I believe that this is the right thing going on using wrong ways. If we dont clear it out, issues like 'iran' and 'libya' will pop up again and again. Though the approach has left a lot to be desired.
I highly doubt that Dr. Khan will be prosecuted or anything like that. Dr. Farooq is the one most likely to be labelled as culprit.
Secondly, our lovely politicians have got a great oppurtunity to polish thier political shops and they are certainly trying thier best.
whatever the situation, whoever was involved, whenever it was done
few questions
1) how should it be contained to safeguard Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and assets. We are criticizing how the govt is handlign it, how do you suggest it be handled..keeping in mind the implications of the approach
2) how would you demonstrate and ensure that teh country is seriuos about its programs? Now even if there is a front..which we dont know that there is..
3) If any program was being handled with the knowledge of anyone in the govt..military or civilian, and was later found to be in violation of the law, would we not address it no matter how high up the person was?
4) does this leave any doubt in anyone's mind that ther eis no Ummah, the way Iran and Libya ratted this out, there should be a law to never engage in business with these guys let alone do anythign officially, and anyone dealing with them unofficially gets sent to the gallows.
Mr.Fraudia,
Here's how I'll handle it.
It appears to me that there was some cooperation with Iran in the late 1980s and early 90s. I'll first say that we did not break any laws and we were cooperating with a friendly nation at that time. If Iran broke laws, then its not our problem.
However, if that doesn't sell, then we'll say we'll sideline the people who cooperated as well as the people who ordered it.
If people are going to be punished, then ALL guilty officials must be punished and it must include Army officials.
There is not even a scinitilla of doubt in my mind that if these things happened, then Gen.Aslam Beg as COAS has a major role in it.
In late 1980s up until his retirement, Gen.Beg openly called for Pakistan to tie up with Iran militarily.
So, whichever way we look at it, any action that selectively punishes a few will seriously jeopardize our national interests in the long run.
Army is not a sacred cow. The real truth must come out.
Otherwise, we are heading down a path of doom.
Khilaari
thanks, its a sound approach. only challenge is that pulling aslam baig and thus ISI into the lime light again after having to decrease teh focus on them and their alleged links with taleban just a few years ago would cast a serious doubt on the inner workings of iSI and what it means for Pakistan's future.
I am all for containing the participants in it, you may have to make few a public scapegoat, and then 'deal" with others seperately..someone's parachute dioes not open, someone's car falls of a bridge.
btw do you remember when our commando group's general tariq persihed because his parachute did not open, that was probably the same approach by someone.. kinda like gen zia's plane. convenient "accidents"
Really. I never heard that Tariq's parachute did not open because of a clandestine cover-up. I always thought of it as a bonafide accident.
Anyway... so I guess we are all agreed that those who divulged nuclear secrets for their personal gains should be punished. We are not so clear whether they should be punished if they, as a group, decided (back in 80s or whenever) that arming our "friends" with nukes is in Pakistan's best interests. For example, if more Islamic countries have nuclear weapons then the spot light will move away from the sole-Pakistan and consequently our nuclear assets will be safer. Its a plausible theory, but its not clear if it was really a bright strategy and whether it actually worked or backfired.
Then there is the ultimate question of why we are making such a public spectacle of it. Why not carry out these investigations in private and decide what needs to be done.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
whatever the situation, whoever was involved, whenever it was done
few questions
1) how should it be contained to safeguard Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and assets. We are criticizing how the govt is handlign it, how do you suggest it be handled..keeping in mind the implications of the approach
2) how would you demonstrate and ensure that teh country is seriuos about its programs? Now even if there is a front..which we dont know that there is..
3) If any program was being handled with the knowledge of anyone in the govt..military or civilian, and was later found to be in violation of the law, would we not address it no matter how high up the person was?
4) does this leave any doubt in anyone's mind that ther eis no Ummah, the way Iran and Libya ratted this out, there should be a law to never engage in business with these guys let alone do anythign officially, and anyone dealing with them unofficially gets sent to the gallows.
[/QUOTE]
I would only comment on your 4th question.
Iran and Libya probably did what was in "their national interest", you remember what Pakistan did to the Taliban, don't you? Why are you then bringing up the "Ummah" now? When Pakistan cared less for the "Ummah", why should Iran or Libya or any other country part of the "Ummah" care for munafiqs?
^ uh maybe because we were helping those loosers????
it’s true.. I really feel like giving a good firm kick in the behind to Iran at least.. such losers.. don’t ask for help if you can’t keep your trap shut..
ingrates.. 
I wish we had leadership which could stand up and say .. hey what’s done is done.. we’ll make sure nothing like that happens again.. and then be firm with it..
How many Israeli spies caught by America and handed over to Israel have met any punishments?? they make heroes out of them instead.. why should we make scapegoats out of our heroes.. we already know they started the whole thing based on theft. when AQ Khan stole those secrets.. why be all 'moral all of a sudden?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by camouflage: *
Iran and Libya probably did what was in "their national interest", you remember what Pakistan did to the Taliban, don't you? Why are you then bringing up the "Ummah" now? When Pakistan cared less for the "Ummah", why should Iran or Libya or any other country part of the "Ummah" care for munafiqs?
[/QUOTE]
why am i bringing it up? just to demonstrate that Pakistan is not th eonly country that acts in its self interest. I guess point proved.
btw there weas a difference in what pakistan did to taleban vs what libya and iran did to pakistan
Pakistan did nto put its own neck on the line to save taliban from themselves and US
Libya and Iran put pakistan's neck on the line to save their own
There is a difference.
either way, no country gives a damn about Ummah, why should we and endanger our national security?
Originally posted by Faisal: *
**Really. I never heard that Tariq's parachute did not open because of a clandestine cover-up. I always thought of it as a bonafide accident.*
bonafide accident? they check the chutes of a rangroot like 5 times before he jumps..i suppose Tariq saheb's parachute would have gone thru a more stringent examination. ..
*Then there is the ultimate question of why we are making such a public spectacle of it. Why not carry out these investigations in private and decide what needs to be done. *
it is being made into a public spectacle, and for Pakistan to be hush hush about it will only raise suspicions, might as well do this stuff out in the open and get it done and over with.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khilaari: *
Lo kar lo Gul.
[/QUOTE]
ditto
This is getting weird by the minute.
Its easy to find out who is the culprit... Check their bank accounts and if they have big fat balance then ask them where did they get the moolah..
WMD proliferation: the European-US trail
Ofcourse AQ khan is the first one to go ......upnext is Aslam BAig.....
what a pity ....even if AQ khan has sold the technology .......it was his personel skill that was sold........he was the first person to be graded as Nuclear scientist here in pakistan and who made progress in the field.......other wise we had atomic energy commision from 60s with muneer khan not being able to develop hard water in 10 years...and AQ khan developed a team of scientist and made pak nuclear state in 8 years......
Make a cost benefit analysis........more benefits from the person .......and we r goonna give him death sentence......
righlty said before.....Lo kar lo gul
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
why am i bringing it up? just to demonstrate that Pakistan is not th eonly country that acts in its self interest. I guess point proved.
btw there weas a difference in what pakistan did to taleban vs what libya and iran did to pakistan
Pakistan did nto put its own neck on the line to save taliban from themselves and US
Libya and Iran put pakistan's neck on the line to save their own
There is a difference.
either way, no country gives a damn about Ummah, why should we and endanger our national security?
[/QUOTE]
Whatever Libya and Iran did, they did it after Pakistan proved that it cared less for the "ummah". So, basically your point has been proved --> WRONG.
Your 4th question was invalid, since Pakistan is in no position to ask that question, you acted as a munafiq in the past and now you get treated like a munafiq, you shouldn't protest on being treated on how you deserve to be treated. This is Divine Justice.
Pakistan did put Taliban's neck on the line to save their own.
since when can secular nations be part of the "ummah"?
Abdali yaar,
If Bank account checking is done, Aslam Beg and Dr.A.Q.Khan will be neck to neck :D
Does someone have that list of Pakistani top money dudes that was published few years ago?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by camouflage: *
Whatever Libya and Iran did, they did it after Pakistan proved that it cared less for the "ummah". So, basically your point has been proved --> WRONG.
Your 4th question was invalid, since Pakistan is in no position to ask that question, you acted as a munafiq in the past and now you get treated like a munafiq, you shouldn't protest on being treated on how you deserve to be treated. This is Divine Justice.
Pakistan did put Taliban's neck on the line to save their own.
since when can secular nations be part of the "ummah"?
[/QUOTE]
What criteria are you using to judge a country secular or munafiq? Libya has cracked down far harder on Islamists than Pakistan has until recent history anyway. You cite Taliban in one breath and Iran in the other conveniently ignoring the fact that both were at each other's throats due to the sectarian divide so all the points you have made look pretty flimsy.
First name me a country you consider NOT to be munafiq, let us look at it in greater detail and THEN you can start pointing fingers at Pakistan. None of the countries you have mentioned so far bear up to scrutiny. You can start a seperate thread if you like.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
what a pity ....even if AQ khan has sold the technology .......it was his personel skill that was sold........he was the first person to be graded as Nuclear scientist here in pakistan and who made progress in the field.......other wise we had atomic energy commision from 60s with muneer khan not being able to develop hard water in 10 years...and AQ khan developed a team of scientist and made pak nuclear state in 8 years......
[/QUOTE]
He is our saviuor no doubt but even if a tiny bit of those reports is true, it would be pretty damning evidence. And it was NOT His personal property, once you put a government label on it, it becomes a national secret. And they are not for sale.
‘Musharraf wept over nuke scientist’s betrayal’
do you really think musharuff crying for letting nuke secrets out?
For the first time ever I saw tears in the President’s eyes, who thought that it was the worst ever breach of the nation’s trust," recalled a presidential aide