Re: ---Marketing Major:
Ask99, I would extend this oppurtunity to offer you some guidance. I feel its my responsibility to help anyone out going the creative route. Feel free to PM me with anything related. My knowledge is open to you...and Good luck. aliG
Thank you for your offer, I will:)
Re: ---Marketing Major:
---Just heard from my advisor that if you have amanagement degree...u can still get a Marketing job...all depends on how you "Market " Yourself? AnY Truth to that in real world:).
ahem..not an appropiate word.
who ever told u this lacks the potency to move fwd, n unable to think high.
-if nyone wana market themselves then they dont need any degree. just be jargonic.
-so far very few marketing strategies inspired me, such as of Channel.
-in marketing all that matters, how well the "Idea" is n then how well u "Exemplify that Idea". management is much rigorous term n requires much more depth of field.
Re: ---Marketing Major:
alig but ppl who know nothing about stuff get jobs in other depts too, seen sales ppl thrown in ops mgmt roles, ops ppl thorown in financial planing roles.
Thats true. And there is a logical philosophy behind it. Not all managers are asked to take up different hats. Most good companies have a good eye on the profiles of their people. If company feels that a certain person is capable enough, he is offered position under different roles for his/her own career development. Top managers need to know a lot about all the different roles in their organization and what better way to learn then to do it yourself.
I have myself been moved from Ops mgmt - > sales position. However, it was a seamless move for me. Ops mgmt and pre-ops mgmt positions had helped me develop reasonably strong technical/personnel skills. Those skills help me understand my client's problem and then I can advise how my company can help them overcome those problems and then achieve their own targets. This is what sales and marketing is about, I think.
Re: ---Marketing Major:
Its a logical observation, and its standard practice. But the rest of my statement that you didn't quote simply implied that people who know nothing about the field are given jobs in such a department...thereby robbing new commers who have graduated with a marketing degree.
I am a marketing professional and am now established, but the amount of frustration I felt was incredible. These are observations based on two full years of irrelevant applications in big firms.
So there are two scenarios:
A marketing position is open in my company. I have 2 options outlined below:
1- Hire a fresh marketing graduate who knows marketing theory but know, almost, nothing about my company, its products, it culture, etc.
2- I have my switched on jr. manager who has been in the company for 2 years. He understands my company, its culture, etc and has a fairly good idea about the products and the technology but does not have marketing experience.
For me choice will be easy no. 2. It will bring additional benefits of career progression in the company. My employees won't have to look out of the window to see where they should be working next year.
Re: ---Marketing Major:
So there are two scenarios:
A marketing position is open in my company. I have 2 options outlined below:
1- Hire a fresh marketing graduate who knows marketing theory but know, almost, nothing about my company, its products, it culture, etc.
2- I have my switched on jr. manager who has been in the company for 2 years. He understands my company, its culture, etc and has a fairly good idea about the products and the technology but does not have marketing experience.
For me choice will be easy no. 2. It will bring additional benefits of career progression in the company. My employees won't have to look out of the window to see where they should be working next year.
But in the bigger picture of things..isnt that so unfair...then isnt it better for someone to just start in a company and crawl your way up no matter the major
Re: ---Marketing Major:
Fraudia sahib,
I will take your word for it. I can bring the marketing aspect of it to light only, because its the only one I am familiar with.
:) I understand, I am speaking as a marketing guy who has worked in ops for one mutlinational, although the role was helping redesign the processes and tools that were used to interact with business partners. and with another one to help develop customer self fulfillment tools for 401K stuff. so the marketing angle was there but the job was in ops.
Re: ---Marketing Major:
-if nyone wana market themselves then they dont need any degree. just be jargonic.
-so far very few marketing strategies inspired me, such as of Channel.
-in marketing all that matters, how well the "Idea" is n then how well u "Exemplify that Idea". management is much rigorous term n requires much more depth of field.
sorry, ppl can slice thru 'jargon' very swiftly. Jargon filled resumes of people who dont have skills, knowledge, experience is very interesting, I have seen my Boss skin such ppl alove in interviews. (we do group interviews)
and whe you speak of marketing strategies, and that you only like Chanel (not Channel oye), do u mean 'marketing strategy' or do you mean their advertising strategy?
marketing is not just how well the idea is and how well you exemplify it. its about competirive landscape, it is about user behavior, it is about ROI, it is about total portfolio strategy, it is about penetration and growth strategies, transitions and product phase-outs, strategic positioning of loss leaders. Its promotions mgmt, not just the execution and creative spin on it, but cost versus benefit, what promotion to what demographic, thru what channel in what region, at what time, at what level.. and how do we measure the impact. the media spend on advertising and the lift from that. Marketing guys are incvolved in product redeisgn based on consumer and competitive pressures, features benefits etc. Product mgmt, Brand Mgmt, Category Mgmt are all aspects of marketing ppl dont think about. then you have marketing research, qualitative, quantitative, global prodcution, trends forecasting.
I believe business schools especially at an undergrad level are not doing a good job of teaching kids what marketing really is.
and for advertising.. please talk to ad aganecies and ppl working there, ppl think of advertising and think they will be the folks in the black tutrtlenecks and prada imagining the way cool ad that will air on TV, but the creative work is by and far done by ppl with backgrounds in media, film, graphic arts. creative writers and art directors and specialists work in these groups and work on concepts, the actual development of the ad is outsourced to specialized studios .
other groups manage client relationships..acct mgmt lets say, which also includes understanding what eh client needs are and developing a solution.
you may have the best product in the world, but who is it targeted to, what else are they buying, what are their motivations, where would thety buy these, what else do they buy and where, what do they read, what do they watch, how will we measure which specific camppaign was a success. how do we find out what your competition is doing, what have been their results.
Re: ---Marketing Major:
you know most of the time schools teach what marketing is about, but we never get the real feel for using the terminology in a career sense. It is like memorizing the terms for the exam and then not using them again. When ppl actually get experience in the work place it makes more sense and everything comes in to place.....thats just kind of my perspective.
Re: —Marketing Major:
correct me if i am wrong that “Advertising is just one segment of Marketing”.
what ever u said is correct. n for institutionz part: that is y i decided not to go for BBa or BCom cuz institutionz sux in this manner, n that is y decided to go for “wat ya call the real brainers work” 
btw thnx for rewinding this crash course that i took last time when i was in grade 5. (ya ya i extracted it from Milk Pak’s 20 min long ad :D. they showed every single thing, from how to take it out from a cow, to its processing, to brand packaging n designing, n to how-wat-where-when we drink it 
)
-i utterly believe bizness (even a transaction) kernay k leya u need bhega not degree.
n u r also right about jargon part, but u r missing an aspect that i answered to her concern of Marketing herself. whereas ur refering to initial stage that is to first get a job. my answer is based upon assumption that she already have a job.
so for this she dont need to spend the money to get a degree. she just requires a crash course related to marketing+ brain filled with ideas+ determination to execute of those ideas + plus a job.
-the other day i was discussing this notion with my bro (who is doing course on business strategies n planning) that all these management/biz/ finance professors r themselves active member of this fraternity. so y would they feed real stuff to their up-coming/potential competitors.
i paved this idea in return to his analysis of lecture he had that ppl in west are getting worried that how in China n in india every tom dick n harry thinking of having same life style, as westernerz r currently enjoying, n giving it a name of Pollution, hence alarmized it as global warming, or call it instabilty n threat to the environment. (i mean khud ker rahay hain to kuch nahi lakin yeh sooch k koe dosera na keray, is non less than feudalism approach. but this is how small fish gets bigger 
).
p.s. for chanel, dark matter came infront of me when i typed another “n”. 
(ya ya i am being jargonic here). n i meant its marketing strategies. wasay to their adz also have great involvement of semiotics, but kher.
ps2. if i feel like i gonna send u list of courses that what i have done n what i m doing currently so u dont take me a big time choroo, but even if u do wat possibly i can do- simply nothing 
Re: —Marketing Major:
sure..
except you are not getting your foot in the door with bheja and not degree, and not just a degree, right degree from right university. In yori own canada there are ppl with bheja and pakistani degrees who cant get jobs.
so what do you like about Chanel’s marketing strategies? and are we talking about couture, cosmetics or something else?
why do courses matter, u just said earlier, its bheja and not degree(or courses) are you negating yourself now 
Re: ---Marketing Major:
you know most of the time schools teach what marketing is about, but we never get the real feel for using the terminology in a career sense. It is like memorizing the terms for the exam and then not using them again. When ppl actually get experience in the work place it makes more sense and everything comes in to place.....thats just kind of my perspective.
that is why internships and case studies are so vital, they help ppl put these concepts into action.
I hated the classes where i got as much out of teh teacher as I woudl ahve just reading the book on my own, and loved the classes where profs had ppl actively engaged and there were case based exercises. its a shame to see that is still not the standard approach across the US. I know AACSB accredited schools were under a mandate to increase case based teaching at both undergrad and grad levels.
Re: ---Marketing Major:
But in the bigger picture of things..isnt that so unfair...then isnt it better for someone to just start in a company and crawl your way up no matter the major
Well! No! I think it is pretty fair. If you are good, you can progress in the company at a much faster rate, however, start at the baseline.
Re: —Marketing Major:
yep that is y i left.
seeshhh…aisi baatain urdu may likha kerain.
app us waqt bhi meray “n” ko nahi samjhay thay.
kher i cant discuss it further.
acha howa app nay bata deya. werna i would be having hard time compiling them. 
on serious note: nope. it varies from situation to situation. sometimes ur portfolio works n sometimes not. it solely depends on candidates stress level that how he/she want to handle the situation.
Re: —Marketing Major:
nahh! Fraudz dont be so narrow minded. it is possible!
this is wat i design for my self
Re: —Marketing Major:
wat can i say on this
u have ur own experiences n i have my own experiences, and cognitions.
p.s. designers work is not to bound him/her self. he/ she must always dignose different possibilites.
“A true painter must be able to paint in every style known to man,
otherwise he’s just a craftsman benefiting from the faculties of art
for his own good.”- Ashraf Gohar Goreja
Ps2. nothing is impossible. even the word impossible says itself “I M POSSIBLE”. it is just we call r limits[of perceiving], impossible.
Re: —Marketing Major:
how about “impossible is nothing 
”
Re: ---Marketing Major:
ur juxtaposing urself.
my comment was presenting macro picture of the function.
where as ur argument is the micro analysis of the same function. in fact wat u wrote is limited to one domain.
p.s. zaroori nahi k ager app na ker sakain to koe or bhi nahi ker sakta.
Re: ---Marketing Major:
Wow... this has turned into quite an interesting debate... I must say I don't agree with sum of the things people have said here.... as far as education and schools and ur career goes.... I agree that sometimes what they teach you in school...in not very applicable in real life...but thats not just the case with marketing... that happens with every career! ... someone wanted to know what I do .. . I currently work as a marketing manager for a firm that deals with educational software...so I design campaigns....budget them....allocate resources.....run the campaign and analayze results....I deal with a lot of suppliers and ad agencies...most of my work is direct marketing.... I love each and every thing about the whole process.... I dont agree that you can only get into marketing if you are already with the company.....most companies do require at least 2-3 yrs experience...but then again...thats the case with every career!... its really hard to get a job once ur fresh out of school and have no contacts.... A lot of my friends...that worked with me...r now working at ad agencies....sales positions....media marketing etc.... they did have some basic training in marketing but have gone on to different positions now....at other companies...so my point is that you can find positions in other companies....its not totally true that all marketing hires are from within the company.....right now...its the employees market...not the employers....