Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
Yeah that's better lol :D Okay I'll leave.
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
I think these all castes relates to Punjab and these are shared by all religious communities of Punjab
No special castes for Muslims. The only ones different are Syeds, sheikhs, butts, arain and Pashtun tribes.
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
No special castes for Muslims. The only ones different are Syeds, sheikhs, butts, arain and Pashtun tribes.
so this says that apart from Syeds, Shaikhs, Pathan, Mughals, there were no castes in central Indian Muslims and after partition migrants were able to migrate from Ajlaafs to Ashraafs
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
so this says that apart from Syeds, Shaikhs, Pathan, Mughals, there were no castes in central Indian Muslims and after partition migrants were able to migrate from Ajlaafs to Ashraafs
Caste system is more prevalent in punjab and other areas of Pakistan. I don't think it was the same in UP and other areas of India.
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
Caste system is more prevalent in punjab and other areas of Pakistan. I don't think it was the same in UP and other areas of India.
but there was bifurcation of Ashraaf of Ajlaaf and sub-division of these categories
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
I'd like to read that book, Muqa Bai. What's it called?
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
I'd like to read that book, Muqa Bai. What's it called?
Its in Sindhi. Sindh ja qabeela, zaatiyon ( Tribes and castes of Sindh). You can ask me for any particular caste. :)
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
I don't think there would be many Muslims in Ludhiana in any case, as its located in Indian punjab. :)
Just one tehsil of Sangrur district, Malerkotla has one :)
Dont know whether there is Muslim population in devband and Bareli
Huge, Deoband has nearly 50 % population which is muslim. I am in meerut today :D, population is nearly 35% here, Bareilly is similar, I lived as a child in this city :
There are Muslims in UP still. The people of punjab who migrated into Pakistan kept their castes, barring a few who changed them to become higher caste. :)
Nearly 20%, and are politically powerful as well
What are those castes? Syed, Shaikh, Pathan, Mughal
syed,sheikh,pathan, mughal
then converted castes like Julaha, Nayi, etc
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
Just one tehsil of Sangrur district, Malerkotla has one :)
You mean one of the tehsil in Ludhyana (Sangrur) stiil has Muslim majority?
PS: do they still use word tehsil? No Hindi equivalent. Seems Sahir Ludhyanvi's city still owns Urdu :)
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
I think that instead of using the word 'caste', we should use the word 'family'. Caste has negative connotations to it. Because it reminds of 4-layered Hindu caste system.
True that most Muslims in India don't have caste or family names. This is why Urdu speaking people mostly use two names instead of three. Because they don't have the family name.
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
I think that instead of using the word 'caste', we should use the word 'family'. Caste has negative connotations to it. Because it reminds of 4-layered Hindu caste system. True that most Muslims in India don't have caste or family names. This is why Urdu speaking people mostly use two names instead of three. Because they don't have the family name.
They did followed categorization of Ashraaf o Ajlaaf and then each category has sub-category like Ashraaf were divided into four (Syed, Shaikh, Pathan / Afghan and Mughal). On other hand, Ajlaaf were recognised according to their profession like Nai, Qasai, KunjRe, Pansari, etc.
This was compartmentalization in society which crept into Muslims when they observed caste systems in Hindus
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
Is the book online or do you own a physical copy? I love learning about these things but never can find copies. Especially for Sindhi, Saraiki, Pashto books 
You guys in karachi read and write sindhi in the urdu type script, right? I have a book for learning Sindhi that uses BOTH urdu script AND devanagari (hindi script) which is pretty helpful since my urdu isn’t too good lol
And yeah, there are still some Muslim Populations in Indian Punjab. I was watching some documentary video about some village in punjab (forgot the link ) and there was this very famous masjid there and the imam came to tell about the history of the place.
Then like Kaur bhen ji said earlier, Malerkotla is majority Muslim population (Only place in Indian Punjab with Muslim Majority I think)
Then I remember one of my uncles telling me about some history of Malerkotla, that during the times of Guru Gobind Singh and the Mughals, the Guru’s sons were to be killed or something and the ruler of Malerkotla wrote to the Mughal emperor on their behalf that “leave his sons alone, what you do to him is different, but keep his sons alone” and the Guru declared Malerkotla a holy place, even after the Mughal emperor killed his sons.
Then during partition, when non muslims saught refuge in Malerkotla, the Muslims living there said something like “None of these refugees are to be harassed and they are to be given care”
Videos about Malerkotla (Punjabi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7a6Yrg3TQ
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
Amazing to know that there was a place in East Punjab during partition, which was safe for Muslims.
We in Karachi read Sindhi in Arabic like script but Arabs will be ‘behosh’ if they are asked to read Sindhi. It got a lot of variations
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
Oh so it's more like Arabic script, not Urdu/Persian? Do they have a lot of different letters from Arabic?
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
You mean one of the tehsil in Ludhyana (Sangrur) stiil has Muslim majority?
PS: do they still use word tehsil? No Hindi equivalent. Seems Sahir Ludhyanvi's city still owns Urdu :)
yes word tehsil is used all over north India, I deccan it is called Taluka :D
Amazing to know that there was a place in East Punjab during partition, which was safe for Muslims.
We in Karachi read Sindhi in Arabic like script but Arabs will be 'behosh' if they are asked to read Sindhi. It got a lot of variations
In india, Sindhi write in Devnagari, don't know how tough is urdu, but devanagri is tough to write :)
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
They also use Taluqa for Tehsil in Sindh 
yes, In India they use Devnagri for writing Sindhi and thats why when the works of Indian Sindhi writers publish in Pakistan, they call it translation 
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
Here are extracts from the book ‘Sindhi Language’ – (pages 94 & 95) addressing your query:
Since in Sindhi writing system, short vowels are not usually written, the appearance of consonants has confused many. Short vowels are represented by diacritical marks of ُ ,ِ ,َ on or below the letters, and since the indigenous speakers manage without them the practice of writing them has been discontinued.
There are three consonants and three vowels in each word. Since Sindhi uses the Arabic script therefore in the usage of vowels, (zair) ِ , (zabar) َand (pesh) ُ are shown in the above examples.
In addition to the vowels, there are the following consonants in Sindhi:
While the following extra letters have come from Arabic:
ح ق ع ء c d e ص
These letters are extra because most of the sounds that they carry are non existent in Sindhi, or they are present in some other form in Sindhi. The typical
Arabic sounds are neither used and pronounced in Sindhi nor do they fit in the mood of Sindhi language. In fact removing these consonants from Sindhi would
make it more easily writeable and typing and publishing work of Sindhi would become easy and cost-effective.
PS: The format of Sindhi letters is not supported by the site, so you can download and read this book from the following link:
http://www.sindhila.org/PDF/all%20books/Sindhi%20Language.pdf
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
The way Indians are moving, I think soon vernacular writing will come to end, with writers like Chetan Bhagat and Amish Tripathi writing in English, soon everybody will start writing in english 
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
The way Indians are moving, I think soon vernacular writing will come to end, with writers like Chetan Bhagat and Amish Tripathi writing in English, soon everybody will start writing in english :)
poor languages :(
Re: Ludhyanwi Lakhnawi Meerathi
poor languages :(
Amish wrote Shiva Trilogy in english, I don't think that any big writer is writing in local languages, newspaper and news channel will remain for another generation but vernacular writing is coming to end :)