Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

Disagree here I think he isn’t interested in women issue he is interested in having a good image, reflects on him. That means he will ensure he projects that. That means we are not hearing every thing about mukhtar mai and I have a very low opinion about mush’s thus far so while I hope you are right I don’t think that you are. I find it incredibly unfair that being a victim she is jeopardized, house arrested all in the name of good country image. Screw the image; you want to make amends what better time then right now? Media has a job to do they’ll keep distorting pictures, that shouldn’t affect due processes.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

No, he had a travel-ban issued against her. That means she can't leave the country.

Nowhere does it say that the house-arrest was from his command. I have a feeling that someone lower on the ladder manipulated the situation here. She was also harassed from what I understood and some gov't official told her that Mush hates her or something along those lines which made her cry.

Like I said, one man can't do all in his lifetime. What you're going to naturally see is that he gives a command and someone smartass lower on the ladder manipulates things at the grass-roots level.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

So who is responsible for that smart-ass subordinate? Every time crap like this happens in Pakistan blame goes to the small guy and authority figure feigns innocence and is exempted. If you cant ensure fair treatment of such a highlighted rape victim then you need to step down and get belted. God only knows what other victims have to suffer.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

WOOOP TI ****INGG DO!

Who cares!!!!

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

then why bother to reply? go and whoop somewhere else

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

True - that smartass should be punished.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

I thought the comment by the Minister of State Wasim Shahzad attacking the NGOs involved in her planned trip to Amrika was a bit nasty: Dr Shahzad Waseem, who accused the NGOs (en masse) — vultures, crows and eagles, he called them — of exploiting the issue “for a dinner with John and Johnnie Walker”

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

Mushie my hero (I mean it) sounds more like a Beardless Castro. You know Castro wears a uniform and is a president at the saem time.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

I rest my case. Mushy is an idiot. It tells you a person's way of thinking. MukhtaraN mai's coming to America and making this whole story an international talk would only prove that Pakistani government or society does not condon such atrocities. It encourages victims to surface such barbarian practices and do something about it. The other spin is that now it shows that victims of such atrocities will have tougher time in raising their voices. Which goes completely against the whole spirit of Mukhtara Mai's courage and undeniable stature.

If you can't make a strong case on this basis to show good on your governement then you should not be holding any public policy making position or any diplomatic office in a country. But faujis are not trained that way. Their way of thinking is way too discliplined and single-tracked.

Mushy suffers from inferiority complex to US and no wonder his tail doesn't stop wagging. He is way too concerned about his image. ch*******.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

what does Ch******* mean?

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

It means 'Idiot'.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

Yeah Brother Roman, I feel the same way as you do. Faisal and his dictator loving Guppies were making fun of me the other day when I said that he was personally keeping the people of Pakistan oppressed, but they were praising him left and right and refused to believe that he would either Revoke Kristof’s visa or even know who MukhtaraN Mai is (tears come to my eyes, when I mention the name of that GREAT woman – in my heart, she holds a lot higher status than any other Pakistani, Muslims, Prophets, Khalifays, Angels, and even God, etc.).

Thanks you Channji Bhaijan for sharing this with us. It should open peoples’ eyes as to what kind of jerk Mushi is.

:jhanda:

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

L_D, Roman likes to sign his posts.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

Wrong. Wrong. And completely wrong.

You can criticize Musharaf as much as you want, and I may even join you; however where I disagreed with you is your claim that press in Pakistan is not allowed to criticize Musharraf. I don’t think thats quite true any more.

And re: MukhtaraN Mai issue which seems to have gripped your (and Chann ji’s) entire existance for the past one week (4+ threads), I just think putting her on ECL and grabbing her passport is a *ghatia *act. It is these kinds of power abuses that brings much more worse name to the country. At the same time, I disagree with those who are suggesting that allowing her to travel abroad can somehow be spun in a favorable way for Pakistan. I don’t think thats quite true, especially with the present bias displayed by most of the international media regarding Pakistan (Osama hiding at our borders, women rights, religious protests etc). What happened to her (gang rape and subsequent freeing her rapists) is a black spot (Kalank ka teeka) on our national image and we just have to face it and remedy the causes for future.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

precisely. If the foreign media can malign Iran and its "women's rights" issues and totally ignore all the positive improvement that has come about in that country recently, then how do you think they're going to use Mukhtaran Mai's case?

And yes, you're right. Mush does have military style thinking. But I think that Pakistan is so out of hand - well it was extremely out of hand when Mush took over - that Pakistan NEEDS someone who is strong and totally utilitarian and military in their thinking.

Pakistanis need to get organized, and everyone needs to be on the same page at least. Instead, when Nawaz ran off with his tail between his fat thighs, the country was nearing anarchy. At least, Pakistan is moving away from anarchy and getting organized.

I would research up some non-biased articles on the recent Muktharan Mai incidents, but you know what? Its not even worth it. Those who want to be anti-Mush will be anti-Mush.

I'd rather have Musharraf anyday over what alternatives you DO see in that country.

Lets go thru them, shall we...

Benazir Bhutto - More like a rotten Bhutta
Nawaz Sharif - he's bad news.
Altaf Hussain - yeah right. He's the biggest drama since Uroosa.
MMA - how about "no"?
Chaudry shujaat - that guy is SUCH A CHOR. First he needs some speech lesson - patha nahi kya kya bhol de tha hai - he's dangerous.

who else does that leave, pray tell?

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

Mukhtaran Mai should be allowed to go anywhere in the world once the case(in which she is plaintiff) has been decided. I read an article that she has been offered canadian citizenship. She must be free to travel to and live in that country...She must be free to travel to USA..But, the high profile case must be decided first. I hope the culprits would be punished as soon as possible, as the case is already in the apex court. After that Mai can stay here or go wherever she wants to go...

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

Faisal one reason for that is that it is not upto anyone to control the press or flow of information anymore except may be in few small countries with extremely small press segment. I believe this argument is moot in 2005 when press has reached a certain mass threshhold where it can’t be totally cowed down by anyone. Pakistan in particular is under the world press microscope and any serious attempt to curb the freedom of press will backfire just like this MukhtaraN case shows.

There is another way to deal with press and have the same effect as curbing it…that is to use it to one’s own advantage…basically as long as more of press sings your tunes, even if some don’t, net effect is same as curbing part of it…at least at the domestic level.

Above applies across the world not only to Musharraf.

Good thing is that even Dictators can’t control the flow of information in countries with large population mass concentrations with education and world connectivity. That is what is happening in Pakistan..it is fear of backfire and getting roasted on the world press grill not benovalence of Musharraf that press is relatively free in Pakistan.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

^ Chann ji. That was exactly my point, that press in Pakistan is able to publicly criticize Musharaf (inviting guests on TV shows to lamblast the Pres is the same thing). Its not necessarily due to Musharaf's benevolence, but may also be entirely due to other factors out of his control. And this was the point I disagreed with Madhanee, to which he famously replied "it defies common logic". Oh well, may be to him.

At no point did I admire Musharraf, and I especially disagree with the way the government conducted itself in the MukhtaraN Mai issue. Holding her against her will, putting her name on ECL, refusing to let her fly, are all despicable acts. I can see why Musharaf and his cronies are getting uncomfortable about MukhtaraN telling her story on the international press, but their job should be to rectify the situation by capturing her rapists, rather then capturing her to shut her up. This is classic military style BS and highhandedness that symbolizes dictatorships.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

Totally agree.^^

I have noticed that Pakistani Govt and many intellectuals also place lot of emphasis on image and projection of image....they seem to beleive that all there problems are because they don't have good image amongst outside world....that is ass backward....image is not good because these guys have totally failed their country by playing with dangerous fantasy ideas and plans in the last 50 years....not solution is not working on the image but working on the problems they have either created or ignored to correct....image will follow by itself.
but as the desi ego goes....well we need to improve our image....MukhatraN Mai case is all about how Pakistan Govt thought it will ruin their image....they were wrong..what ruins their image is not to deliver justice to her.

I am hearing lot of lack of evidence and bs as reasons for aquittal of the rapists...I am not sure what they are looking for....a dozen elders decided the punishment, another dozen delivered it in front of the whole village and made the woman walk naked.....how many witnesses one needs? and if no one is coming forward, who''s job is it to make sure witnesses to crime are not cowed down? but no..they are busy worrying about image.

Re: Musharraf and MukhtaraN Mai

From Pakistans and Gupshups favorite journalist:
See in bold below. very he bad.:nono1:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/21/opinion/21kristof.html?
When Pakistan’s prime minister visits next month, President Bush will presumably use the occasion to repeat his praise for President Pervez Musharraf as a bold leader “dedicated in the protection of his own people.” Then they will sit down and discuss Mr. Bush’s plan to sell Pakistan F-16 fighter jets capable of carrying nuclear weapons.
But here’s a suggestion: How about the White House dropping word that before the prime minister arrives, he first return the passport of Mukhtaran Bibi, the rape victim turned human-rights campaigner, so that she can visit the United States?
Despite Mr. Bush’s praise, General Musharraf shows more commitment to his F-16’s than to his people. Now he’s paying the price. Visiting New Zealand the last few days, he was battered by questions about why he persecuted a rape victim, forcing him to cancel interviews.
Pakistani newspapers savaged him for harming Pakistan’s image. And the blogosphere has taken up Ms. Mukhtaran’s case, with more than 100 blogs stirring netizens to send blizzards of e-mails to Pakistani consulates or to join protests planned for Wednesday and Thursday at Pakistani offices in New York and Washington.
Yet it’s crucial to remember that Ms. Mukhtaran is only a window into a much larger problem - the neglect by General Musharraf’s government of the plight of women and girls.
Early this year, for example, a doctor named Shazia Khalid reported that she had been gang-raped in a government-owned natural-gas plant. Instead of treating her medically, officials drugged her into unconsciousness for three days to keep her quiet and then shipped her to a psychiatric hospital.
When she persisted in trying to report the rape, she was held under house arrest in Karachi. The police suggested that since she had cash, she must have been working as a prostitute. Dr. Shazia’s husband has stood by her, but his grandfather was quoted as suggesting that Dr. Shazia had disgraced the family and should be killed.
On average, a woman is raped every two hours in Pakistan, and two women a day die in honor killings.
While Ms. Mukhtaran and Dr. Shazia have attracted international support, most victims in Pakistan are on their own. Earlier this year, for example, police reported that a village council had punished a man for having an affair by ordering his 2-year-old niece to be given in marriage to a 40-year-old man.
In another case this year, an 11-year-girl named Nazan was rescued from her husband’s family, which beat her, broke her arm and strung her from the ceiling because she didn’t work hard enough.
Then there are Pakistan’s hudood laws, which have been used to imprison thousands of women who report rapes. If rape victims cannot provide four male witnesses to the crime, they risk being whipped for adultery, since they acknowledge illicit sex and cannot prove rape.
When a group of middle-class Pakistani women demonstrated last month for equal rights in Lahore, police clubbed them and dragged them to police stations. They particularly targeted Asma Jahangir, a U.N. special rapporteur who is also the head of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan.
Ms. Jahangir says the directions to the police about her, coming from an intelligence official close to General Musharraf, were: “Teach the [expletive] a lesson. Strip her in public.” Sure enough, the police ripped her shirt off and tried to pull her trousers off. If that’s how General Musharraf’s government treats one of the country’s most distinguished lawyers, imagine what happens to a peasant challenging injustice.
I’ve heard from Pakistanis who, while horrified by honor killings and rapes, are embarrassed that it is the barbarism in Pakistan that gets headlines abroad. A word to those people: I understand your defensiveness, for we Americans feel the same about Guantánamo Bay and Abu Ghraib. But rooting out brutality is a better strategy than covering it up, and any nation should be proud to produce someone like Ms. Mukhtaran.
So while meeting the Pakistani prime minister, Mr. Bush could discuss not only F-16’s, but also repeal of the hudood laws. And Mr. Bush could invite Ms. Mukhtaran to the Oval Office as well, both to hail a genuine Pakistani hero and to spotlight the goals of ordinary Pakistanis - not fighter aircraft but simple justice.
Resources
For more information about some of these issues, including the planned demonstrations outside Pakistani offices this week, see www.4anaa.org/projects/mukhtaran-mai.htm. That’s on the Web site of the Asian-American Network Against Abuse of Women, run by a group of Pakistani doctors, and it’s also the group that is arranging her visit to the U.S. To help Mukhtaran, don’t send checks to me. Instead, you can find out about contributing at www.mercycorps.org .