http://www.washingtonlife.com/backissues/02mar/verbatim.htm
A read
Thank you zakk, Rajput Fury for the info!!!
I have seen her speak and liked her a lot. She is decent and articulate and appears sincere to her job. I think she is a great ambassador for our country.
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*Originally posted by Zakk: *
I have another point to make though, do you think people are harder on her because she is a female allegedly drinking?
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Definitely.
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Yeah I know the feeling, it was a statement of fact RF I was not condoning drinking, in fact a close member of my family was nearly deprived of admission at Medical College in Peshawar because the sifarish dispensers and recipient were drinking buddy's.
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This is insane! I hate to jump at knee jerk conclusions but ** any** official of Pakistan must take an oath not to drink (violate the principles of Islam and in extension Pakistan) or be fired. Why is the common Pakistani not outraged by this?
If the MMA comes with an agenda to wipe out this culture of "sifarishi drinking," I'll fully support. Pakistan is a country founded on Islam, any official deviating from it's principles should never continue to be in power.
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I have another point to make though, do you think people are harder on her because she is a female allegedly drinking? After all how many of her male predecessors drank? Or lived it up? Anyway thanks for the info RF; I am sure Spock's saved this thread lol. **
Zakk, yara you may have a point. Being a female, she may have been treated with a double standard. I remember when it was a minor scandel when BB was seen dancing in one of those ballroom style parties in Washington DC.
*This is insane! I hate to jump at knee jerk conclusions but any official of Pakistan must take an oath not to drink (violate the principles of Islam and in extension Pakistan) or be fired. Why is the common Pakistani not outraged by this? *
You can't legislate what goes on in people's homes RF; trying to do so just worsens the hypcrisy. What you can do is stop sifaris and things like that, and in any case what difference does an oath make to these people? people with no ikhlaq will swear on everything from God to their children to their own lives while continuing to do what they did before. In my opinion you only denigrate the Holy Quran or the religion when you make people make an oath they won't actually honour.
I know it's off topic, but just another point, I think generally Muslim socities tend to be less in general puritanical than most assume. When political officials in most English speaking countries are caught in acts of impropriety, they often are forced to make public apologies or resign from office in extreme cases (and in one mans case nearly impeached). While in Pakistan it's considered an example of what a " man" he is, if he's a known for "that" lifestyle. Women who live it up are bad, while men who do the same are just men...
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You can't legislate what goes on in people's homes RF; trying to do so just worsens the hypcrisy. What you can do is stop sifaris and things like that, and in any case what difference does an oath make to these people? people with no ikhlaq will swear on everything from God to their children to their own lives while continuing to do what they did before. In my opinion you only denigrate the Holy Quran or the religion when you make people make an oath they won't actually honour.
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Believe me, I totally understand what you are saying. I knew as much even when I was typing. The main issue comes down to Pakistan being an Islamic nation or not. If we call ourselves a nation founded on Islam, it is more than hypocritical for our elected officials to be drinking alcohol. On the other if we say forget Islam, we commit ourselves to secularism, then I say hell with it, if officials choose to drink thats their problem. Just like Turkey, there would be no hypocrisy. What irritates me to the breaking point is the use of Islam politically while pursuing unislamic activities. It is unfortunate of me to have seen these "types of people" in action. These "Pakistani" politicians and officials are nothing but the dogs of their long departed British masters...they wish that they were born britishers (or euros) but since they cant change that, the least they can do is drink like them.
I do not believe in legislating morality but you cannot have an "Islamic" Republic of Pakistan when the President is a renowed scotch aficionado!
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I know it's off topic, but just another point, I think generally Muslim socities tend to be less in general puritanical than most assume. When political officials in most English speaking countries are caught in acts of impropriety, they often are forced to make public apologies or resign from office in extreme cases (and in one mans case nearly impeached). While in Pakistan it's considered an example of what a " man" he is, if he's a known for "that" lifestyle. Women who live it up are bad, while men who do the same are just men... **
Again, your 100% on target! The problem has more to do with the corruption of our societies to the core where nothing shocks people anymore. Honestly, I think Pakistan is going to hell because of these expectations of people, in believing that a drinking, philandering morally degenarate is a "man."
It's indeed ironic that the President of the US does not drink and has abstained from alcohol for 20 years and the so called head of "Islamic" Pakistan is known for his drinking.
Zakk, I fully agree on the double standards set up by our society for women. If I had to make a call, I would say both men and women living that lifestyle are unfit to govern Pakistan.
Honestly, I think Pakistan is going to hell because of these expectations of people, in believing that a drinking, philandering morally degenarate is a “man.”
I agree it is a terrible mentality that treats human life and morality in such a low way. A Pakistani writer recently wrote something which I found very powerful and very true, I am pasting it below
Ours, sadly, is a completely brutalised one in which only might is right, in which the present is the only time that matters, in which short-term gain is the only thing that counts, in which a fast buck is to die for. Nothing else: all the good things by which a people are judged, and therefore the countries
they belong to: sharam, haya, manners, looking out for the next person, giving credit where it is due, are all gone.
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Originally posted by Zakk: *
**Honestly, I think Pakistan is going to hell because of these expectations of people, in believing that a drinking, philandering morally degenarate is a "man."*
I agree it is a terrible mentality that treats human life and morality in such a low way. A Pakistani writer recently wrote something which I found very powerful and very true, I am pasting it below
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Thanks for the article :) I completely agree. If you look at how many basic tenets of Islam, Pakistan and Pakistanis are breaking, it just reflects on our sad state. While we can sit here in the US, UK talking about these issues in a critical manner, not many in Pakistan are thinking the same-- I don't blame them, to be brought up in a culture of corruption and moral degenaracy leave you resigned to the status quo.
Before we raise the banner of Islam in the international arena, let us become Muslims first, both culturally and spiritually.