Missionaries in India

I will reserve my comments until Indian guppies step into the discussion thread.

Missionaries tread warily in India

The conviction Monday of an evangelist’s killers does not ease fears among Christians and minorities.

By Scott Baldauf | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

NEW DELHI – Like many Christian evangelists in India, the Rev. Richard Howell welcomed Monday’s conviction of 13 radical Hindus involved in the murder of an Australian missionary family.
In 1999, Graham Staines and his two young sons were burned alive in their station wagon in the countryside of Orissa by a mob angry over Mr. Staines’s aggressive evangelism in this Hindu- majority state.

But despite justice in one case, Mr. Howell says he and his followers cannot rest easy. Since Staines’s murder, the number of attacks on Christians and other minorities has actually increased, he says, and the number of laws restricting religious practice has gathered pace across the country. These laws are being pushed by India’s pro-Hindu Bharatiya Janata Party that holds power in many states and controls the central government.

“There are attacks practically every week, maybe not resulting in death, but still, violent attacks,” Howell says. “They [the BJP] have created an atmosphere where minorities do feel insecure.”

Far more than a mere murder trial, the Graham Staines case rapidly became a cause célèbre for human rights groups, secular Indians, and missionaries. At stake, these groups said, was nothing less than modern India’s founding principle of secularism that favors no one religion but protects all.

Conservative Hindu analysts retort that the murders, while horrible, were a predictable reaction to secularism run rampant, fortifying the rights of India’s minorities to the detriment of the Hindu majority and its culture.

It’s this very debate - between secularism and Hindu nationalism - that remains the driving force of Indian politics today and seems destined to keep India’s many religious groups at odds for years to come.

“We are seeing a broad attempt to stifle religious minorities and their constitutional rights,” says Prakash Louis, director of the secular Indian Social Institute in New Delhi, which provides health and education services to India’s lower-caste and tribal communities. Mr. Louis decries the passage of anticonversion laws in the states of Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, and Tamil Nadu, and other laws that restrict cultural or religious practices, such as the slaughter of cows or the eating of beef.

“There is a fascist tendency toward authoritarianism in this country, and it is not just the BJP or the Sangh Parivar [a coalition of Hindu groups],” says Louis, noting that Congress Party politicians also have spoken in favor of such laws. “Today, they say you have no right to convert. Tomorrow, you have no right to worship in certain places, like the Babri Masjid.”

Backdrop of violence

The Babri Masjid, built 500 years ago, was torn down by a mob of Hindu activists in 1992, an act that set off riots nationwide that killed thousands. A special court in Lucknow is expected to announce Friday whether it will file charges against several top BJP politicians, including current Deputy Prime Minister L.K. Advani, for instigating the Babri Masjid destruction.

Citing the Babri Masjid case and the Gujarat riots of 2002, which followed the torching of a train-car full of Hindus by a mob of Muslims, Hindus argue that the violent riots of the past decade are the result of pent-up anger by the Hindu community after hundreds of years of provocations by a series of invaders, first the Muslim Moguls and later the British Christians.

In his influential book, “Harvesting Our Souls,” Arun Shourie writes that India’s minorities take actions that provoke India’s Hindu majority.

“The conversion of even an individual causes grave disruption,” writes Mr. Shourie, who now serves as India’s minister for disinvestment of state-owned industries. “His family is torn apart. Tensions erupt in the community… The individual is led to not just repudiate but denounce gods and rituals in which he has grown up.”

Targeting the poor

Shourie also notes that while Christians make up a small percentage of the population, perhaps 2.1 percent in the most recent census, they are focusing on India’s poorest, least-educated population, especially the Dalit community, who once were called “untouchables.” By some estimates, Dalits and other lower-caste Hindus make up more than 40 percent of the population here in India.

With financial backing from churches in the world’s richest nations, Shourie and other Hindu intellectuals argue, Western churches can shift the balance of religion in India forever.

A 1999 visit by Pope John Paul II made many Hindus suspicious, especially his statement to attending bishops, “The heart of the Church in Asia will be restless until the whole of Asia finds its rest in the peace of Christ, the risen Lord.”

(A spokesman for Shourie said the minister is on an official trip to Germany, and could not be reached for an interview.)

Christian missionaries counter that their work among Dalits provides social and spiritual uplift to a community that was mistreated by upper-caste Hindus for centuries.

But what is certain nearly five years after the murder of Staines is that Christian missionaries are becoming more careful about how they do their work. Instead of talking of conversion, for instance, they speak of “spreading the word of God.”

Ashish Lal, pastor of a small evangelical community in New Delhi, says, “The government is slowly tightening a noose across the country, especially against Christians.”

But every Sunday, he goes out into the streets in Christian neighborhoods and preaches from the Bible.

“Christianity is conversion,” says Mr. Lal, a self-described End-Time Believer, or one who believes that the Apocalypse is imminent. “It brings peace to a Christian to let people know of Christ.”

New unrest

But back in the state of Orissa, police officials are once again worried that one man’s conversion could be the beginning of communal violence.

This week in the Mayurbhanj district, police were deployed in a protective cordon around a new Baptist church being built by a man who converted to Christianity three years ago.

According to press reports, Baidhara Bindhani and his fellow convert Sudarshan Das began construction of a church on Mr. Bindhani’s own land a few weeks ago.

The construction project set off a riot by Hindu neighbors, 500 of whom reportedly marched to the site, stole the building materials, and then forced Bindhani and Mr. Das to drink water mixed with cow dung for the “purification” of their souls.

Its partly true that missionaries may have a hidden agenda of converting the tribals or hindus but the fact remains who are the people that are converting? its the low caste or the tribals who are at the bottom of indian society that are converting though some may argue that they are being bribed but even if we presume that they are deing offered goodies for converting arnt they getting a decent life.

Kabir, you are absolutely right. I would like to add that even if they receive some bribe, nothing is wrong. At least for sometime they can enjoy.
But can you tell me if conversion really change their life style. Because usually these mercenarries turrn arround once the job is over.

How much conversion to Islam has helped the dalits and the low casts of Indian society. Majority of them are still living in stinknig slum areas.

Not conversion, but awareness is required.

thinking somebody is worth less than us on the basis of cast or religion is insanity. Every body has a same right to enjoy life, something i have always wanted to know is why have cast system? Nothing positive ever comes out of it.

Since Staines's murder, the number of attacks on Christians and other minorities has actually increased, he says, and the number of laws restricting religious practice has gathered pace across the country. These laws are being pushed by India's pro-Hindu Bharatiya Janata Party that holds power in many states and controls the central government.

Maybe this is due to the fact that over the years tens of thousands (if not millions) have converted to Christianity, Islam and other religions, and now the Brahmin-dominated BJP-RSS regime is scared? It it true that whole area's and states in India's North East have now become Christian and Muslim majority over the last decades, something which the Hinduvta state must feel is a threat to it's integrity?

we are all working toghether with blessing of lord jesus

About 30 children took part. Priests and elders made the children write the words “Daivame Sthuthi,” meaning “Praise the Lord,” on rice-filled platters.

The ritual was conducted on a podium set up in the cathedral compound, with a glowing portrait of Jesus Christ serving as the backdrop. Two big traditional lamps and a couple of candles were lit, with the Bible kept open beside a golden cross in the middle.

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20031005-095217-1789r.htm

Re: Missionaries in India

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
I will reserve my comments until Indian guppies step into the discussion thread.

[/QUOTE]

Well the truth is there are idiots out there whose main aim in life is to "save the souls of the lost people in Asia". Dunno if you remember the infamous festival of darkness comment made in the US a couple of years back.

What I dont understand it is if the person converts for the money, how does it matter? Cause he will be called John but he will still pray to the pantheon of Hindu Gods.

And if he converts out of belief, then again what point of reconversion?

I think Indians should play it right, let them spend money here for social causes, and once the money is over kick them out, a fool and his money are soon parted.

BTW, I am a Christian, and not all Christians are bitten by the convert the world bug.

I dont know about other places but here in the USA people are coming to Islam with little or no preaching - Alhamdolillah.

About 2 months back a devout christian came into Islam(and nobody preached him anything about Islam) - Alhamdolillah and not that far away(30 mins drive) in another city an african american brother came into Islam.

Like this there are countless cases of americans who are coming into Islam - Alhamdolillah.

and for many there is no preaching required !

Even in the supposedly tolerant south of India there have been attacks on Christian missionaries by Hinduvta fanatics, like this one earlier this year…

American missionary attacked in Kerala by right-wing Hindus allegedly belonging to a group close to the ruling party.](BBC NEWS | South Asia | US missionary attacked in India)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *

American missionary attacked in Kerala by right-wing Hindus allegedly belonging to a group close to the ruling party.**
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Well the missionary was actually asked to leave the country as he had misused his tourist visa to proletise. Doesnt justify the violence tho. But from what I remember arrests were made and people were punished.

The point is that such incidents are rightly seen as wrong in India and contrary to what you may think the state govt did try to prevent such such violent incidents from happening.

Re: Re: Missionaries in India

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Toddytapper: *
I think Indians should play it right, let them spend money here for social causes, and once the money is over kick them out, a fool and his money are soon parted.

BTW, I am a Christian, and not all Christians are bitten by the convert the world bug.
[/QUOTE]

Interesting comments. I guess the issue is not so much black/white but in a gray area. Bhuddhists that do very little prostelyzing in India have gained many converts in India. The Christian missionaries are trying a lot of underhanded things to convert but certainly there are social reasons for Dalits and Dravidians of the South to be more open to conversion.

It is rare to see a non-Dalit North Indian converting to or being Christian, perhaps that has to do with the fact that they are at the helm as well?

I don't like fundo missionares operating in any country PERIOD.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kabir: *
Its partly true that missionaries may have a hidden agenda of converting the tribals or hindus but the fact remains who are the people that are converting? its the low caste or the tribals who are at the bottom of indian society that are converting though some may argue that they are being bribed but even if we presume that they are deing offered goodies for converting arnt they getting a decent life.
[/QUOTE]

a decent life? why then are the christians demanding reservations for"dalit" christians - apparantly a new term as christianity does not practise casteism. why even mother teresa supported reservations for the so called "dalit" christians.

Re: Re: Re: Missionaries in India

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *

Interesting comments. I guess the issue is not so much black/white but in a gray area. Bhuddhists that do very little prostelyzing in India have gained many converts in India. The Christian missionaries are trying a lot of underhanded things to convert but certainly there are social reasons for Dalits and Dravidians of the South to be more open to conversion.

It is rare to see a non-Dalit North Indian converting to or being Christian, perhaps that has to do with the fact that they are at the helm as well?

I don't like fundo missionares operating in any country PERIOD.
[/QUOTE]

Well the reason maybe that St Thomas was supposed to have come to Kerala on the south coast about 2000 years back, and traditionally the west coast has had a large number of Christians.

The biggest proof that the christian missionaries have failed is the fact that the percentage of christians has not really increased dramaticly.

Like I said, India should just use the money and effort these crazies bring in and boot them out when there is no more money.....

Thats a fair trade, and if their whole preaching is regulated there will not be any violent incidents either.

It is only when things are ambiguos that things go wrong.

thats sounds to b a great idea. day by day iam really getting bored by the news about religious duplicity these missioneries indulge in. in many parts of tamilnadu they r doing the best to convert ppl by preaching their religion in the schools they run. when i accept it is a good,they r trying to gain advantage of the conditions in india with their dollars.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by khalif: *
day by day iam really getting bored by the news about religious duplicity these missioneries indulge in. in many parts of tamilnadu they r doing the best to convert ppl by preaching their religion in the schools they run.

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Most of the people that convert to Christianity and Islam in India tend these days to be from the hugely oppressed low caste Hindu community i.e. Dalits, Sudra's etc.

it is not that these ppl r enlightened about jesus n they convert.they r lured into convertion on the basis of money n nothng else.they claim that once they get converted, they r entitled to minority claims n so will get money.
this is not conversion for soul searching but for pecuniary benefits.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by khalif: *
...
this is not conversion for soul searching but for pecuniary benefits.
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If Hindus know that, then why all the fuss and cry?

If Hindus know that, then why all the fuss and cry?
even u knou american war on iraq is for oil.then y the various threads like the one v c in the forum. this is real stupidity.it is jus bcoz v knou it is for pecuniary benefits that v oppose them.had it been for other reasons v cannot n would not oppose it. v can do that neither in moral ground nor in political ground.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by khalif: *
even u knou american war on iraq is for oil.then y the various threads like the one v c in the forum. this is real stupidity.it is jus bcoz v knou it is for pecuniary benefits that v oppose them.had it been for other reasons v cannot n would not oppose it. v can do that neither in moral ground nor in political ground.
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The Hindus complaining against conversion are actually killing missionaries using violence to show their opposition to "conversion". However people who are against war or who know that Iraq war is for Oil are barely sharing their thoughts on this forum... Do you get the difference?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

The Hindus complaining against conversion are actually killing missionaries using violence to show their opposition to "conversion".
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Well high-caste Hindu's (who rule India) are against any non-Hindu and low caste Hindu who reject their domination of India and idealogy. Hence you have mass killings of Muslims, persecutions and murder of Christians, and countless atroctites committed against low caster groups like the Dalits and Sudras.