I’m referring to the documentary currently on BBC2.
The documentary follows the lives of several Mancunians (residents of Manchester). Manchester is an industrial city in the North of England.
One of the Mancunians is Lubna a Pakistani girl who has just joined the Manchester Metropolitan police force. She is an intelligent (graduate), articulate and assertive. Something few Pakistani girls are here in the UK. Consider the shock I got when in last weeks episodes she came back from Pakistan with a husband !
She has married this native Pakistani and while he stays at home she works in the police force.
In yesterdays episode he said ‘a womans place in the home’ in broken English and there is increasing tension between the couple as Lubna starts night patrols on the rough streets of Manchester. Her husband who was quiet to begin with is now showing his typical Pakistani mysogynistic tendancies.
I am shocked that such an intelligent girl would choose to marry a native Pakistani. I can only forsee a rough time ahead for Lubna and her native Pakistani husband.
hi! every one especially you man you know what i mean haha
hay look it seems to me that even after sepending all your life you have gone bit to much.......(i would not say the world or they will delete it) any way let me tell you that i am american by birth but i do n't think that any else can hate america and jews as much as i do and what you were saying about pakis there (you know) is not correct at all you will find good and bad people every were and i have been to manchester a few times as well but iam not sure if you have ever been to london and seen pakis there (MUNZA PLEASE DO N"T DELTE THIS IAM JUST TELLING SOME FACTS NOTHING OFFENCIVE) your english bred pakistani do n't mind pissing on the road maravana and other different drugs are much common amongst "IN IT" pakis there and ofcourse i can not mension a few other things or my message will be deleted and people over there prefer NATIVE paki guys . who ever will read this in future (IF IT SATYED ) might think that iam bullshitting but i know that you kow it's true and iam waiting for your ansewr thanx
Dear Shazi,
We have absolutely nothing against your personal opinions. Believe it or not, we have a history where we tolerated the worst. But, I think, we have learnt our lesson. We are not going to allow band lingo here. You want to know why? Well, we did a little survey some time ago. 12% of our visitors were under 15! So, would you rather explain yourself in kinder tones or let these teenagers learn the bad from you? Please think.
I am sure there are always more than one way to express youself. And I firmly believe that bad lingo may be avoided.
hi!
dear azkar iam really sorry for that i would never like any teenager or minor to learn and bad thing from me . i would defintly take care of that from now on . i just took the statement fo taj mensioning the marriage with NATIVE PAKISTANI to personally because i have lived most of my life abroad i know how do these guys feel and think about pakistan and that si the only thing that hurts me may be to other people and you as well . but i will positively take care of that . i am not like that iam an easy going person .
The use of abusive language should not be tolerated in
any civilised forum. If we cannot hold a discussion
without resorting to filthy language then we are nothing
but savages.
I have since my original post tried explaining what I meant
in the thread 'why we consider ourselves inferior'.
I think the root cause of the problem is a serious
misunderstanding, perhaps I ought to have explained my view
more clearly though a misunderstanding is no excuse for the
vile language. I do not consider UK bred Pakistanis superior
to native Pakistanis nor was it my intention to cause offence
to native Pakistanis. I apologise without reservation to anyone
whose feelings may have been hurt following my comments.
Now a few comments (or corrections rather) on Shezi's comments
above:
Please read my post under 'why we consider ourselves inferior'
where I briefly describe problems faced by UK born Pakistani girls
when they marry native Pakistanis.
You'll find urinating in public is not a common trait in Pakistanis
regardless of whether they're from Manchester (North UK) or
London (South UK) !
The incidence of smoking soft drugs such as marijuana is increasing
amongst the youth in the UK and this problem affects everyone not just
Pakistanis. We do have a drug problem here amongst the youth and it does
need to be tackled. This is not a Pakistani specific problem, it is a
problem found amongst the English too and as we assimilate more with
the host community you'll find we also share their problems in our
communities too.
The above said however does not distract from my original post regarding
problems with Pakistani girls in the UK marrying native Pakistanis.
i was n't really expecting this (you last reply) from you no harsh feelings now .
let's end it here .
plus for my very first post regarding this topic the one that has been removed deserved to be removed i appologise for any mis-bhairou
let's end it here and guess what i think i should be going home now as it seems that it's gonna rain and ...........hoooo
by the way come down here if you ever want to enjoy winter during june july
take care see(>>>>>>) ya
bye for now
Dear Farooq Taj
Marriage is a real problem and no one knows how his/her spouse is going to be. But I have seen one thing, Where ever in the world you go, either europe or US a Pakistani would not like to be a friend to Pakistani (and if Pakistani is at some higher post and you are unluckily enrolled or employeed there, then he instead of helping or keeoing quite would try to cut your feet, you know what I mean) and the problem get worsen if there is a race difference ( Where is Islam?). I have seen in other nationalities that they help there fellows and they try for there progress and good future.
Concerning marriage in Pakistan we have a bad image of western society and it is clear there way of living is a direct clash with our religious and social standards. so if a Pakistani marry a fellow ABCD or (what would you call in UK) under the consideration that she would atleast follow a little bit of Islam and things go out totaly against what would he do. you should not call him with bad words but try to improve Pakistani girls abroad. As for inguinity is concerned, every one has his own standards. Salman Rushdi is thought to be a genious in non Muslim world and you know what we think of him.
Thanks waiting for your comments
WELL FORGIVE ME SIR, FOR BEING SO NICE TO YOU. ANYWAY I COULD'NT SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT YOU, 'CUZ I'VE READ YOUR MESSAGE AND I CANT DENY THE FACT THAT YOU ARE WAY TOO INTELLIGENT THAN MJ.I DONT KNOW HOW HE ENDED UP BEING YOUR FRIEND, BUT MAY GOD KEEP YOU IN HIS PROTECTION.
I agree that Pakistanis do compete with each other, we have difficulty in co-operating and working together to accomplish common goals.
You’ve summed up the situation regarding the culture clash between Pakistani girls here and native Pakistanis in an interesting way
The assumption here is that it is the Pakistani girl that needs to change. I don’t wish to digress into discussing the differences between the two cultures, suffice to say that I prefer the culture here in the West.
My suggestion is that UK bred Pakistanis should marry other UK bred Pakistanis. It is important that the couple come from a similiar background and that they think along the same lines.
MR.TAJ
WOULD YOU MIND IF I ASK YOU THAT WHICH PART OF PAKISTAN DO YOU BELONG
MIR PUR
OOOOOOO YES MIR PUR (AK)OOOOOOOOAAY HE IS FROM MIR PUR HE IS A MIRPURIA I SHOULD HAVE STOPED ARGUING WITH YOU AGES AGO
WE ACCEPT THAT WE DIID SIR WHAT EVER YOU SAID ALI & ENETRPISE SIR IS RIGHT
SIR WILLIAM FAROOQ IS RIGHT
HE IS FROM MIR PUR HE CAN NEVER BE WRONG
AND ALL THOSE SITES HE HAS MENTIONED ARE SECOND TO QURAN AND SINNAH THOSE SITES DOES NOT CONTAIN WESTERN PROPOGANDA BUT TRUE FACTS WHICH MR. OOO AM SORRY
SIR WILLIAM FAROOQ HAS MENTIONED
To all you guys can i as a western female just say that i have been raised in an islamic way - i have had an arranged marriage to a guy from Pakistan - as soon as my husband got leave to remain in this country he accused me of having an affair with my younger brother and left me!
this has happened to many people i know - the guy comes over and then walks out or makes the girls life hell.
I am not a westernised girl - i have always stuck with my culture - i mean my Pakistani culture!
Thanks for reading.
Nazia
You speak from experience and I too know of many Pakistani girls both close to my family and outside who have suffered like yourself.
However I think that on this particular forum judging by the quality (or lack of) of the posts that the participants are young and inexperienced. Most of the people here are simply too young to appreciate the real problems being faced by so many. There is a lot of zulm in our community here and perhaps with time things will get better for all of us.
Below are a couple of articles you might find of interest, I think you’ll find they’re all relevant.
Farouq,
Please do not be discouraged by the apparent age (either biological or mental) of the participants in this forum. Also, let's not discredit a mind for it's experience, or lack thereof. You'd be surprised at how aware the young folks are of what's going on around them -- even if it is at a subconscious level.
Do keep in mind that there are numerous visitors that read but do not post messages/responses.
This thread sheds light upon a touchy and very volatile issue within our community. I will not hesitate to say that the repercussions being encountered by UK based Pakistani families are, perhaps, multiplied yet again for those that live on this side of the pond with America and Canada presenting somewhat grander, though misconceived, ambition.
Nazia my heart, what is left of it, goes out to you but you are not alone so welcome to the club -- and feel free to contact on e-mail.
I take exception to the views you have expressed in your message.
Speaking from first-hand experience I have found numerous organizations in the business sector here in North America and also in the UK (I have yet to travel the world), where high-ranking Pakistani officials have gone out of their way to assist fellow Pakistanis.
Next, the issue of inter-continental marriage within cultures is huge. Too many homes have been sacrificed to this evil and too many lives destroyed as a result. Farouq's stance on having similar roots but also a commonality in the environment within which you have been raised, speaks volumes and we would be wise to heed his warning.
Though your message presents itself in such fashion, I hope that you were not intentionally pointing the finger at the attitudes of foreign-bred Pakistani girls as a cause of marriage breakdown. For if that were the case, your research on the topic would clearly be flawed.
With many examples at hand I can validate my claim that a great number of Pakistani girls raised in North America are bred under stricter guidelines with parents already aware of the present dangers in western society as compared to their counterparts in Karachi or Lahore.
Please elaborate on your statement.
Note: My refernce to "first hand experience" is in no way an assertion of authoritative knowledge on the subject. It merely represents information that is derived from direct experience rather than vague statistics based on unknown qualifying factors.
Respectfull Muzna
I was just trying to reply for that case and let me explain my views in some steps
1) I agree that a lot of Pakistani men divorce their western wives after geting green card or equivalent. In some cases geting green card can be the only goal of marriage and a preplaned divorce follows.
This doesnot mean that all of them are like this, if fingers in one hand cannot be alike how cam we aspect 150 million people to be the same.
2) The moral situation in Pakistan is detariorating and now you can see a lot of punks in the streets and bunches of boys doing nothing but looking at the passing by girls.
3) We have different character standards for boys and girls(I have seen Pakistani families in Europe and America with such standards) For boys if they are doing misdeeds,parents specially mothers say so what he is a boy and boys do such things, and if a girl is doing something wrong then all the moral and religious rules are applied(They should be applied but why not on male offsprings).
4) (You might not agree) Some of our people when they come to west they forget about their origin and they try to be westranize as a result they are no more Pakistanis as well as they are not 100% western(Which is evident they can't be)
5) Pakistani's who live in the west try to get back to Pakistan as soon as their daughters become adult, and if they dont their second priority is to get a Pakistani husband for their daughters(They are supposed to be Farmanbardar) and if not then final hide out is to marry to a Pakistani living abroad.
To sum up we all are living with dual standards we try to be western and at the same time claim to Pakistani and Muslim can we all reply to ourselves ARE WE TRUE 100% TRUE MUSLIMS? (we cannot lie to ourselves)