Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

I dont know what to tell ya… All I have been hearing is that Al Qaeda and Taliban are ruling the roost in the FATA and Army is helpless… Either Army is incapable of tackling the issue or they just dont want to…
But yeah I agree, its pretty frustrating.. I mean millions and millions of dollars spent on defense and for what?
But what other solution is there? If Pak army does it they will kill their own aswell, and if Americans do it the same will happen…

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

Pakpatriot it is very simple and doesn't need much deliberation to judge...

some elements (let us assume they are your own country men) are creating problems in your territory...how can you allow a foreign power to quel it instead of doing it yourself...can India allow USA to to do the job for it in Kashmir...can Russia allow another country to do so in Chichniya? Even the weakest country wouldn't tolerate this...?

if you are claiming jurisdiction over an area, you yourself are responsible for restoring order in it..otherwise you are not willing to do it and rather have some agenda to pursue at the cost of your own people...

unfortunately, many people from our area now think we are being pushed towards destruction...they think, it is another proxy war in which our area will be devastated...rulers are saying in private circles, they can do nothing if operations are launched...tommorrow if they started droping bombs on Peshawar, rulers will say they can't block them...so what is the use of citizenship...

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

i meant to say pashtuns didn't have a role in Kargal and insurgensies elsewhere e.g. kashmir

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

Yeah, so do Pashtuns still identify with the Taliban? What to Pashtuns think of Al Qaeda and Taliban being in FATA and making trouble for Afghanistan and PAKISTAN for that matter.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

LOTD's loyalties lie with the afghan bigoraz, it hurts him when a great leader like Musharraf sticks it up to those idiots.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

Karzai establishment and his cronies desperately need a villain. Its ‘poppy-dependent’ nascent system is juggling with a number of internal problems. Pakistan and India were ‘fortunate’ enough to find their mutual villains in each other. For Afganistan, choice was more ‘one-sided’. But it is understandable. With India providing massive support, they have turned against Pakistan, presenting her as the root of all evils. Historically, many regional and international powers have been involved in the the power-struggles there.

Pakistan has been home to millions of Afghan refugees since Russian invasion. Mr Karzai was also a refugee here, but maybe his ‘education’ in India or Indian consulates along the Pakistani border have some influence on his decision-making skills. He should at least be able to understand the complexity of the situation. For the first time in history, Pakistani forces have been deployed along a very porous and difficult border. A number of them have lost their lives after coming under attck. Look at the performance of other highly sourceful armies in Russia and Iraq.

He can not even eradicate the poppy cultivation in his country, and has the audacity to blame Pakistan for everything.

One thing both countries should understand is that they have a shared future. When I say ‘shared’, I do not mean that one culture or country would dominate the other. But there destinies are closely intertwined, like it or not. It is in the interest of both countries to show greater cooperation in fighting terror.

Musharraf.

Go ahead, even if it is difficult. :k:

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

A selective reading of history I see. While I’m not sure of any large scale clash, but there has been tension between Afghan refugees and Pakistanis, including Pashtuns. This is only natural when economic and cultural pressures collide. But as a whole, all of Pakistan has treated the Afghans fairly well. I doubt the same would have happened if the situation were reversed.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

Yes, I have witnessed this many times in NWFP. Here is a first hand account of an Afghan refugee.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/magazine/26taliban.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1141398316-7aGmmzFB8oYKUbMO0+L8aQ

**"Many of the Pakistani Pashtuns in Quetta were Communists, and they hated the Afghan refugees. They called us bagori, which means ‘escapees.’ I remember in school they’d call us puppets of the Americans. I got into a lot of fights with these people. **

It must also be remembered that most Afghan Pashtuns speak Dari (Afghan dialect of Persian) as a first language, which they consider far superior to Pashto, which is looked down upon.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

I REALLY don't care for Afghanis or Afghanistan. I'm sorry if that sounds bigoted but it's true.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

All these views tend to evaporate with the reality of fighting for jobs and livelihood with refugees.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

[quote=Reza Pahlavi]
Yes, I have witnessed this many times in NWFP. Here is a first hand account of an Afghan refugee.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/magazine/26taliban.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1141398316-7aGmmzFB8oYKUbMO0+L8aQ

**"Many of the Pakistani Pashtuns in Quetta were Communists, and they hated the Afghan refugees. They called us bagori, which means ‘escapees.’ I remember in school they’d call us puppets of the Americans. I got into a lot of fights with these people.

[quote]
**


How many of the Pashtuns of Baluchistan were communists by the way and how come PMAP supported Afghan refugees in Queta? Why are you generalizing a statement by an individual? Why can’t you quote a single instance of a clash between local Pashtuns and refugee Pashtuns?

By the way can you show me figures/statistics from authentic sources e.g. Pashto-speaking and Persian-speaking population break-up for individual provinces?

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

Pakpatriot, FATA and Taliban are just a cover. What is going on is linked to a broader conflict involving both big-time players and "small-timers". It is all fog currently but the situation will become clear probably by 2010-2015. After the collapse of USSR, zone of influences were re-demarcated in Eastern Europe and Balkans. Now Broader Middle East, Central Asia, and South Asia are the Arena. Gawadar is one wild link.

A friend who recently travelled in three agencies of FATA told me there is a whole new transformation. He told me the thousands of tribals he saw on the way only one person (in Muhmand Agency) carried a gun. They are now concerned about other things of life.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

[quote=LastOfTheDinosaurs]

[quote=Reza Pahlavi]
Yes, I have witnessed this many times in NWFP. Here is a first hand account of an Afghan refugee.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/magazine/26taliban.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1141398316-7aGmmzFB8oYKUbMO0+L8aQ

**"Many of the Pakistani Pashtuns in Quetta were Communists, and they hated the Afghan refugees. They called us bagori, which means ‘escapees.’ I remember in school they’d call us puppets of the Americans. I got into a lot of fights with these people. **

There are tons of sites from CIA to BBC’s site that talk about afghanistan and say dari is the main language!

Then you have people here attesting to the fact. In fact, it was taliban (kandharis) who forced pashtu on kabuls for example and now it is found that there is such a strong market for dari again and pashtu speakers from back in taliban days are marginilized!

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

We should ask Afghan government what IT has done to stop the infiltration, other than accusing Pakistan of not doing enough.
Oh, I know. The Afghan government is effectively a one-city government, and Karzai is more like mayor of Kabul than a president of the whole country. This Afghan government is incapable of doing anything, and relies on American military and Pakistan to let them govern Afghanistan.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

If you dont mind me asking… Are you Pashtun aswell?

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: “Put your own house in order”

So WHO are these so called Taliban and Al Qaeda running around? Are the Afghan refugees, Arabs, Chechens or all? Is there no local tribal involvment? If the Tribals want peace, why are they allowing these people in their midst and thus inviting trouble?

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

That is a great mystery. There is only one source of informationm.

[quote]

If the Tribals want peace, why are they allowing these people in their midst and thus inviting trouble?
[/quote]

I don't know what forced them to allow these people in their midset. May be at some future point, we may know the reality.

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

^What glorious revelation from god are we waiting for?! I mean, you sound like you have some suspicion of something big.. What up?

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

ANP president Asfandiyar Wali Khan calls the FATA situation a conspiracy against Pashtun nation. Read the following news.

*"Peshawar : Just days after the merger of the Pakhtoonkhawa Qaumi Party (PQP) with the Awami National party (ANP) led by Afzal Khan Lala and Asfayandar Wali Khan respectively a huge Pashtun convention in Peshawar has called for the elimination of the British-created imaginary Durand Line that has divided the Pashtu areas in Pakistan and Afghanistan for more than 100 years. *
*Speaking on the occasion after securing a unanimous show of hands for a resolution to remove the Durand Line, Asfayandar Wali Khan, the chief of the ANP, said that it was imperative to do away with the imaginery line. He said that this line had artificially seperated the Pashtu speaking people for over a century and now the time had come to eliminate it. *

*Giving the example of East and West Germany, he said that if the collapse of the controversially-erected Berlin Wall in the early 1990s has led to the creation of a unified Germany, he saw no reason why a separate state for Pakhtuns could not be created by wiping out the Durand Line. “ It's a line whose time has ended “, announced Asfander Wali Khan, who is the grandson of Khan Abdul Gafar Khan, the frontier Gandhi. *

*Extending an argument to support his claim, Asfayandar Wali Khan further went on to say that if Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf could open the Line of Control at different points to re-establish broken ties between Kashmiris separated from their kith and kin for several decades, he said the same procedure could be applied in the case of the Durand Line, created by the British. “ The Pashtu speaking people can no longer accept this imaginery division “, said Wali Khan. *
*The Durand Line is a term for the poorly marked 2,640-kilometer-long border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.After being defeated in two wars against Afghans, the British succeeded in 1893 in imposing the Durand Line dividing Afghanistan and what was then British India (now the North-West Frontier Province and Balochistan of Pakistan). The imaginary line was named after Sir Mortimer Durand, the then foreign secretary of the British Indian government. It was then agreed upon by representatives of both Afghanistan and the British Empire, but deeply resented by the Afghan Emir Abdur Rahman Khan.The border was drawn intentionally to cut through the Pashtun tribes whom the British feared and may have tried to disunite.The treaty was to stay in force for a 100-year period.This disputed land was legally to be returned to Afghanistan in 1993. *
*Asfander Wali Khan said that the philosophy of Pakhtoons revolved around the elimination of the Durand line to enable Pakhtoons living in the North West Frontier Province, Balochistan and in the tribal areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan to form a state of their own. *

*Khan also expressed his regret over the Pakistan Army's operations in the tribal areas, terming it as a “ conspiracy against the Pakhtoon nation”. If a dialogue between Pakistan and India on the Kashmir issue was possible, why could Islamabad not enter into a dialogue with Pashtun leaders to arrive at a solution to the crisis in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas or FATA, he added. *
*After Asfayandar's speech, speaker after speaker from various Pashtu and Balochi tribes endorsed the view for the creation of Pakhtunwa. They said that Pashtuns living on both sides of the Durand line would eventually merge together. *

The tribal convention organised by the ANP also demanded the restoration of peace in the tribal areas and an immediate end to army operations. The convention also demanded justified representation of tribesmen in the NWFP Assembly and the lifting of a ban on political activities in FATA. *
*A demand was also made for banning FM radio broadcasts in FATA, saying such broadcasts were fanning sectarianism in the tribal agencies. *
*The convention also condemned the killing of FATA tribal elders and urged the government to conduct an inquiry into the incidents, besides stopping miscreants from operating in the bordering areas."

Re: Musharraf to Karzai: "Put your own house in order"

^ LOTD,
Post the source pls...