You are just being stupidly stubborn and everyone can see that. 1965 is the discussion point here but you keep harking about 1971 war because you have nothing else to back up your point. You are a typical Army hating Jiyala who is obsessed with lying to with pin 1971 war defeat on Army because it helps dilute the role of ZAB in bringing the war.
I was responding to your stupid retard response about India's taking Pakistan's cities. No India never took any Pakistani city. It was always Pakis who gave more than half of Pakistan as 'charity' to India.
Yeah right they just crossed the border to see Shalimar gardens in Lahore and return to their own border after a day out in Lahore. Also by mistake their tanks headed towards Sialkot in their hundreds when they actually were going to a repair shop near the border for the six monthly service. You are quite right.
Even I agree with you, the fact remains about giving more than half of Pakistan to India by Pakistanis. Had army not surrendered there, East Pakistan would have still be part of Pakistan.
Even I agree with you, the fact remains about giving more than half of Pakistan to India by Pakistanis. Had army not surrendered there, East Pakistan would have still be part of Pakistan.
Mera bhai, the reason the surrendered was because they had already lost... There was no way they could have won against the Indians on the one hand and local resistance on the other. They had no reinforcements, their supply lines were cut, they had no position to retreat too... I was a lost cause.
Well, Indians didn't know the "love" of US for Pakistan. *From what I have read which could be wrong as well, Pakistan had used up 80% of their weapons while India had 80% still in reserve. * If only india knew and prolonged the war, the war would have ended in Pakistan and I don't know if Pakistanis in cities were too fond of urban warfare. Pakistan didn't have the extensive canal network then that it did make (lesson of 1965) so now a pattonagar would be arjunagar if India crossed into Pakistan. Of course, tactical nukes and ballistic missiles have cooled down any real action.
I don't know how true this information is, I have never come across this before, but Pakistan was definitely the weaker side and India knew this very well.
If India had 80% still in reserve and they were in a winning position - regardless of the reserve in Pakistan's kitty - India would have prolonged the war and imposed an undisputed humiliating defeat. Considering how intense the fighting got, even prolonging the war by couple of weeks to a month would have made significant difference. But they couldn't because they were not in winning position and Pakistan side was fighting well.
Jitnay munh utnee baatein but one thing comes out of all these articles, Pakistan did not badly lose the war, at best it was a draw but the fact that we stood up and defended our country against overwhelming odds was a victory. If Pakistan failed to capture Kashmir, India also failed to have tea in Lahore gymkhana which their generals were going to have within hours of crossing the Lahore border.
Not a real balance one. Though one thing is correctly mentioned. Pak keep celebrating 6 sep while india not. Maybe the reason is the army rule on pakistan for long time. They keep the dark side hidden.
Any ways as I said earlier, we won because we successfully defended ourself from a much power ful enemy thanks to our jawan warnah well settled back ground ke generals ne to mulk ganwa dia tha along with some politicians. India learn lesson and prepared well before next war while humari fuaji qayadat further aayashi main lag gai.
Mera bhai, the reason the surrendered was because they had already lost... There was no way they could have won against the Indians on the one hand and local resistance on the other. They had no reinforcements, their supply lines were cut, they had no position to retreat too... I was a lost cause.
No it was not lost. But since thread is for 1965 war, I would leave at that. On this point I will prove that you are wrong and your information is again based on false history.
Either our GS intellectuals are blind or they are injecting hate against army . 1965 war was a close contest, although no clear victory, but it was a moral victory for Pakistan, bcz pakistan being a smaller country held nerves against 10 times bigger india and posed a threat to them. Yes Operation Grand Salam was a failure but at the same time Operation Lahore was not successful either. India held a gain in Sialkot while Pakistan snatched areas of Rajistan. In air combat, PAF outshined Indian IAF, however. According to official indian version, india and pakistan lost 59 and 43 air crafts respectively. While according to Pakistani version, india and Pakistan lost 110 and 20 air crafts respectively. That telz you the story. Both countries resisted the invasion but credit goes to pakistan , considering the fact that being a smaller country, it gave beffiting answer and posed a threat.
nahin yeh baat nahin hay. The fact is that Operation Gibraltar and Operation Grand Slam were totally failure, which triggered 1965 war by India. There was totally intelligence failure and dictator’s inability to properly assess the situation before indulging in this adventurism.
^^Wikipedia is equal to Joth-Ka-Palandahh. Anyone can write anything.
You know why Western countries have progressed, and not 'Pakis' like Sacheydino because in Western countries, even the school children get their assignments disqualified for quoting Wikipedia. Haha.
Who the hell uses Wikipedia to argue 'serious' and 'truthful' history. What a joke.
You know why Western countries have progressed, and not 'Pakis' like Sacheydino because in Western countries, even the school children get their assignments disqualified for quoting Wikipedia. Haha.
Who the hell uses Wikipedia to argue 'serious' and 'truthful' history. What a joke.
Hehe, this guy is a real deal, should be made murga for quoting wikipedia. But then i think, his internal hate against Army is coming out. Let him do this. 2 mins silence for him
I don't know how true this information is, I have never come across this before, but Pakistan was definitely the weaker side and India knew this very well.
If India had 80% still in reserve and they were in a winning position - regardless of the reserve in Pakistan's kitty - India would have prolonged the war and imposed an undisputed humiliating defeat. Considering how intense the fighting got, even prolonging the war by couple of weeks to a month would have made significant difference. But they couldn't because they were not in winning position and Pakistan side was fighting well.
India didn't know the details then. They knew what they saw like indian pilots forgot to fire when they couldn't look at the glare of the Starfighter. India did learn and did better in 1971 while PAF still was buying Sabres after 1965!
Jitnay munh utnee baatein but one thing comes out of all these articles, Pakistan did not badly lose the war, at best it was a draw but the fact that we stood up and defended our country against overwhelming odds was a victory. If Pakistan failed to capture Kashmir, India also failed to have tea in Lahore gymkhana which their generals were going to have within hours of crossing the Lahore border.
Its good that we are living in an era, where this 'jitne munh itni baaten' can be practiced. Otherwise, the old generations were provided daily dose of government lies saying 'sab acha hai, hum jeet rahe hain' and next day 'its all over'.
The OPs article is right enough that popular version of history told to public (whether through text books or media) is not reliable. There remained huge censorship policy for the people who want to talk alternate history. Even Hamood u Rehman Commission report remained unpublished for decades. Wusatullah Khan's column in my post above, also refer to a 600+ pages thesis on 1965 by a retired general, which could not be published. This says all about our willingness to hear and truth.
For us, all the sources which boost our bloody ego are bible and anything telling alternate history is bu11****.
We did missed our target (Kashmir) in 1965 and Kashmiris have sacrificed their 3-4 generations, but still the matter is unresolved. What victory we are celebrating? Is it poverty that dances on both sides of the border or is it dearth of basic necessities in so called nuclear states that we are proud of?
Refrain from personal attacks pls and focus on the discussion.
Mere Bhai, it seems you never read Miyan Muhammad Bux saying 'keekar te angoor chaRhya'. Demanding civilized discussion without personal attacks from certain posters in PA is like 'bhens ke aage been bajana'.
Shamraz..once said about India being a beggar cause it got grants of 66 (Some figure) and Pakistan got grants of 44(some figure)…Thereby making India a bigger beeger for begging .5 time more for a country’s size as stated above…
And..some applauded…
