Re: Moroccan female ‘priests’
And yet you leave Das Reich’s regrettable anti-female comments? 
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
You can respond to the "regrettable anti-female comments".
Anything related to the topic under discussion is fine.
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
:( I forgot what I said about the anti-female comments.
Well to summarize: Das Reich, you are out of your mind.
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
commenting ag/ feminist Islamic scholars = anti-female.
:-/
Re: Moroccan female ‘priests’
^
NO. 
I disagree with the equation; if Mernissi is twisting history as such, then she needs to be called on it…
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
How do you know mernissi is twisting history? Provide examples if you feel as such.
Like I said, I haven't read the book, and I've only read positive comments on it. No negative reviews as of yet. So if you're going to give her a bad review then have some real arguments to proove she's wrong. Like she said X, but authentic primary religious sources say the opposite.
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
^ the positive comments u have read come usually from people who dont even know the basics of islamic history but will readily agree with anyone who writes against traditional islamic sources...
my criticism of ummelmomineen ayesha was not motivated by sectarian reasons ...if that was the case why would i defend Umar [ra] from the charge of misogyny??
but "primary authentic religious sources" in this case the Quran itself are very clear about the role of Prophet[pbuh]'s wives ...whether you like it or not ...it was not upto them to settle political disputes or avenge murders esp. of those to whom they are not related [Quran 33:33]
similarly her charge against umar [ra] of being a anti-female is ridiculuous ...umar[ra] had the most popular leader of muslim armies removed from post as he thought his conduct was contrary to islam .....he had numerous men flogged and dismissed from posts when he saw that they were not following islamic rules as he liked....so similarly his dealing with women was also harsh in these terms ....that does not mean he was anti-female
as far as the fourth caliph is concerned and his wars against the rebellions is concerned overwhelming majority of scholars from all sects have recognized it as the right thing to do.
And in intra-muslim warfare muslims are not allowed to sit idle but to actively participate either in trying to patch up differences or fighting against the transgressors[Quran 49:9]
I hope Faisal will not delete my post ..it is not to stir up sectarian hatred but to expose a author who is preying on the minds of young girls to confuse them and alienate them from the great personalities of Islam
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
nice post
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
Allah’s command to stay in the house was a general condition set upon not only the Prophet’s wives, but all women in general. This does not mean that women can never leave the house; it is rather a general rule of thumb so that they remain chaste and in Purdah. However, it is permissible to leave the house for ordered duties, such as Hajj, Umrah, or travelling with one’s husband. Verses 33:32-34 were revealed to the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم), and he himself travelled with his wives after this. For example, he travelled with Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) to Hijjat Al-Wida’a, and this occurred three months after the verse was revealed. Surely we are not so crass as to accuse the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) of violating the meaning of this verse!
Even after the Prophet’s death, the Prophet’s widows performed Hajj; it is narrated that Umar (رضّى الله عنه) gave Uthman (رضّى الله عنه) or Abdul-Rahman bin Owf (رضّى الله عنه) the leadership of the caravan carrying the Prophet’s widows.
“Accordingly, if it is allowed for the Prophet’s wives to travel for a benefit, then Aisha thought that by her departure a reformation of the Muslims could happen [and Muslim lives would be saved]. She interpreted it in that matter.” (Minhaj Al-Sunnah, vol.4, p.317-318)
An appropriate analogy is that Allah prohibits us from breaking our Salat midway. However, if we are in Salat and the enemies of Islam attack our camp, then it is permissible to break one’s Salat in order to defend the Muslim camp and save Muslim lives. Likewise, the Prophet’s wives and women in general were instructed to stay at home; however, in this case, Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) thought that she could prevent bloodshed and open rebellion by using her status and prestige to act as an arbiter. In fact, if Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) thought that leaving her house was the only way to save Muslim lives, then it would not only be Halal for her to leave her house but no doubt it would be Wajib (obligatory).
It is narrated in both Sahih Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) told Saudah (رضّى الله عنها), one of his wives, that “Allah has permitted you to go out of the house for genuine needs.”
Maududi says: “This shows that the divine injunction ‘remain in your houses’ does not mean that women should not at all step out of the four walls of the house.” (Purdah, p. 201-202)
If the Shia knew of an incident in which Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) did not leave her house and this resulted in some harm to the Ahle Bayt Ali, then suddenly the Shia would reverse their position and use this story against Aisha (رضّى الله عنها). For example, if Aisha (رضّى الله عنها) could have hypothetically prevented the assassination of Ali (رضّى الله عنه) by leaving her house and warning him of it, would the Shia still hold to their statement that the Prophet’s wives could not leave their homes? Based on this hypothetical scenario, we see that the Shia accusations are completely biased.
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
^
The surahs are indeed for the Prophet's wives; and Ayesha's (ra) guilt is admission enough of her error....in other words, she by her own self-admission was in the wrong so respect her judgement and leave it at that.
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
^ the positive comments u have read come usually from people who dont even know the basics of islamic history but will readily agree with anyone who writes against traditional islamic sources... my criticism of ummelmomineen ayesha was not motivated by sectarian reasons ...if that was the case why would i defend Umar [ra] from the charge of misogyny?? but "primary authentic religious sources" in this case the Quran itself are very clear about the role of Prophet[pbuh]'s wives ...whether you like it or not ...it was not upto them to settle political disputes or avenge murders esp. of those to whom they are not related [Quran 33:33]
similarly her charge against umar [ra] of being a anti-female is ridiculuous ...umar[ra] had the most popular leader of muslim armies removed from post as he thought his conduct was contrary to islam .....he had numerous men flogged and dismissed from posts when he saw that they were not following islamic rules as he liked....so similarly his dealing with women was also harsh in these terms ....that does not mean he was anti-female
as far as the fourth caliph is concerned and his wars against the rebellions is concerned overwhelming majority of scholars from all sects have recognized it as the right thing to do. And in intra-muslim warfare muslims are not allowed to sit idle but to actively participate either in trying to patch up differences or fighting against the transgressors[Quran 49:9]
I hope Faisal will not delete my post ..it is not to stir up sectarian hatred but to expose a author who is preying on the minds of young girls to confuse them and alienate them from the great personalities of Islam
I'm still not seeing any specific quotations from Mernissi's text that you're trying to rebuttle.
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
i dont carry the book with me all the time didnt think it was worth the $30 so i borrowed it from a friend ....nor is it online as far as i know
my argument is directed more against the general theme of the text ...you will know once u read it
Re: Moroccan female 'priests'
thanks people, nice perspectives.
i feel that Fatima mernissi, nilofer gole, and other contemporary female scholars are not meaning to undo provoke anyone.
in stead, their message is on that is intended to offer people a view by considering which they can see how narrow minded and false are some grave expectations from women.
a good, pious, decent muslim woman, knows alot more about conservatism than her average counter part in non muslim societies, but we ought not to judge women simply for not covering their heads or speaking their minds.
yes, if they are calling religion invalid,and on wrong basis, then we can identify for them as to where they are wrong.
Islam is everyone's Islam and not confined to a select few.
people know that religion is a way of being, and must be adopted single- mindedly.
no one is able to nor can claim that their religiosity is superior than others. who knows what is accepted and noted by Allah in each one of us.
we must become open-minded to allow each other enough space to have oour affinity with our faith, as individuals.
hope is that people - women and men, won't little by little shrink religion to their personal whims, which is whathas happened in the hypocritic socities across a huge spectrum of muslims.
blamng female scholars is an alibi.
what have men done to recongnize their own flaws and double standards in even adopting religion, why they do what they do?
simple answer - they need personal power.
there are complex issues in within the issues.
i hope that is not a wrong comparison of muslim female scholars that becomes the focus of any talk around the role of everyone - men and women, in the societal transactions that involve each and every aspect of our lives- be it religious or personal.
each one of us is also an independent entity, so we must be awake and not oblivious to everyone's independent stake in upholding the honesty, and humility with which we should learn about and teach about our religion, to our selves and to other people around us.
one way is to relate to various muslims from different regions of the world and learnt from them, about our faith, without looking through the lens of gender differentiation for the sake of gender differentiation