[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
And what point in PAk history there was Nationalism.
And if there was it beneficial to the country.
[/QUOTE]
that was what saved us from complete disintegration... Just compare ourselves with the old Caliphates, atleast we are in one piece right now. We have the best of both worlds, we have Islam, as well as our own country...
Maybe we should kick out all the Pakistan based Pakistani haters to India and Afghhanistan. Maybe we should let India and Afghanistan give the 'right' kind of treatment those Pakistan haters deserve. Maybe it's better if some people read Pakistani nationalism and history. Pakistan is a nation made FOR Muslims but it doesn't mean that our minorities deserve to be treated as outsiders. It's amazing to see Pakistanis whining and complaining in the West about the "racism and prejudices" when they call for the alienation of many Pakistani people.
Please define "Islam" does it include Shias, Ahmadis, Barelvis, Deobandis, Hanafis, and many others? Or are we further dividing Pakistanis as only Sunni Hanafis?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Maybe we should kick out all the Pakistan based Pakistani haters to India and Afghhanistan. Maybe we should let India and Afghanistan give the 'right' kind of treatment those Pakistan haters deserve. Maybe it's better if some people read Pakistani nationalism and history. Pakistan is a nation made FOR Muslims but it doesn't mean that our minorities deserve to be treated as outsiders. It's amazing to see Pakistanis whining and complaining in the West about the "racism and prejudices" when they call for the alienation of many Pakistani people.
Please define "Islam" does it include Shias, Ahmadis, Barelvis, Deobandis, Hanafis, and many others? Or are we further dividing Pakistanis as only Sunni Hanafis?
[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as PAK Nationalism.
I think this forum is the first place where i have
heard this Buzz word.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
that was what saved us from complete disintegration... Just compare ourselves with the old Caliphates, atleast we are in one piece right now. We have the best of both worlds, we have Islam, as well as our own country...
[/QUOTE]
Define nationalism in context of Pak history and present.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Maybe we should kick out all the Pakistan based Pakistani haters to India and Afghhanistan. Maybe we should let India and Afghanistan give the 'right' kind of treatment those Pakistan haters deserve. Maybe it's better if some people read Pakistani nationalism and history. Pakistan is a nation made FOR Muslims but it doesn't mean that our minorities deserve to be treated as outsiders. It's amazing to see Pakistanis whining and complaining in the West about the "racism and prejudices" when they call for the alienation of many Pakistani people.
Please define "Islam" does it include Shias, Ahmadis, Barelvis, Deobandis, Hanafis, and many others? Or are we further dividing Pakistanis as only Sunni Hanafis?
[/QUOTE]
irrelevant questions. pakistani muslims do not discriminate against minorities. and pakistani muslims do not treat them as outsiders.
what gave you that idea.
pak ko sirf Islam he UNITE rukh sakta ha.
and i think ppl like u who claim love for Indian ancestry should go back.
real Pakistanis don't talk like you. And Pak will never feel proud of
anything remotely associated to India.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
There is no such thing as PAK Nationalism.
I think this forum is the first place where i have
heard this Buzz word.
[/QUOTE]
Rehman1 ji, if you were/are not aware of the concept of Pakistani nationalism, it does'nt mean that it does not exist, it just means that (a)you were either not paying attention to your surrondings (b)you were outside the loop. You asked for a recent example of Pakistani nationalism, have you forgotten Afghanistan already? Good or bad, the sole reason we were ever involeved in Afghanistan is because of the fact that we have strategic interests in that country hence Pakistani nationalism. India has more Muslims than our land of pure, but we went to war with them on several occasion, and will not hesitate even for a second to nuke India or any other country for that matter, if we(the proud Pakistanis), feel that our national integrity is in jeapordy, hence once again Pakistani nationalism comes into play, an alien concept to you, but not to the world at large...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
irrelevant questions. pakistani muslims do not discriminate against minorities. and pakistani muslims do not treat them as outsiders.
what gave you that idea.
pak ko sirf Islam he UNITE rukh sakta ha.
and i think ppl like u who claim love for Indian ancestry should go back.
real Pakistanis don't talk like you. And Pak will never feel proud of
anything remotely associated to India.
[/QUOTE]
....And yet again the sarcasm was lost.
The root cause is not bengali nationalism. It was total pilitics from both sides.
If Benagalis had nationalistic view they would either cry for west bengal or they wouldnt vote for Muslim Pakisatn. This was not the case.
Moreover crying for Bangla language over Urdu cannot be nationalistic view. So far I know bengalis only wanted to have bengali as a state language. I wouldnt say it was denied by West pakistan rather by more upper level who planned the division and reunion since the 200 hundred years of colonization. The very idea of united muslim country had the foundation of Bengal, Dhaka. Now how did they become the culprit?
Well If bengalis were given a chance they would like to reunite with more larger islamic ummah by adopting Arabic script into bengal. Now thats not hard. Is it?
From the very begining British were against oriental teaching in subcontinent. Benagl was one of the breeding ground for oriental languages Farsi/Arabic in the subcontinent.......
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ZulfiOKC: *if you were/are not aware of the concept of Pakistani nationalism, it does'nt mean that it does exist, it just means that (a)you were either not paying attention to your surrondings (b)you were outside the loop
There is fault in your sentence. Correct it plz.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ZulfiOKC: *
Rehman1 ji, if you were/are not aware of the concept of Pakistani nationalism, it does'nt mean that it does exist, it just means that (a)you were either not paying attention to your surrondings (b)you were outside the loop. You asked for a recent example of Pakistani nationalism, have you forgotten Afghanistan already? Good or bad, the sole reason we were ever involeved in Afghanistan is because of the fact that we have strategic interests in that country hence pakistani nationalism. India has more Muslims than our land of pure, but we went to war with them on several occasion, and will not hesitate even for a second to nuke India or any other country for that matter, if we(the proud Pakistanis), feel that our national integrity is in jeapordy, hence once again Pakistani nationalism comes into play, an alien concept to you, but not to the world at large...
[/QUOTE]
I have spent most of my life in PAK. But i am curious that how much time did you spent in PAK. I think none. To me it seems that you are from India. Just trying to bring up alien concepts like Nationalism.
I doubt that you have ever read PAK Studies.
Read OUR PAK HISTORY AND PARTITON struggle and you will realize
that there is no such thing as Nationalism. 1945-46 elections, Allama Iqbals concept, 14 points, two nation theory,obejctive resolution, and 1973 constitution--none of them talks about Nationalism.
Your posts are arguments for the sake arguments.
They are without any substance.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
I have spent most of my life in PAK. But i am curious that how much time did you spent in PAK. I think none. To me it seems that you are from India. Just trying to bring up alien concepts like Nationalism.
I doubt that you have ever read PAK Studies.
Read OUR PAK HISTORY AND PARTITON struggle and you will realize
that there is no such thing as Nationalism. 1945-46 elections, Allama Iqbals concept, 14 points, two nation theory,obejctive resolution, and 1973 constitution--none of them talks about Nationalism.
Your posts are arguments for the sake arguments.
They are without any substance.
[/QUOTE]
Rehman1 ji, dont try to side track the basic/valid discussion by asking me juvenile questions, like how much time I have spent in Pakistan, it's none of your concern, this is a discussion forum, where people from different walks of life visit and express their views on different concepts/ideas without passing juvenile comments, this is not cafe or general. As far as your comment goes about me not knowing the history of the Land of Pure, that's an assumption on your part, and far from reality, and once again shows that you are deliberately trying to side track the valid issues on this thread by posting personnal attacks. As far as me being from India, I'm not even going to reply to such a stupid question, go search all my previous posts and then decide for yourself, where I come from. By the way, welcome to Gupshup...
P.S. Benazir and Nawaz were PM's of our Land of Pure, but we all know how patriotic they were and how badly they raped our country, hence proving you wrong, that you dont become patriotic Pakistani by default just by living in Pakistan.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
To me it seems that you are from India.
[/QUOTE]
lo kar lo baat! Achey balley PAkistani ko indian banna daala
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
lo kar lo baat! Achey balley PAkistani ko indian banna daala
[/QUOTE]
Yara, initially I was thinking since he's a newbie, lets cut him some slack..but this getting just sad :D
Undeveloped countries need to focus all resources into economic and social causes. Religion should be kept in its place.
In the other thread he has declared you as Indian too 
Yeh din bhi dekhney ko milney the, the patriots of Pak Affairs termed as Indians
Reading the many comments posted here by the self interest modern smart Pakistani, I would like to add something-
When this nation was being created hundreds of Pakhtuns were rounded up in its support because it was a nation for the “Muslims”. Since it was going to be the Muslim heaven, the Pakhtun nation made grave sacrifices, one of which was to split their homes in half and separate from their brothers. Over time the Pakhtuns were encouraged by the Islamic chant to be used again and again under the drum beat of “ISLAMIC BROTHERHOOD” in Kashmir, Kargal, on the frontlines with India and as a proxy authority in Afghanistan.
In the early days of this nation, many Pakhtun intellectuals that considered the Pakhtun self interest were declared kafir and agents of the communist Russia i.e. Abdul Ghaffar Khan. That was achieved by bribing the MULLAHS (a tool still used against the Pakhtuns) by the masters of the nation of Pakistan the Raj, and later many educated Pakhtuns (the nonviolent red-shirts) murdered and jailed by the nation of Pakistan for the interest of this Islamic nation. Which cost the Pakhtun people an enlightenment of a life time, killing those intellectuals helped Pakhtuns remain ignorant and backward till this day. Those who were killed were the first in the Pakhtun nation to build schools and educational institutions in the heart of the Pakhtun lands. Today they rely on foreign languages i.e. URDU and foreign cultures to advance. All for the nation of Pakistan, the ISLAMIC NATION! Though the nation of Pakistan is not to blame alone here, because in some of this, the illiterate Pathans participated for the Muslim brother and ISLAM and their ISLAMICBROTHERHOOD!
Like the many members that said, that the interest of one self comes before the muslim brother, then the interest of the Pakhtun people I say comes before that of the Punjabi or that of the Pakistani nation. For the self interest of the Pakhtun, it is necessary to separate from the nation of Pakistan then, in order to promote their culture, their language, their heritage and ethnicity (which they don't hold in common with any other Pakistani except the Baloch people) since all that it is on the verge of demise. Unlike majority of the Pakistanis, Pakhtuns doesn’t carry any ties to the Hindu culture and the Hindu nation, therefore, it is in the best interest that the Pakhtuns of NWFP join their brethren across the evil line, since they all share the same ethnicity, same language, same culture, same heritage, history and let’s not forget, same religion, unlike that of the Punjabi.
So if we look at it, the Pakhtun as a people have paid a big price for this “NATION UNDER ALLAH” in the name of Islam, and all that gone in vain when we can clearly see that the average Pakistani of today can careless for the so-called “Islamic Unity” of this nation.
NOW
That might have pissed some people off, but I would like to call it a sweet reminder and an eye opener for those who talk a lot about “self interest” before the interest of a Muslim. If you as a Pakistani don’t like the sound of that, then keep your mouth shut and pray that Pakistan stays under One God Allah and remains a Muslim nation.
Self interest is a bad-bad-bad thing brothers, there are more people ahead of you in that line. Pray that you guys can dance along this “Islamic nation” dhool and do for a long long time, otherwise what I just stated above can be a reality of a matter of when, not if. Especially after what is happening today in NWFP with the Pakhtun people because again the Pakistani nation is pleasing its gura masters.
Before the topic is diverted yet again into another flame thread.
Nationalism is a disease that causes multiple problems, even in pakistan you have the regions squaring off against each other the NWFP, sind, punjab etc some of these have even called for independence!
Nationalism is a divisive idea not a uniting one!
Sultan
the challenge is when they become conflicting priorities, could you support a group while that group is working against you.
The question is also more of a primary responsibility, starting with family, neighbourhood, community etc..
the examples given were of peopel like saddam and arafat who have not supported pakistan the way they should have if we start talking about muslim bhai chara...
There is a difference in undermining a muslim brother, or helping him after u have helped yourself.
If Pakistan does something which is in its interests but does not undermine others, I do not see it as being wrong at all.
P.S. all this talk about pakhtoon unity.. where does that leave the non pakhtoon people like the uzbeks.. so we divide today on ethnic lines whats next tribal lines? the end state is every man for himself :)
it is in the best interest that the Pakhtuns of NWFP join their brethren across the evil line,
Evil line. Thats a good word for Durand line.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sultan Suri: *
Reading the many comments posted here by the self interest modern smart Pakistani, I would like to add something-
When this nation was being created hundreds of Pakhtuns were rounded up in its support because it was a nation for the “Muslims”. Since it was going to be the Muslim heaven, the Pakhtun nation made grave sacrifices, one of which was to split their homes in half and separate from their brothers. Over time the Pakhtuns were encouraged by the Islamic chant to be used again and again under the drum beat of “ISLAMIC BROTHERHOOD” in Kashmir, Kargal, on the frontlines with India and as a proxy authority in Afghanistan.
In the early days of this nation, many Pakhtun intellectuals that considered the Pakhtun self interest were declared kafir and agents of the communist Russia i.e. Abdul Ghaffar Khan. That was achieved by bribing the MULLAHS (a tool still used against the Pakhtuns) by the masters of the nation of Pakistan the Raj, and later many educated Pakhtuns (the nonviolent red-shirts) murdered and jailed by the nation of Pakistan for the interest of this Islamic nation. Which cost
the Pakhtun people an enlightenment of a life time, killing those intellectuals helped Pakhtuns remain ignorant and backward till this day. Those who were killed were the first in the Pakhtun nation to build schools and educational institutions in the heart of the Pakhtun lands. Today they rely on foreign languages i.e. URDU and foreign cultures to advance. All for the nation of Pakistan, the ISLAMIC NATION! Though the nation of Pakistan is not to blame alone here, because in some of this, the illiterate Pathans participated for the Muslim brother and ISLAM and their ISLAMICBROTHERHOOD!
Like the many members that said, that the interest of one self comes before the muslim brother, then the interest of the Pakhtun people I say comes before that of the Punjabi or that of the Pakistani nation. For the self interest of the Pakhtun, it is necessary to separate from the nation of Pakistan then, in order to promote their culture, their language, their heritage and ethnicity (which they don't hold in common with any other Pakistani except the Baloch people) since all that it is on the verge of demise. Unlike majority of the Pakistanis, Pakhtuns doesn’t carry any ties to the Hindu culture and the Hindu nation, therefore, it is in the best interest that the Pakhtuns of NWFP join their brethren across the evil line, since they all share the same ethnicity, same language, same culture, same heritage, history and let’s not forget, same religion, unlike that of the Punjabi.
So if we look at it, the Pakhtun as a people have paid a big price for this “NATION UNDER ALLAH” in the name of Islam, and all that gone in vain when we can clearly see that the average Pakistani of today can careless for the so-called “Islamic Unity” of this nation.
NOW
That might have pissed some people off, but I would like to call it a sweet reminder and an eye opener for those who talk a lot about “self interest” before the interest of a Muslim. If you as a Pakistani don’t like the sound of that, then keep your mouth shut and pray that Pakistan stays under One God Allah and remains a Muslim nation.
Self interest is a bad-bad-bad thing brothers, there are more people ahead of you in that line. Pray that you guys can dance along this “Islamic nation” dhool and do for a long long time, otherwise what I just stated above can be a reality of a matter of when, not if. Especially after what is happening today in NWFP with the Pakhtun people because again the Pakistani nation is pleasing its gura masters.
[/QUOTE]
I hope that we remain UNITED UNDER ALLAH. Ameen.
And self declared pundits leave our countryInfact i am sure they are not even in Pak. The so called EXPERTS ON PAK AFFAIRS and or racism/nationlism.Its easier for people to sit in North America and utter words like Geopolitics.Infact they are not even aware of what Pakistan stands for.The only thing that ties us is Islam.
In 1948, Pak won part of Kashmir because the Pathans helped the Kashmiris and Pakistanis. I am just curious, was it because of
Nationalism.I don't think so.