
Khimaar (head covering) and jilbaab (body covering) are both fardh for a woman to wear when she leaves her house and not inside her house.
There is a difference between reason(illa) and wisdom(hikmah). If we give a reason for an ayah then we would be sinful because we have no proof from Allah for that because Allah(swt) gives reasons for some ayahs and not for others.
For example if we say the reason behind the khimaar and jilbaab is to stop the bad gaze from some men then why shouldn't men or children wear something similar to protect themselves from homosexuals and paedophiles? what about the bad gaze from other women?
When Allah(swt) gives reasons such as the ayah about the Jummah prayer in which the reason to leave off trade is so that you do not miss the Jummah prayer it then makes sense for us to say I can't go shopping or etc because I don't want to miss the Jummah prayer even though it doesn't say don't go shopping so that you don't miss Jummah because the reason is being fulfilled.
i didn;t mean to interrupt between the argument going here.. but couldn;t resist myself so..
here is the way i think...and plz tell me if u agree or not with me and why... (i'm not forcing someone.)
ALLAH has commanded women to do hijaab, parda, covering whatever u want to call it very clearly in Quran as well as Hadith..
now intead of argument whether it should be done or not or putting it in a personal choice category. why not we simply follow the orders?? and then there is no point for argument on this topic..order is order and we have to do it like wise we do our five prayers and other ibaadah and dealings...... now all the people coming up with thier proofs and opinions are baseless..since its ALLAH's order and nobody's opinion or proves r better than orders of ALLAh in any way. and we have to follow HIS orders without thinking of reasons..
even if u struggling very hard or tired of struggling with it ..or for whatever reason u might have.. u have to do it..it is simple as its sounds...its not the matter of choice...its either obey the rule or break the rule..
now somebody said women of 21st century think this and that..it doesn;t matter if it is a women of 14th century, 21st or 50th century..rules are going to be same for all the women till Qiamah...
i personally think (no offence to anybody) we are just finding excuses on the name of modesty today, to do what we want..or to give our hearts comfort that whatever we are doing is right since i'm modest muslim..dear brothers and sisters. believe me We Are Decieving Ourselves... we can;t be wiser than ALLAH and Prophet MUHAMMAD (p.b.u.h) ..didn;t they know 21st century will come???? ALLAH has said.. HE liked this relegion for us..(more less meaning)
ALLAh may show us the right path and forgive my shortcomings...
sara: well thats a relief. For a minute there i was stumped. i dinn know your previous stance to pick up on your sarcasm. Soz.
Raihan,
When i mentioned hijab, i do not mean it in the literal way, but in the overall sense, be it lowering your gaze, decently dressed, not going to certain gathering etc. which applies to both men and women. Also, I dont believe the covering of the face or the jilbab is actually fardh, recomended maybe, but not fardh.
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There is a difference between reason(illa) and wisdom(hikmah). If we give a reason for an ayah then we would be sinful because we have no proof from Allah for that because Allah(swt) gives reasons for some ayahs and not for others.
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Im really not convinced that is the case. Blind following is not an Islamic tradition and its incumbent on a muslim to find out the reasoning for everything they're expected to do. Do you see the point of an adult wearing hijab (literal version) and yet is clueless of its significance?
The hijab without understanding will most likely be temporary (and perhaps more damaging), whereas the hijab with conviction is most likely to be forever.
Coming back to the point; my reasoning to the ayah of hijab was taken within context so i dont see the problem with it. Do you believe the context i gave to be incorrect?
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For example if we say the reason behind the khimaar and jilbaab is to stop the bad gaze from some men then why shouldn't men or children wear something similar to protect themselves from homosexuals and paedophiles? what about the bad gaze from other women?
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I agree. I dont believe the hijab is a physical barrier/protection from the bad gaze of men/women, but more of a symbol that he/she stands out as a 'follower of Islam' and psychologically, it gives you a subconscious kick in the mind, when you're doing something you really shouldn't be.
You're right though, Hijab isnt something that will stop neither a peado, a pervert or a rapist and its not designed to either.
ma mooli,
sara wasn't being sarcastic read her post again.
Anyhow, I didn't say that a face covering (hijab) was fardh. The khimaar and jilbaab is fardh.
We shouldn't make up meanings for words, we should always take the Islamic meaning. If we have a vague understanding of some words then we will have a vague understanding of Islam.
I don't think you know how Qiyas (Analogy) works?
In Qiyas we take the illa( the reason Allah(swt) gives for a command) of the ayah and apply it on a situation where either the same reason of the ayah is going to be the result which we want to prevent or we want the same reason to be the result.
It would be valid to say that the hikmah of the command is modesty or a reminder of Allah but not the reason because of its implications in hukm shari.
What is the reason behind prayer is it exercise? Why not play squash or go for a jog instead? Why pray four rakats of fardh prayer for Asr and not one? You see there are some commands for which Allah(swt) has not given reasons although we can see the hikmah behind them just as there are some commands where Allah(swt) gave us reasons for.
yes, i was being sarcastic. i would know better htan you, now wouldn’t i? 
sara,
sorry I read the post above mine and not the one above that 
i agree with some points made my smooth_guy and other pple. I am canadian, muslim but do not wear the hijab. This is because I dont believe I am ready for it. I can admit that I do not have the courage to wear one. I am not saying that I'm ashamed of being muslim, nor do i care about what other people have to think about me. Its just that I do not want to be a hypocrite. Mind you, there are some girls that wear the hijab (some forced to, some not), but not wearing it the proper way. I know a girl that wears a scarf but then ties it behind her head (behind her ears). She used to wear it the "proper way", with her ears and neck covered. But then I guess she decided that she wanted to wear earrings and necklaces. So you tell me, is that the proper way of wearing hijab/scarf? In my opinion, its more of a fashion statement these days (wearing the hijab/scarf). I have seen some nonmuslim pple wearing it as well.
anyways, im getting off track. I also do not like it when girls wear on the tight clothes, half sleeves and wear the scarf..whats the point? But like i alwasy say: I am not the one to judge; thats up to Allah. I dont want act like any "taliban".
I liked what one person said in this forum: something about being modest is not only about wearing the hijab, but about our way of life. I know im a good muslim, and not wearing the scarf does make me a bad muslim. I know that wearing it will make me a better muslim, thats for sure.
I guess i shouldnt have said "the courage to wear one"...i do have courage, i just dotn want to be a hypocrite; frankly im not ready to wear it...cuz i still like to wear half sleeves and streak my hair and such....does anyone know what im saying? or am I just rambling as usual???????