I think morals is just one part of the equation. As ordinary masses, we'd like to think its very important... but those sitting in the Foreign office and GHQ and other real decision-making institutions, probably consider morality as a passing thought, and used only for public consumption in press statements ("principled stand" etc etc).
If it were a case of morality, then what did Pakistan government do when the Chinese government was prosecuting muslims in one of their provinces? Nothing much, because we have much more strategic interests with China which we can't bend just on the basis of morality.
The rules remain the same for every one even if some one is at the GHQ or at the foreign Office. I would say being in the seat of leadership the standards should be even higher...but ...the fact of the matter is the leaders are what we are, ever-bending.
If by our mistake we couldn’t stand out for muslims in China, it shouldn’t mean that we should not stand out for muslims again, its known as the concept of tub’ba.
My point is that if Allah has granted us this opportunity of being Muslims and Pakistanis, then he can always take that back as well.
Mini Me... I don't disagree with you. You take a morally pure approach. Which is fine, since your views are limited writing on a discussion forum. But when your views transcend the cyber world and actually make a difference for others in your community/nation there are infinitely more nuances which are and should be considered.
For example, the Talibaan took a morally pure approach. They said "provide us the evidence against OBL, or else he is a guest and we won't give him up". They will argue, that there is nothing morally or Islamically wrong with their approach. Look at the end result. Talibaan who ruled 80%+ of Afghanistan, are no longer in a position to implement Islam there. The resultant bombing destroyed the reminder of Afghanistan, killed hundreds and thousands of innocent people,, Talibaan themselves are now scattered as fractious war lords and an Amreeka-ka-chamcha Karazai is sitting in Kabul doing America's bidding. They knew all along that they are no match for America's superior military power but they decided to take a morally pure approach without considering the realities on the ground. They may go to jannat still, but they did manage to get thousands of their country-men and women and children killed. I am sure there are plenty of them who'd say this is all justified.
Here is a partial list of some of the "Islamic”countries that recognize Israel: Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Norway, Qatar.
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Madhanee bhai jaan.. Not to take anything away from your stellar commentary on the issue, I am sure the readers will like to know when did Norway join the elite group of "Islamic" countries? You do realize, ofcourse, that in Islam we are very concious of the protocol as to who joins and who can be kicked out. (The later more so than the former.) If Norwegians have the nerve to call themselves an "Islamic" country, I am sure a fatwa can be arranged very quickly to take care of it.
The idiot leaders of these muslim countries may have done secret handshakes with the occupying israeli state, but alhamdulilah the muslim ummah will never recognize this cancer called israel in the muslim lands!
I remember not too long ago some Israeli cricket team went to malaysia only to be faced with violent protests!
At a conference to promote peace between arabs and israelis in morrocco in winter of 2003 the israeli delegcation was beaten up by the morrocon delegation and algerian delegation with the kuwaitis and palestianions join in in for fun also.
The people have no intrest in recognizing the illegal occupying israelis.
Israel has a limited life span the people who cry israel is here to stay will realise eventually it is not, and the muslim populations cannnot wait for it to be extinguished fast enough!
Israel is always looking for states (especially Muslim ones) to recognize it, without whose recognition it will always feel vulnerable. But time and ground realities are not on Israel's side, and it has now entered it's twighlight years. Hence Pakistan or any or all other Muslim states recognzing it, will not make much difference in the long term... :)
[QUOTE] Originally posted by ak47: *
**At a conference to promote peace between arabs and israelis* in morrocco in winter of 2003 the israeli delegcation was beaten up by the morrocon delegation and algerian delegation with the kuwaitis and palestianions join in in for fun also.
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So you enjoyed that huh? Thats precisely why their will be no peace in that region. Recognition or no regonition, one shouldnt treat delegates like this if they invited them on the first plaace, and then they talk about peace.
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*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Israel is always looking for states (especially Muslim ones) to recognize it, without whose recognition it will always feel vulnerable. But time and ground realities are not on Israel's side, and it has now entered it's twighlight years. Hence Pakistan or any or all other Muslim states recognzing it, will not make much difference in the long term... :)
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That is very true, the reality is israel needs the states surrounding it to sustain its lifespan.
The muslim ummah does not want the israeli state only the corrupt rulers and the ones who immitate the west are the ones calling for recognition of this cancer called israel.
nyways, no one outside Pakistan even cares whether recognized or not.
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In fact it is very important for Israel and it's sponsors that the Zionist entity is given wider diplomatic recognition, and if it was not they would not bring up this issue?
How and why is it important to Israel? What have they lost by not having Pakistan's recognition? - Nothing. If they brought up the issue, it is probably because 'why not' and also may be in future they can market some things in Pakistan. Atleast that's what I think.
Pakistan can recognize Israel if it sees any benefits in that. The only thing i,m so fed up of this whole "Ummah" rhetoric. When will you all realize that ur Umaah holds their lota at a higher place than ur face!
forget ummah,,, do watevers best for u,, become strong,,, and wen the ummah needs you,, they can come to us wagging their tails... for now,,, they can all go to hell.
I,m with musharaf on this. I have no problems with him accepting Israel. If anything, it,ll probably do us more good than harm. cos lets face it, we arent actually getting too many camels from the "Ummah" either. if anything,,, we always get the camels arse everytime.
jews are top most rivals of Muslims.
it will not be any easy step to do.
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Only because we are taught to hate them from childhood. Once we realize they are also humans like us, we can be friends.
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Only because we are taught to hate them from childhood. Once we realize they are also humans like us, we can be friends.
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-you are absolutely right, they are also human and like us, but deeds differ?
-If i am not wrong it is in Qur'an (correct me if wrong)that jews and christians are enemies of Muslims,
-we should and do trade with non-muslims, but very carefully and according to religion.