Pakistan’s economic system has failed to provide the basic needs of people, forget giving them the social mobility. Besides I think its unfair to say that Pakistan based Pakistani should “stay there” when at one point or another all of our parents/grandparents migrated out.
You are right about the 2nd and 3rd generation, which is why I question classifying them as Pakistanis anyway? If they have lost contact with Pakistan and might named Akram Khan or whatever, yet deal drugs, have a white girlfriend or two, smoke cannabis/drink heavily, and other chavvy behavior, call him a Bradistani but how is he Pakistani? Of course I an hugely stereotyping but unfortunately white British see more of Akram Khan and less of Mr. Mohammad, the City banker with a proper Pakistani wife, who visits Pakistan 3 times a year and financially supports his extended family and has opened up a school for kids.
I went to school in Harrow and I have seen both ends of the spectrum. Unfortunately the London Pakistanis are overshadowed by the Paks up north, where economic deprivation and anti-social behavior is higher.
Also, since we are on the Oslo thread, I do want to mention that there is a pretty strong Baloch community up there – they don’t necessarily identify themselves s Pakistanis though.
Pakistan will get some benefit from people who migrate financially but we do not have the right to migrate to Europe. It does not matter if Europe is rich we are not entitled to their wealth and enjoy the privileges here.
99% of Pakistanis want to get out. If they all got out it would create a huge burden on Europe. Its not just one perons leaving but then we bring our wives and children and if possible parents. Once we are here other than visit visas very few of us go back and it is a very expensive process sending us back too.
Even now I know of dozens of students have come over the last year - in the hard times! Yes they fund the education system here but then they also keep wages down and compete with people for jobs.
That description of Akram Khan reminds me of the white man wannabe’s in Pakistan too.
The population is growing fast here and the government has to cut back on immigration considerably. What is the point of having a highly skilled migrants programme when most of those people get jobs in security or supermarkets? It is very unfair to 3rd world and developing countries who face a brain drain. To get a HSMP visa you need a good job and good wage - why are these people in good positions over there greedy to leave?
I suppose it is ok for me to complain and already here. My father and relations left because we really had no place in Pakistan. Their background was poor and we would not have the chance to progress. Over there you need money to get out of your situation. I doubt I would have been on the internet if they did not leave.
I definitely give you credit for being exceptionally up front – we might see this from a different perspective but I know where you are coming from.
You are absolutely right in stating that we do have a “right” to migrate to Europe and enjoy their wealth and privileges, however economically speaking Europe is getting older and older – they are having less children and their social systems are being strained by this skew towards pensioners. Mind you, this is happening whether Pakistanis are allowed in or not. I know that Europeans would rather see other “whites” come to their country over Pakistanis and other migrants. If you notice the Eastwards expansion of the European Union, plenty of it had to do with bringing in cheaper labor and having additional areas for producing goods and services. Of course this hasn’t stopped Londoners from complaining about the Polish invasion.
Returning to the main point: It appears that much of Western Europe needs migrants for the reasons described above, so I forward the argument: Why not Pakistanis? Having more Pakistanis migrate to Europe will not only mean better standards of living for those families but also more remittances and investments back in Pakistan. I know that the Pakistanis in Europe generally came from the underclass and their children have largely stayed in that mode – however it is still better than being deprived in Pakistan. Also, having lived in Europe, many Pakistanis who choose to return, end up bringing positive change to Pakistan. There are numerous examples of super markets and shops that have opened up in Islamabad and elsewhere. Mirpur look like a mirage city in the AJK, and Hayatabad near Pekhawar has seen a rise of Western style facilities. SO the benefits are there. Most of all who are we to deny other Pakistanis the opportunity to leave when our parents/grandparents did the same?
Regarding the brain drain: Yes it is happening in Pakistan, but that is due to the failure of the government and the dangerous environment there. Brain drain is not a permanent state though, it’s a fluid situation where I am sure many Overseas Pakistanis would readily return if the economic/safety conditions improve. India and China are both seeing their people return.
I think that the British government has every right to pick and choose who they would like to accept and from what I understand HSMP is designed towards that. Pakistanis should have an opportunity to apply and take advantage of that program. I don’t think that its just greed that is causing people to leave Pakistan – it’s the frustration with the country’s security situation, the load shedding, the corruption etc.
I was born in Switzerland. My grandfather also came from a very poor background in the tribal areas, but was able to access higher education in the UK and joined Pakistan’s foreign service, but he chose to retire and live in Pakistan. My father was also born abroad and he chose to settle in Switzerland. Most of my fathers family is scattered throughout Europe most because of my grandfathers choice to pursue higher education and the fact that he took advantage of the career opportunities presented to him. So coming from a very humble background (and we never forgot that) I am the last person to deny another Pakistani the same opportunity. Sure their kids can fail O Levels become chavs in Mannigham or attend Oxbridge and end up in Belgravia – who are we to decide?
if anyone is willing to excuse this deranged idiot's actions based on his 'personal experiences' then i suppose one would also have to excuse the behavior of all other monsters, from suicide bombers to gang bangers to mass murderers.
Large sections of major cities in the UK are becoming no-go areas for the "natives". What he predicts to be honest is almost true. There are over 1 million Pakistans in the UK and prob 1.5 million indians.
There is very little the Uk can do to stop the people coming. Most of these blame the capitalist and leftists saying they want to create a multi-cultural society with cheap labour........I do not know what is going on but the right wingers are right.......Europe is becoming Eurabia.
Most of this is rubbish. Most of the no go areas in the North of the England are because of mirpuri gangs who don't even consider themselves to be from Pakistan. Unfortunaely when gora people see a dark skinned person they automatically assume they are from Pakistan or India.