Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
This sucks on so many levels. Whatever happened to 'moderation' and 'tolerance' that he used to preach about?
Teggy bhaijan, I am not if you have heard the latest news - emergency rule has been declared in Pakistan.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
Teggy bhaijan, I am not if you have heard the latest news - emergency rule has been declared in Pakistan.
its not emergency rule it is "kursi" bachao rule and "I am the greatest" rule.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
CJ could have thwarted that. By allowing judges to even put in a vote like allowing extremists off the hook, he's in the wrong. Bad leadership.
CJ cannot do that. He does not have any judicial powers more than that of other judges of the Supreme Court.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
its governments incompetency that those 61+ ppl got free. government failed to provide enough evidence for their conviction. ......
You guys don't get it! Do you?
UK, US, France, and every country on this whole wide world can pick up the likes of Mosawi, jose padilla and keep them "indefinitely".
These judges were not living on moon or mars that they didn't know these moronic Mullahs of lal masjid.
How many times you need evidence about lal masjid being terror den? Or Mullah burqa to leave reams of evidence for his anti-state activities?
These murderers of our soldiers should be locked up for ever. How the hell a 2-bit judge take petitions and release them?
No one has picked up someone wilinili and tried him or her in the military court. There are handful of enemies of state who are misleading people in the name of "freedom of speech" and committing treasonous acts. And unfortuntely some of these Ben Laden lackeys live and breed in the West. And the West now has to try these knuckleheads in the military courts.
These terrorists are no citizens of any state, they are in fact enemies of the humanity.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
These murderers of our soldiers should be locked up for ever. How the hell a 2-bit judge take petitions and release them?
.
Anti I would like you to tell me something which is very confusing. Our beloved dictator imposed emergency because these idiot judges were hindering the running of the country and also as you are so keen to point out that they released terrorists. why O why did he allow two judges who were part of the decision to release these "terrorists" were allowed to take oath on PCO. Want to know the truth, because the emergency was imposed for one reason only: To save his kursi, Pakistan jaye bhaar mein, that is the motto of this dictator.
However I do await your comments that how come this 2 bit judges were allowed to take oath on PCO when they were part of the decision.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
Anti I would like you to tell me something which is very confusing. Our beloved dictator imposed emergency because these idiot judges were hindering the running of the country and also as you are so keen to point out that they released terrorists. why O why did he allow two judges who were part of the decision to release these "terrorists" were allowed to take oath on PCO. Want to know the truth, because the emergency was imposed for one reason only: To save his kursi, Pakistan jaye bhaar mein, that is the motto of this dictator.
However I do await your comments that how come this 2 bit judges were allowed to take oath on PCO when they were part of the decision.
If Musharraf were to not give them a chance to keep their positions and side with him, you'd say he was a tyrant not giving anyone a chance to keep their seat.
If he gives them a chance to keep their position, he is still a tyrant.
I'm so glad he's a man of his own will and doesn't listen to his people much - his people don't understand the meaning of Extremism takeover and hijacking of state affairs, and how to deal with those sorts of things.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
And PCG vanishes
If you were in front of me, and I had a jhooti, I would smack the hell out of you. such that it would make the Taliban look like a joke. I last posted on the forum at about 3 am in the morning around my time, and then I closed up the computer and went to bed. I just woke up and am back online. In the time you put up your initial post and did not get a swift 2 min-reaction reply, I was actually asleep, you dumbo, so nobody is vanishing anywhere. Its called sleeping, as actually, my world doesn't necessarily revolve around this place like yours does. I can see how it would be difficult for you to be thoughtful.
The court's decision has been all over the papers, and acknowledged by even anti-Musharraf's on this forum.
I'm not even bothering to answer such a basic question.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
If Musharraf were to not give them a chance to keep their positions and side with him, you'd say he was a tyrant not giving anyone a chance to keep their seat.
If he gives them a chance to keep their position, he is still a tyrant.
I'm so glad he's a man of his own will and doesn't listen to his people much - his people don't understand the meaning of Extremism takeover and hijacking of state affairs, and how to deal with those sorts of things.
If you impose a draconian measure like emergency to fight terrorism than you need to clean the whole house not take half baked measures. He certainly is a man of his own will that is why he is hell bent on destroying Pakistan to save his own kursi.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
They don't have the resources to manage that. At the moment, lives are in stake in NWFP. See Mamaof3's personal responses in "Watching SWAT". When you have a government that has minimal resources, then priorities come first. I think the safety and protection of natural rights of millions in NWFP , and the threat to security to a nuclear power comes first before the internal politics of the government. I don't think that's a hard concept to follow. If I were leader of state, I would be putting the fussings of individual politicians and well-fed Pakistanis on the backburner while militarily dealing harshly with treason and protecting national interest. And if that meant curbing a media and politicians and activists that could possibly thwart that actiivty, then so be it.
The problem comes in when you have the corrupt police do that work for you, but then they can't spare their army either to handle the civilian unrest in urban areas either, if they're using their army in SWAT, and Wazirstan troubled areas. The problem is when CNN, (Oh wait, aren't you guys always complaining about how America portrays you and how Mush always listens to America - then why the heck are you paying attention to the Western media that's painting this emergency rule to be a selfish move? No conspiracy there for ya???) puts up pictures of men and women being mishandled on the streets as they're peacefully protesting rule, and the problem comes in when the President doesn't use the media to keep a full update and images of what's going on in SWAT. Had he done that, I think images and interviews of escaping SWAT residents would send enough chills down everyone's spine to garner morale support. That's where his mistake is. I don't think his heart is in the wrong place. He is a military man, and as such he leads the country like one leads the military.
For a group of Jaahil population like Pakistanis, I am hesitant to say that this is a wrong approach.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
Swat happened on his watch and due to his incompetence. He is responsible for it. In any other country and any other head of state who even had an ounce of conscience he would have resigned. Don't try and put the blame on others, he is responsible for it and instead of dealing with the matter he is playing games and more interested in saving his kursi than saving Pakistan. if he has limited resources than shouldn't he be looking for compromises instead of creating anarchy in the country. Who are you to call Pakistanis jahil just because you are sitting in the west and think you might have a degree. Talk like that tells the world who the real jahils are.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
Swat happened on his watch and due to his incompetence. .....
Swat's infestation with Jihadi disease is a long story. Just do google on Sufi Mohammad and TNSM.
Blame it where blame is due! Talibanic Jihadis, the lackeys of Ben Laden.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
Swat happened on his watch and due to his incompetence. He is responsible for it. In any other country and any other head of state who even had an ounce of conscience he would have resigned. Don't try and put the blame on others, he is responsible for it and instead of dealing with the matter he is playing games and more interested in saving his kursi than saving Pakistan. if he has limited resources than shouldn't he be looking for compromises instead of creating anarchy in the country. Who are you to call Pakistanis jahil just because you are sitting in the west and think you might have a degree. Talk like that tells the world who the real jahils are.
Wrong. Again, if he had taken more severe action earlier, it would have created an outcry of protest from Pakistanis everywhere. The sympathy you people give to these guys is well known, and Lal Masjid was an excellent example of people showcasing their extremist sympathies.
Have you not seen people like Hareem denouncing the President for not being more soft with these guys. And then you come along and say he should have done more about it? He had troops on the border monitoring what was coming back and forth, he had spies in these areas which are now beheaded mostly, and he had lots of social workers and religious parties in dialogue with these people. That was excatly how he should have handled it. Peaceful approach first. That has failed. Now, he's using military force, as he should.
You people need to make up your mind. He is getting criticized by some for being too soft, and others for being too harsh.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
Swat's infestation with Jihadi disease is a long story. Just do google on Sufi Mohammad and TNSM.
Blame it where blame is due! Talibanic Jihadis, the lackeys of Ben Laden.
Offtopic but needed:
One Questions, you dont like "anarchist" (thats how you define us) like me, PCG, Captain1. You don't prefer JIhad's either. What is your political stance then. Enlighten me please. It' seem to me that you turn tables every day.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
Wrong. Again, if he had taken more severe action earlier, it would have created an outcry of protest from Pakistanis everywhere. The sympathy you people give to these guys is well known, and Lal Masjid was an excellent example of people showcasing their extremist sympathies.
Have you not seen people like Hareem denouncing the President for not being more soft with these guys. And then you come along and say he should have done more about it? He had troops on the border monitoring what was coming back and forth, he had spies in these areas which are now beheaded mostly, and he had lots of social workers and religious parties in dialogue with these people. That was excatly how he should have handled it. Peaceful approach first. That has failed. Now, he's using military force, as he should.
You people need to make up your mind. He is getting criticized by some for being too soft, and others for being too harsh.
Incorrect assumptions yet again. You think anyone criticising Musharraf is sympathiser of terrorists. What a tunnel vision you have. Pity. I am more anti terrorists than you can ever imagine and I have personally been affected by their stupidity, so keep these lectures for someone else. he made blunder after blunder in dealing with these guys and also he let the Lal masjid saga drag on far too long. The reason was that he was using this issue to divert the attention away from the CJ affair. How utterly pathetic. Swat is the shinning example of his utter incompetence. he is in charge of the country, he is in charge of the armed forces he is in charge of everything in Pakistan and now with the emergency declared he has a free hand. So far he has used his power to subdue innocent civilians instead of these rabid terrorists. He spends his time and energy in jamming and blocking GEO TV but the mullah radio in Swat is operating freely. Why?
Bottom line Pakistan is in this sorry state of affairs due to his incompetence and it happened on his watch. History will record that.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
civilians who are supposed to be “masters” of army will be now tried in “servants” courts… only under Musharraf :k:
mai to kehta hoon saaray brigadiers ko Supreme Judges bana daloo… aur Mushy ko President, COAS aur CJ :k:
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
I think you are forgetting the period of CMLA ***o.
Army doesn’t come from moon or mars. They are part and parcel of civilians.
In a good environment, both civilians and army “serve” each other. However in the period of anarchy, army is the protector of civilians.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
Army doesn't come from moon or mars. They are part and parcel of civilians.
They don't come from Mars but their purpose of existence is to "serve" and "protect" (from outsiders) the public/civilian, not to rule/kick-around the civilians.
[quote]
In a good environment, both civilians and army "serve" each other. However in the period of anarchy, army is the protector of civilians.
[/quote]
Nope, you got it wrong, civilians are not supposed to "serve" army.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
If you were in front of me, and I had a jhooti, I would smack the hell out of you. such that it would make the Taliban look like a joke. I last posted on the forum at about 3 am in the morning around my time, and then I closed up the computer and went to bed. I just woke up and am back online. In the time you put up your initial post and did not get a swift 2 min-reaction reply, I was actually asleep, you dumbo, so nobody is vanishing anywhere. Its called sleeping, as actually, my world doesn't necessarily revolve around this place like yours does. I can see how it would be difficult for you to be thoughtful.
The court's decision has been all over the papers, and acknowledged by even anti-Musharraf's on this forum.
I'm not even bothering to answer such a basic question.
Instead of useless rants and rhetoric so charecteristic of you.
COME UP WITH PROOF HOW DID CHIEF JUSTICE RELEASE THE TERRORRISTS.
I beleive that you are not dumb but you make a joke of yourself by regurgitating your fantasies.
And FYI CJ never heard the Lal Mosque case, the two judges who did happen to be the "pals" of President and are NOW sitting in supreme court.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
And while you were busy posting your rhetorics elsewhere on GS, we have been discussing the problem of Taleban for quite some time. I had started a thread on it last month.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=266282
And told that f-16 or b-52’s, nothing will sort it out unless the Pak-Afghan border is controlled to check the movement of talibs.
Re: More Progress : Civilians can be court-martialled : Army Act amended
cheetay - once u start feeling better of ur talibanic phobia, do read this news which you probably has avoided reading. Then figure out who is actually releasing the terrorists … mind you some of these released by your tough talking spinless commando were actually convicted by due process of law. This coward dictator one day rounds up the whole system alleging that judiciary was hindering governments efforts to fight terrorism and the very next day this coward releases these 25 terrorits to secure release of those useless morons who had surrendered w/o firing a single shot. This is a professional army which would love to conquer its own people & land but when faced with some toughies, would wet its collective pants.
Govt frees 25 militants in exchange for 213 hostages
By Alamgir Bhittani
TANK, Nov 4: The government on Sunday freed 25 militants in exchange for the release of 213 army personnel who were held hostage in South Waziristan for more than two months
Military spokesperson Maj-Gen Waheed Arshad confirmed that 211 soldiers had been released and said that 25 militants who had been arrested under the Frontier Crimes Regulation (FCR) were also freed. Some of the freed militants had been convicted by an anti-terrorism court.
“I can’t say anything about the physical condition of soldiers at this moment, but there will be a debriefing session and medical check-up of all the released soldiers,” he told Dawn by phone from Islamabad.
He said that 211 soldiers were released on Sunday while two had been freed on Saturday.
Sources said that militants had brought 213 soldiers to Tiarza Khula, a remote area in South Waziristan, and handed them over to tribal elders. The military authorities brought the 25 militants in two helicopters to the brigade headquarters in Zari Noor colony near Wana. They were later taken to Tiarza Khula for the swap.
The sources said that seven militants had been released from the central jail in Dera Ismail Khan and 18 had been brought from Islamabad.
Zulfiqar Mehsud, spokesman for Baitullah Mehsud, and his deputy Fakher Alam Mehsud handed over the soldiers to a jirga headed by former MNA Maulvi Mirajuddin.
Militants had on Aug 30 kidnapped 247 army personnel, including eight officers, in the Momi Karam area of South Waziristan. Later, 31 soldiers were released and three were shot dead. The sources said that militants had returned weapons, vehicles and communication equipment captured from the military personnel.
Mr Mirajuddin, who brokered the deal, said that issue had been resolved amicably and the two sides agreed to implement the Sararogha peace accord in letter and spirit.
Sources in Peshawar told Dawn that the NWFP government had also withdrawn seven terrorism cases pending before the anti-terrorism court in Dera Ismail Khan against some of the arrested militants.