Number of Sons:Hadrat Ali :razi:

[Marbles]

Re: Number of Sons:Hadrat Ali

@bao bihari

Few points–

So it was only AFTER Karbala that they realised that they hate Khulfae rashideen(first three) , where as they had no role in the martyrdom of Hadrat Hussain

No it wasn’t right after Karbala when Shia changed their attitudes towards the names of few personalities they disassociated themselves from. It was quite later on in history, probably after the occultation of Imam Mahdi [as].

It is to be noted that nearly all other shia imams also named thier children after these sahbah- It is very subjective to state that shias all of a sudden changed course and did not named thier children after them whereas on the contrary i can more safely assume that these noble personalities ( shia imams) actually loved khulfa e rashideen so much that they named thier children after them.

It should not be forgotten that Muaviyah started a tradition of cursing and abusing Imam 'Ali and Ahl-e-bait from the pulpits of mosques and this despicable and obnoxious tradition thrived for nearly 70 years or so untill it was stopped by Umar ibn-e-Abdul Azeez [may Allah reward him for this]

[To push the argument further, just check how the writer of one of the Sahih Sunni books, Nisai’i died]

It was this period when Ahl-e-bait had nowhere to hide. Their scores were tortured and murdered including the events of Karbala. There was a time when Shia or other Muslims couldn’t name their childern as either 'Ali, Hassan, Hussain, Fatima, Zainab etc. On the orders of Imams, most Shia migrated to distant lands including Persia and India where they found some relief. Just check the period of Ummayad history and you’ll know what was heppening to Ahl-e-bait and their followers at that time.

Now, putting your question in context, in such a political environment, many Shia refrained from naming their childern on Ahl-e-bait names. Instead, the named them as Umars, Uthmans, Muaviyah, Ziyad, Sa’ad, Zubair etc. and it was also done on the orders of Imam to save the people from Ummayad wrath. It was that period of time when Taqqiyah was most practised among Shia due to the threats to their lives.

One event would suffice. Although I exactly don’t remember in whose time it happend and with whom it happened, but it was surely Ummayad time. Ummayad governer of some province came to know that there’s a person in town whose name is 'Ali. He summoned the person to find out if he was 'Ali’s Shia !!!] [That person was Shi’i]. But when he was brought to the governor and questioned. He said no my name is not 'Ali but 'Ulay. They are spelled in the same way but pronounced differently.

Did you see the animosity of Ummayads towards the house of Ali and Ahl-e-bait [as]. This was the atmosphere of early Muslims and this was their faith and conduct.

I hope you can now understand why years and centuries even after karbala, Shia continued to name their sons on the names of the enemies of Ahl-e-bait [as]

BHai meray abb wo nam to change kernay say rahay

we are discussing why some people were named **after **sahabhand not why some of them had common names.
Hadrat Hussain had differences with tyrant and not with some particular group (Ummayad) , how can you assume that shudah e karbala had differences with Khulfa e rashideen.?

This is not the point bro. I’m saying that IF the martyrs of Karbala, who had names like Muaviyah, Yazid, Ziyad etc had no differences with Muaviyah and Yazid [and surely they had otherwise they would have been with Yazid] then why they were named on their enemies’ names?

The answer is quite simple. The name Muaviyah and Yazid were not hated at that time. It was the character of the person which was despised. The hate for these names is a matter which emerged centuries later.

Please shed more light on what he actually said. and the authenticity of these narrations also please tell me how these chain of ravis reach Hadrat Ali ?

Jazakallah

The exchange of letters with Muaviyah and Muhammad [ra] bin Abu Bakar is recorded in history books. Since I do not have the references at hand,[since I read the books years ago] I’m unable to provide them. Though I will try hunting them down and get back to you as soon as possible. Send me a reminder via PM so that I remember.

These references are from Sunni historians who have recoreded the letters.

Wasslam