Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
^ see, i find that more reflective of cultural identity, more than religious identity, which is fine too :)
aaliyah, yeah... gabriella is very anglo. i see where you're coming from but for a desi kid, it might be a bit much! ;)
very sensible reply.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
those names won't make you look any less desi..
are you suggesting that people using non-desi names are trying to look less desi or are you suggesting that you can still look desi if you have a non-desi name?
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
Incredible amount of misinformation in here. The fact that "Islamic" is being used interchangeably with "Arabic" is the biggest thing. If someone is English speaking, and names their son Noah, after the Muslim prophet, then it doesn't matter if they pronounce it Nuh, Noah, or that name in any other language. Naming your children after prophets is liked in Islam. Naming your children Arabic names has nothing to do with it. What if you can't pronounce 'Isa, with the Arabic letter Ain. Is it better to never pronounce your child's name right because you chose to name him in a language you don't speak? Of course not. Many of us attribute Arabic culture or langauge to Islam, but remember, they can be separate. Arabic was just the language the Qur'an was revealed in because Allah said that area needed the message the most.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
^ I actually don't agree. The reason you stated is not the only reason why Arabic was chosen as the language of the Qur'an. There was greater wisdom in this as well. Also learning Arabic and reading the Quran is Arabic is very important as well. If it were the case you mentioned, anyone could read the Qur'an in their own language and that would be it. But Muslims are meant to learn Arabic. There is an hadith that states that the best of you is one that LEARNS the Qur'an and teaches it to others. Also another hadith states that there is double the reward for a Muslim who has difficulty in reading the Qur'an than the one who reads the Qur'an without difficulty (not the exact wording of the hadith, but a jist). Therefore, learning Arabic, having Arabic names is important as well.
Yes, there are difference in Arab Culture and Islam, but the Arabic language is essential in Islam.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
I sometimes regret agreeing to have "Noor" as my daughter's first name rather than "Onaysa" as I was originally insisting eight years ago. There are so many Noors.....but very few Onaysas.
And ultimately I keep in mind that on that final day of judgement my child will be called out by the name that we have chosen.....and I want no confusion about her faith at that time. LOL.
Whats the meaning of onaysa?
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
^ I actually don't agree. The reason you stated is not the only reason why Arabic was chosen as the language of the Qur'an. There was greater wisdom in this as well. Also learning Arabic and reading the Quran is Arabic is very important as well. If it were the case you mentioned, anyone could read the Qur'an in their own language and that would be it. But Muslims are meant to learn Arabic. There is an hadith that states that the best of you is one that LEARNS the Qur'an and teaches it to others. Also another hadith states that there is double the reward for a Muslim who has difficulty in reading the Qur'an than the one who reads the Qur'an without difficulty (not the exact wording of the hadith, but a jist). Therefore, learning Arabic, having Arabic names is important as well.
Yes, there are difference in Arab Culture and Islam, but the Arabic language is essential in Islam.
It's true that I'm simplifying it, but I figured I would do so to enforce the point about naming. Of course it's beneficial for us to learn Arabic, but that doesn't mean that we should name our children in Arabic. I'd rather have a non-arabic speaking friend or relative call my son Solomon, rather than Soolayman, if they can't pronounce it properly. That doesn't make his name any less prophetic, when the prophet Sulaiman/Solomon/Shlomo/Salman is the one used for the name.
Should we only call Saudi Arabia "S'aoodi", or Syria "Sooriya" because that's what the arabs call them? Then should we learn enough of the local language of all countries, so we only call them what the locals call it?
We're both guilty of mixing the issues here, 1) learning Arabic from an Islamic perspective, and 2) naming our children in our native tongues vs. Arabic. To my knowledge, there is absolutely nothing that states a person must, or even should name their child with only Arabic names. In fact, by naming a child after a prophet in your mother tongue, you will allow more people to understand that you have named them out of respect and character embodied by those prophets.
Again, I refer to 'Isa. How many non-arabic speakers properly pronounce 'Isa, or have a clue what it means? It isn't "holier" if a parent butchers the pronunciation of their child's name in Arabic, it's foolish, and some people, no matter how hard they try, struggle with Ain, Ghain, Daad, Ta, Tha, and other letters unique to Arabic. Should they all only name their kids Musa and Adam, since it's among the easiest to pronounce?
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
I never said it is fardh or one must have to name their chidren Arabic names. It is just beneficial and better if they do.
And this whole issue with people mis-pronoucing names...honestly, i just dont buy it anymore. What is so hard telling people how to pronouce a child's name? especially the non-muslim people. Why should we be molding ourselves to fit their norms and pronounciation? There are so many famous people with muslim names and even non-muslim unusual names and we learn how to pronounce it because that is their name.
and the way other people mis-prounounce names is because of the spelling. Spell the name to how it's supposed to be pronounced, not how nice it looks. If someone needs to add the extra "a" or 'i" in order to pronounce it as it should, then do it.
I would rather have my children have Arabic Muslims names after the Prophets and Great Sahabas. I would want my children to know the meaning behind their names, know what the story of their namesake and have the confidence to tell other people how to pronounce their names to other people.
also just wanted to add that I'm no Shaykh to issue any fatwa...this is just my own opinion and my own reasoning why I would prefer to name my children Islamic Arabic names. Heck, I don't even like my own name and I tell my parents this all the time lol.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
whats to say the arabic form is the correct form?
does not matter really, people can do it for cultural reasons I suppose
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
afshi, i'm curious how its better/beneficial to name them in arabic?
i named my kid the english version of an angel's name but that doesn't mean he isn't going to know the significance of the name or that it will be any less meaningful or special to him or me.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
Gabriel?
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
While i agree that there is no obligation to give an arabic name to child, but why would a desi give an English name to their child? Why not give desi name instead like Boota, Allah Rakha, Allah Ditta
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
I never said it is fardh or one must have to name their chidren Arabic names. It is just beneficial and better if they do.
And this whole issue with people mis-pronoucing names...honestly, i just dont buy it anymore. What is so hard telling people how to pronouce a child's name? especially the non-muslim people. Why should we be molding ourselves to fit their norms and pronounciation? There are so many famous people with muslim names and even non-muslim unusual names and we learn how to pronounce it because that is their name.
and the way other people mis-prounounce names is because of the spelling. Spell the name to how it's supposed to be pronounced, not how nice it looks. If someone needs to add the extra "a" or 'i" in order to pronounce it as it should, then do it.
I would rather have my children have Arabic Muslims names after the Prophets and Great Sahabas. I would want my children to know the meaning behind their names, know what the story of their namesake and have the confidence to tell other people how to pronounce their names to other people.
also just wanted to add that I'm no Shaykh to issue any fatwa...this is just my own opinion and my own reasoning why I would prefer to name my children Islamic Arabic names. Heck, I don't even like my own name and I tell my parents this all the time lol.
Because names make all the difference. There are studies that show that applicants with the same qualifications but different names have vastly different results. The "white" sounding name always gets more interviews. Also, a name that is difficult to pronounce can affect the child socially. They might become withdrawn or resentful of their name. This is not a fact, but I've seen people with difficult names who are annoyed and embarrassed at having to repeat their name to everyone they meet.
Parents should give serious consideration to what they name their children. If you live in a western country, then giving your child a western sounding name shouldn't be out of the question.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
[QUOTE]
Afshi wrote: I never said it is fardh or one must have to name their chidren Arabic names. It is just beneficial and better if they do.
And this whole issue with people mis-pronoucing names...honestly, i just dont buy it anymore. What is so hard telling people how to pronouce a child's name? especially the non-muslim people. Why should we be molding ourselves to fit their norms and pronounciation? There are so many famous people with muslim names and even non-muslim unusual names and we learn how to pronounce it because that is their name.
[/QUOTE]
-People have varying degrees of ability to learn new languages and sounds. MashaAllah it sounds like language is something that is easy for you, but I know a lot of reverts who really struggle even reciting fatihah properly (although in their defense, I also know many born and raised Arabs who have defects in their recitation). In fact, this is paklinks, look no further than the way that many desis substitute Z for the letter Tha (Sirat al-aZeena..). If they are reciting the Qur'an incorrectly, may Allah guide them to what is better. This is a big deal, not the language origin of a child's name. There are more and more reverts these days who do not have Arabic training. To tell them their only correct option is to name children according to Arabic, doesn't seem correct. How many of us even take the time to properly pronounce Muhammad (PBUH) with the "HA" and dumma on the second "m"?
[QUOTE]
Afshi wrote: and the way other people mis-prounounce names is because of the spelling. Spell the name to how it's supposed to be pronounced, not how nice it looks. If someone needs to add the extra "a" or 'i" in order to pronounce it as it should, then do it.
[/QUOTE]
-Please transliterate Ain. Is it 'ain? And if so, not only would arabs not recognize it because it's transliterated, but English speakers would likely have no idea how to read the ' mark. Is it a pause? Is it a stop? No, in fact it's a sound that does not exist in most Western languages.
[QUOTE]
Afshi wrote:I would rather have my children have Arabic Muslims names after the Prophets and Great Sahabas. I would want my children to know the meaning behind their names, know what the story of their namesake and have the confidence to tell other people how to pronounce their names to other people
[/QUOTE]
.
-I don't mean to come across as rude, but how do you think the people of Prophet Moses (Musa)'s time called him? I can be fairly certain it wasn't in Arabic. How about Nuh, or Sulaiman, or further back with Adam? Did the Jews and Romans call Jesus 'Isa? No. So saying that the prophets we share with ahlil-kitaab only have proper names in Arabic is entirely false.
[QUOTE]
Afshi wrote: also just wanted to add that I'm no Shaykh to issue any fatwa...this is just my own opinion and my own reasoning why I would prefer to name my children Islamic Arabic names. Heck, I don't even like my own name and I tell my parents this all the time lol.
[/QUOTE]
-Haa haa. I can definitely relate. I wouldn't even consider myself a student of knowledge, I know so little. I just think we should be reserved in saying that Arabic names are more beloved Islamically, because that's not always true. Islamic names are beloved Islamically. If they happen to be in Chinese, they are still Islamic.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
There is simply no right answer to 'give your child a name that makes it easier for people to pronounce it' argument. What if you give your child an English name but later he moves to France where no one can pronounce his name in oh so perfect Anglicized accent and pronunciation?
I guess Europeans living in England should stop giving their childern European names and simply stick with good old John, James, Lisa, Margret etc etc.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
There is simply no right answer to 'give your child a name that makes easier for people to pronounce' argument. What if you give your child an English name but later he moves to France where no one can pronounce his name in oh so perfect Anglicized accent and pronunciation?
I guess Europeans living in England should stop giving their child European names and simply stick with John, James, Lisa, Margret etc etc.
But it would be important for a parent to be able to pronounce their own child's name, no?
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
Gabriel?
thats it
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
While i agree that there is no obligation to give an arabic name to child, but why would a desi give an English name to their child? Why not give desi name instead like Boota, Allah Rakha, Allah Ditta
my husband is non-desi and it was important both sides understood and could pronounce the name. jibraeel would have been too complex for his mainly non-english speaking family. heck, even in my family, it would have become jib-reel. my own name has been mispronounced so many times even though its a fairly common desi name, i just didn't want the kid to go through that.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
afshi, i'm curious how its better/beneficial to name them in arabic?
i named my kid the english version of an angel's name but that doesn't mean he isn't going to know the significance of the name or that it will be any less meaningful or special to him or me.
I'm not talking about benficial from Allah. . Allah knows best about that. I was talking about in terms of other people identifying them as being a Muslim.
Again, my point is that a child's name doesn't have to Arabic. My point is that I would want my child to have a name that can be easily identified with being Muslim. If one doesn't look like a Muslim from the outside (ie. not wearing hijab, wearing topi and beard, etc etc), the only other way of identifying ourselves as being Muslim is our name.
This whole concept of people choosing names to make it easier for other people to pronounce isn't good enough. Like Choobacca said, a lot of people cant even pronounce Muhammad correct, but it's the most popular name in the world.
Look at African Amercians. A lot of them have Muslim names even though many of them are not even Muslim. Even famous people have Muslim names, like Aaliyah, Omar Epps, Aisha Tyler for example.
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
- -I don't mean to come across as rude, but how do you think the people of Prophet Moses (Musa)'s time called him? I can be fairly certain it wasn't in Arabic. How about Nuh, or Sulaiman, or further back with Adam? Did the Jews and Romans call Jesus 'Isa? No. So saying that the prophets we share with ahlil-kitaab only have proper names in Arabic is entirely false. .
Good point, but no matter how were they originally pronounced, we all know that they were referred as Musa and Nuh in Quran. When we give the same pronunciation to our kids's name, we are just trying to bring the same blessing in their life that we get by reading Quran. By that I mean that no matter how these names were pronounced by the nation of those prophets, at the end Allah (and hence Quran) chose to pronounce them this way. Should not we strive to follow that pronunciation, even if we cannot pronounce 'Ha' with right makhraj and dumma on the second "m"
Re: naming after a Prophet, but the "English" form of it
exactly my point TLK. I was just going to write somethign similar. :)