Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
You really need to learn how to respect others religion. I'm right and all others are wrong is the ideology that leads people no where
Well, people in the subcontinent worship rats, monkeys, and many consider cows holy and drink their urine. Am I being disrespective towards them? Just stating a fact.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Rest assured TTP or SSP cannot spread Islam, they can push people away at the most...
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Books written hundreds of years ago can't be reliable. Scholars accept them as gospels; they don't bother to do a research and compile what's reliable.
As for Tarikh Al-Tabari, it's unreliable. The person himself is a shia, but shias have fooled sunnis and sunnis say, there are two Tabaris, one is a shia and the other (the author of Tarikh Al-Tabari) is sunni. However, Tabari himself has written a disclaimer in his tareekh that the reports in it are not all authentic, as most of them are either from a weak/fabricated chain or without any chain.
Masudi was also a shia.
The author of siyar, Ibn Ishhaq was also a shia.
Lots of such people were shias, many of them were practising taqiyyah to fool sunnis.
so whom should we rely, when it comes to historical account of that era?
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Way to go! This proves the fact that most of our hindu friends also claim that Islam was indeed spread by force.
My dear friend during the muslim rule, most of North India remained part of successive islamic empires. Can you please explain as to why those areas became muslims where the sufis propagated the religion? Why Islam is present in Pakistan, and not the rest of North India? Why is Bangladesh an Islamic country although all areas surrounding it are non muslims? How did 25 % of Kerala in South India become muslims?
Well, sword is a symbol of power and strength. A believer must use his sword and strength to spread the message of Allah. Our Holy Prophet s.a.w used this sword against those who came in the way of Islam. So what's the problem?
I know Muslims of today are appologotic, in their paranoia. Some westerners or Hindus say Islam spread by force / sword, and they are like no no no it's wrong. Islam was spread by qawalis, urs and biryani, halwa and jalebis.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Rest assured TTP or SSP cannot spread Islam, they can push people away at the most...
Principally, they both are a bunch of ignorant retards, funded by the enemies of Islam. Most of SSP activists are from South Panjab, these people don't have good reputation for some reasons. And most TTP guys are from tribal areas, they are also ignorant and have little Islamic and scientific knowledge.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
One needs to open his eyes and see.
You didnt answer my question, why didnt Islam spread in Northern India? After all it has remained part of the Islamic empire for a thousand years? Delhi has always been the capital.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
so whom should we rely, when it comes to historical account of that era?
Pick and chose after checking for authenticity.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Pick and chose after checking for authenticity.
Whom do you rely brother?
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
One needs to open his eyes and see.
You didnt answer my question, why didnt Islam spread in Northern India? After all it has remained part of the Islamic empire for a thousand years? Delhi has always been the capital.
Christians live in Syria, Egypt etc though sahabah conquered them both.
If we use sword in the way of Allah, it doesn't mean we force people to convert to Islam. We only force their kafir rulers to leave the authority for Islam. A kafir has no right to rule the slaves of Allah no matter what their religion is!
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Whom do you rely brother?
Research work bro, there are reliable and unreliable reports in all books of history.
For example in Siffeen when Muawiyah ra sought peace; there are two kinds of narrations about that:
In Tareekh Al-Tabari, a hard core shia, Abi Mikhnaf Lut bin Yahya says Muawiya ra made his people carry copies of Quran on spear heads (which means Quran al Kareem would have been pierced in order to fix it on top of spears).
In Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah, it says Ameer Muawiyah ra sent Quran to Ali ra for mediation.
Now you see how different both reports are.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Christians live in Syria, Egypt etc though sahabah conquered them both.
If we use sword in the way of Allah, it doesn't mean we force people to convert to Islam. We only force their kafir rulers to leave the authority for Islam. A kafir has no right to rule the slaves of Allah no matter what their religion is!
Doesnt this negate your previous claim that the religion was spread through the sword then? Through sword you can rule people, but cant force them to change their religions. The biggest thing in the context of the subcontinent was caste system which many people hated but they had no other option. When the sufis propagated equality to the masses they converted. Read the history regarding spread of Islam in any area of the subcontinent, and delve into the details you will understand what I am talking about. Anyways, I am out of this thread.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Doesnt this negate your previous claim that the religion was spread through the sword then? Through sword you can rule people, but cant force them to change their religions. The biggest thing in the context of the subcontinent was caste system, and when the sufis propagated equality to the people they converted. But read the history of any area of the subcontinent, and when you delve into the details you will understand what I am talking about. Anyways, I am out of this thread.
Well, the sword removes the kafir rulers; the country comes under Islam. The people of that kafir country see the beauty of Islam and they convert to it. Others accept Islam for posts in the government and good jobs. Alright they were opportunists, no worries, their children will be good Muslims!
And sufis, what are they doing today in Pakistan? Look at the dirt and filth around in Pakistan, India and elsewhere. Do you see any such angelic sufis around?
If there were sufis in the subcontinent, they only ruined the faith of people, converted them to half-hindus. There's lots of shirk and innovation in the subcontinent because of these deviant sufis.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
Research work bro, there are reliable and unreliable reports in all books of history.
For example in Siffeen when Muawiyah ra sought peace; there are two kinds of narrations about that:
In Tareekh Al-Tabari, a hard core shia, Abi Mikhnaf Lut bin Yahya says Muawiya ra made his people carry copies of Quran on spear heads (which means Quran al Kareem would have been pierced in order to fix it on top of spears).
In Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah, it says Ameer Muawiyah ra sent Quran to Ali ra for mediation.
Now you see how different both reports are.
But you said that these both historians were shia. You also said current lot of historians is also biased. So where should one go. Do you suggest some books or the students of history of that era are also subject to personal interpretation. Chose whatever they like?
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
But you said that these both historians were shia. You also said current lot of historians is also biased. So where should one go. Do you suggest some books or the students of history of that era are also subject to personal interpretation. Chose whatever they like?
It's not about likes or dislikes. It's about what reports of history are according to the established facts.
For example people (shias and those impressed by shias) say Yazid was a drunkard, kept dogs for sex, did other dirty acts (all propagated by shias). Now people of reasoning would see if Yazid was like that under his father Muawiyah ra. If so then these ugly practices were done right under the nose of a sahabi and khalifah / king (Muawiyah ra). Alright, do we have any sound evidence that these filthy acts were committed under the khilafah of Muawiyah ra especially by his own son? Of course we don't have any such evidence. It's not possible either. Because that was the age of Sahabah. Therefore the conclusion is, all such dirty reports in condemnation of Yazid were fabricated by Persian losers who were defeated and disgraced by the Banu Umaiyah!
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
And sufis, what are they doing today in Pakistan? Look at the dirt and filth around in Pakistan, India and elsewhere. Do you see any such angelic sufis around?
If there were sufis in the subcontinent, they only ruined the faith of people, converted them to half-hindus. There's lots of shirk and innovation in the subcontinent because of these deviant sufis.
I do not support whats happening in and around the shrines of those people, and I dont think they ever instructed their followers to do that. It still does not reduce their role in spreading the religion in the subcontinent.
Re: Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams
I am closing this now.
Anyone spreading hate against someone else just for their beliefs should not bother coming here. Take it elsewhere.