Limits put on new Muslim chaplain

Limits put on new Muslim chaplain

07-11-2003

By Charlie Savage

GUANTANAMO BAY, Cuba, Boston News – The US military has made plans to bring a new Muslim chaplain to the base where it is holding some 660 accused terror suspects, but he will not be allowed to come into contact with the “enemy combatants” being detained here without trial.

In September, the former Muslim chaplain, Captain James “Yousef” Yee, was arrested. He has been charged with disobeying an order – reportedly for smuggling classified information off the base.

Major General Mitchell LeClaire, second in command of the interrogation operation, said yesterday that the military has arranged for a replacement to be in Guantanamo Bay by early December.

However, while the new chaplain will continue Yee’s role of advising command staff on Islamic practices, he will minister only to Muslim soldiers and will not meet with detainees, as Yee did.

LeClaire added that it “was not [Yee’s] job” to counsel detainees. “It was never his job officially,” he said. “I can’t say it was with the approval of his commander.”

The news that the detainees will not have access to a replacement Muslim counselor comes amid growing international concern over their psychological condition.

Yesterday, the prison’s chief medical officer made a rare exception to the government’s practice of never discussing individual detainees to rebut a report about a deterioration in the health of David Hicks, an Australian enemy combatant.

Hicks’s case has aroused intense interest in his country that has threatened to damage relations with one of America’s closest allies. This week, an Australian newspaper reported that Hicks’s father received a letter from his son dated in September saying he was in isolation and losing weight. Hicks’s father said other details indicated his son was disoriented and depressed.

The report was in synch with an extraordinary public complaint by the International Committee of the Red Cross in late August. Breaking with its practice of only expressing concerns in private in order to preserve access to war prisoners, the Red Cross warned of “a worrying deterioration in the psychological health of a large number” of detainees after 18 months in captivity without means of legal recourse.

But Captain John Edmonson, who runs the detainees’ hospital, described Hicks’s health in more positive terms.

“His weight is down a few pounds from when he got here, but nothing significant,” he said. “In general, his health is very good . . . He is not depressed by any means.”

However, Edmonson also revealed that for the past month his hospital has been forcibly feeding another detainee, who launched a hunger strike. Edmonson said the detainee’s mental health is being evaluated, adding that about 110 detainees are on a mental-health watch list. About 25 on the list have been prescribed psychotropic medication while the rest have been given counseling. There have been 32 suicide attempts by 21 detainees – none successful.

Meanwhile, there are new signs that some detainees are not responding to the prison’s behavioral incentive system. It rewards detainees who cooperate with interrogators by letting them live in a “medium security” camp with group bunk houses and daily exercise.

As of July, only one detainee had lost privileges – for fighting. Now, at least six have been sent back to maximum security for reasons ranging from lying about their identity to the discovery of “contraband weapons.”

For example, the camp superintendent, Sergeant Major Anthony Mendez, said one detainee “accumulated plastic bags to make a rope or a weapon.”

In addition, while most of the detainees are observing the Muslim holy month of Ramadan by fasting during the daytime hours, some have shown signs of what may be a weakening faith.

Sergeant Donna Swenson is in charge of putting together mini-lunches of pita bread, bananas, and string cheese for those who choose not to observe. She said nine are not participating, and as many as 28 have broken fast.

Major Dan O’Dean, a Christian chaplain who has replaced Yee in handling requests for religious items for the detainees, said that two weeks ago one detainee identified himself as a Catholic and requested a meeting with the Catholic chaplain.

And Lieutenant Colonel Steve Feehan, head chaplain, said recent detainee requests for religious books have gone beyond Islam. “There have been requests for Bibles as well as for Korans,” he said.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2003/11/07/limits_put_on_new_muslim_chaplain/

Comment:

It was having contact with his muslim brothers which made Brother Yee realise what was actually happening i.e the violation of the prisoners human rights and his Islamic duty towards fellow muslims and loyalty and allegiance to Allah, which superceded his loyalty to America or any other nation. Therefore the new muslim imam will be kept away from seeing the true meaning of human rights as practiced by the Americans just in case he does his Ilsamic duty and helps his brothers in faith.

Terror suspects...The key word being 'suspect'...Suspects being treated like animals because they are 'assumed' to be terrorists...Innocent until proven guilty?

Then I guess Osama was 100% on the right path when he bombed the World Trade centers...He 'suspected' that America would attack Afghanistan and 'assumed' that all Americans would automatically become enemy combatants...And of course, if we are to follow America's rule of law, everyone who died in the WTC crashes, according to Osama (Provided he is the man behind this) were 'suspected' enemy combatants...

So I guess Osama's fears and 'suspicions' were well founded...America did attack Afghanistan, innocents were killed, so the 'suspected' people who died in WTC were not suspect at all...They were indeed enemy combatants for Osama...Justice was served...

Makes sense...

^^ Brother Lajawab - What you said is lajawab!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
^^ Brother Lajawab - What you said is lajawab!
[/QUOTE]

Good One Lajawab :biggthumb

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Terror suspects...The key word being 'suspect'...Suspects being treated like animals because they are 'assumed' to be terrorists...Innocent until proven guilty?

Then I guess Osama was 100% on the right path when he bombed the World Trade centers...He 'suspected' that America would attack Afghanistan and 'assumed' that all Americans would automatically become enemy combatants...And of course, if we are to follow America's rule of law, everyone who died in the WTC crashes, according to Osama (Provided he is the man behind this) were 'suspected' enemy combatants...

So I guess Osama's fears and 'suspicions' were well founded...America did attack Afghanistan, innocents were killed, so the 'suspected' people who died in WTC were not suspect at all...They were indeed enemy combatants for Osama...Justice was served...

Makes sense...
[/QUOTE]

Lawajab = Spinmaster

Perhaps your hero Osama might be concidered instiagator?

If he suspected that America would attack Afghanistan he surely brought that about by taking down the WTC and hiding in Afghanistan .

Knowing all the while the Afghan peoples code of behavior and selfishly sacraficed them to fight America because of his selfishness.

If Osama is moral... why doesn't he sacrafice his own self to his beliefs?

Come out of hiding and give himself up for the sake of his fellows and speak for himself in a courthouse?

And be judged by a jury?

Maybe skewed US foreign policy was the instigator; supporting puppet regimes in Saudi Arabia, Algeria etc, biased intervention in Palestinian by arming Israel to the teeth and turning a blind eye to their massacre of innocent women and children.

Maybe Bush your hero needs to give himself up, be caged like an animal and be judged by a jury.

Or if Bush was really moral he’d take himself and his cabal out with a grenade.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chota: *
Maybe skewed US foreign policy was the instigator; supporting puppet regimes in Saudi Arabia, Algeria etc, biased intervention in Palestinian by arming Israel to the teeth and turning a blind eye to their massacre of innocent women and children.

Maybe Bush your hero needs to give himself up, be caged like an animal and be judged by a jury.

Or if Bush was really moral he’d take himself and his cabal out with a grenade.
[/QUOTE]

Chota. I see you are also a spinmaster.

What of your closed eyes in the matter of suicide bombers killing Israeli children?

What of the fact that the entire Arab world wanted/wants Israel wiped off the face of the planet?

Verily Bush is not my hero. Neither is Osama, Arafat, Saddam or Sharon.

Surely you know in your heart that every single one of those men are guilty of bringing about the death of innocent people, either openly and preaching their agenda, or quietly by responding to one anothers poke.

Yet more spin from the Bush regime spin masters - "‘He is not guilty and he is not innocent’ " !!!

They have absolutely no case against him, it was all along a racist approach and now these idiots don’t even have the grace to apologise.
Hope he can take’em to the cleaners - unlikely under the Ashcroft clique.

"…Now the Guantánamo chaplain seemed to have confirmed the worst anti-Islamic prejudices, and imperilled his country at the same time. He was detained for months in a navy brig, spending a large proportion of the time in solitary confinement and shackled in leg-irons. Pentagon lawyers threatened the death penalty, which was unsurprising, because Yee’s case was deeply alarming. It still is, but for different reasons. Earlier this month, the army quietly dropped all criminal charges against him; yesterday, he launched a legal battle to clear his name entirely. The military has offered no evidence for its allegations that he was a spy or a traitor, no apology - and no explanation for one of the strangest and most troubling tales from the new American era of homeland security.

The prosecution was beginning to look desperate. “It was just a very shabby attack on Yee,” Solis says. "They said, ‘Hey, our case has turned to crap, but oh wait, we have this.’ …
Yee is not giving interviews, but Fidell told reporters his client had been “the victim of an incredible drive-by act of legal violence”. …
On the document-mishandling charges, Costello says, “He’s not guilty and he’s not innocent.”

“That’s beneath contempt as an official statement,” says Fidell. “It shows exactly the tin ear that has characterised the government’s actions in this case.” (Pressed on the matter, Costello subsequently concedes that Yee is indeed innocent until proven guilty.) …"

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Terror suspects...The key word being 'suspect'...Suspects being treated like animals because they are 'assumed' to be terrorists...Innocent until proven guilty?

Then I guess Osama was 100% on the right path when he bombed the World Trade centers...He 'suspected' that America would attack Afghanistan and 'assumed' that all Americans would automatically become enemy combatants...And of course, if we are to follow America's rule of law, everyone who died in the WTC crashes, according to Osama (Provided he is the man behind this) were 'suspected' enemy combatants...

So I guess Osama's fears and 'suspicions' were well founded...America did attack Afghanistan, innocents were killed, so the 'suspected' people who died in WTC were not suspect at all...They were indeed enemy combatants for Osama...Justice was served...

Makes sense...
[/QUOTE]

So get off your ass and Jihad it up rather than sit hear and talk about it.

Adding this here as the basic topic is being an American Muslim.
Obviously this is one example. GS Muslims living in USA may be able to add their own experiences, positive and negative.

Interesting that the victim actually stopped the “Border Patrol” officer and gave HIM the third degree (of sorts).

"Guilty of Looking Arab and Muslim in America

I am a Palestinian/Muslim/American who has been in living in the US, Michigan to be specific, since my arrival in 1969 at the age of8 . In Palestine I lived through the 1967 war and was forced to live in caves with my family as well as others from my village as we fled the Israeli onslaught and sought shelter in the ancient caves that surrounded our village. Fear, hunger, and thirst were our constant companion as we struggled to survive. In fact, if it wasn’t for my mother’s emphatic pleas and survival instincts, we, along with dozens of others, would have been blown to bits by an Israeli missile that was directed at the mouth of the cave which we had just evacuated mere moments before. As a 6 year old child, I was witness to death and suffering. I remember my mother yelling at me not to ‘look’ at we passed the bloated bodies of dead Palestinians decaying under the summer sun. The smell of decaying human flesh and the sight of the dead is something that I will never ever forget.
The Israeli conquest, occupation, and oppression of my homeland and its people had

The Israeli conquest, occupation, and oppression of my homeland and its people had been firmly seared into my conscience and memory. The purely racist attitudes of the Israelis towards the non-Jewish inhabitants of the Holy Land were always evident and on full display whenever I ventured back home to visit my family. Israel had institutionalized discrimination and racism. It was evident and affected every aspect of every day lives of

The Israeli conquest, occupation, and oppression of my homeland and its people had been firmly seared into my conscience and memory. The purely racist attitudes of the Israelis towards the non-Jewish inhabitants of the Holy Land were always evident and on full display whenever I ventured back home to visit my family. Israel had institutionalized discrimination and racism. It was evident and affected every aspect of every day lives of the non-Jewish residents of the Holy Land.

As I was merging with the traffic, I

merge on I- 75heading north to the Mackinac Bridge. As I was merging with the traffic, I noticed a cream colored vehicle with green stripes parked in the median. I checked my speed to make sure that I was not speeding and then noticed that the person inside was looking through high powered binoculars. We went pass this vehicle, but I noticed in my rearview mirror that he was coming across and was following behind us, though keeping a bit of a distance away from us. After about 5 minutes, he sped up and was directly behind me when he turned on his flashing lights.

I pulled over to the side of the road and was wondering why he was stopping me of all the people that were traveling on the freeway, some going quite a bit faster than I was. As the officer approached my window, I rolled it down and greeted him. I then noticed that he was not a police officer, but a ‘Border Patrol’ officer. He didn’t smile; he was ‘all business’ as he asked me the country of my citizenship. I replied ‘American’. ‘Really’, he said, ‘And where were you born’? ‘Jerusalem, Palestine’, I replied. He then went on to ask what I was ‘doing here’ and where I was headed. I explained to him that I was enjoying a drive with my family and that I was heading to no place particular, just seeing the sites of ‘my state’. He then asked me where I was coming from and a few more meaningless questions, then said I was free to go and walked away. I then noticed that my children looked visible shaken and scared. They were just staring at me.

As I was driving off, I started to get upset, especially when my youngest son, Omar, said to me, ‘Baba why didn’t you tell him we aren’t terrorists’. ‘Is it because we are Muslims’? I drove for about 4 miles, my son’s words still ringing in my ears, and then I pulled over and motioned for the Border Patrol officer to also pull over.

This time, I was the one with all of the questions. He came to my window and I proceeded to ask him just exactly why he had stopped me of all people that were driving on the freeway that day. He responded that it was because my vehicle’s back windows were tinted. I explained to him that it was ridiculous because all of the vehicles like mine came with factory tinting for the back windows. I even pointed this out to him as many of the vehicles that passed us had in fact the same type of tinting on their windows. He then said he could not tell how many people were in the vehicle. I asked him if that was a crime. He replied no. I then told him that I had noticed that he was in fact looking through high powered binoculars and could see directly inside my vehicle as we were headed straight at his vantage point when he first saw us. He admitted that he was looking at us through his binoculars. I then asked him if it wasn’t the fact that my wife was wearing a scarf on her head that made him suspicious. He denied this. I then asked him just exactly what was he ‘looking for’. He replied that they had received ‘unspecified terror threats’ and that he was looking for ‘visitors’. I then asked him if he was not in fact looking for people that he didn’t think ‘belong’ up here. He said yes. I then said to him if my ‘middle eastern’ looking features and the fact that my wife was wearing a scarf did not make us ‘out of place’ in ‘white people country’. By now he was getting quite uncomfortable with my questioning and was starting to ‘reach’ for excuses.

I asked him how old he was (30) and explained to him that I had been a resident of Michigan longer than he had been alive. I also explained to him that I had a couple of condos in the Traverse City area. Just then, our Israeli/Jewish friend started in on him. She told him that she was ‘an Israeli Jew’ traveling with her Palestinian/American Muslim friends and that this kind of behavior reminded her very much of the racism and discrimination that Palestinians face every single day in the Holy Land. He told us that he was ‘just doing his job’ and I told him that I understood this, BUT I wanted to know the criteria he had for racial profiling. He denied that he was racially profiling us, but made a lame attempt to excuse his behavior by trying to compare what he was doing to what I would do if I was the owner of a store and a ‘leather jacket wearing young man with ripped jeans and an earring happened to walk in my store’. Would I have not given him 'extra attention’?

After a few more moments, I ended my questioning by telling him that today, I was no longer proud of being an American citizen. In fact, I was ashamed of my country which treats me in the same manner that the Israeli government treats my people back home in the Holy land. I then told him, if I was in fact a terrorist (or fit the profile) would I be inviting unwanted attention to myself by having my scarf wearing wife with me, sitting in the front seat? Would I be driving around with my 3 children with me, windows rolled down? Would I have an older Israeli Jewish woman in the car with me, stopping numerous times to take pictures, for
coffee, and other snacks? Would I be driving my vehicle in broad daylight?
…"
http://aljazeerah.info/23o/Guilty%20of%20Looking%20Arab%20and%20Muslim%20in%20America%20By%20Mike%20Odetalla.htm

Does a Muslim really need a 'chaplain' to help him conduct his prayers, to seek guidance and all that? What's the outrage?

Yeah, the situation in Gitmo sucks, those guys shouldn't even be there even if they did do wrong.. but on this simple topic (looking at problems one at a time) I don't see such a major problem. The problem is that they are at Gitmo without legal representation, not that they are there without spiritual representation.

Anyway, on this specific policy again, the idiots are the military at large/it's processes, not necessarily the chaplains.

Perhaps the story you cut and pasted from Al-Jazeera should be put in context.

"Instead, said the top Bush official, a Washington State-based Customs agent and her partner deserved credit for saving LAX.

“It was because a very alert Customs agent named Diana Dean and her colleague sensed something about Ressam,” Rice explained.

"They saw that something was wrong. They tried to apprehend him. He tried to run. They then apprehended him, [then] found that there was bomb-making material and a map of Los Angeles in his car.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1113793/posts

More than likely nobody had a problem before 9/11. Why do Muslims have more problems after 9/11, gosh, that is hard to figure out. Might have something to do with that 1998 Fatwa, and a huge string of bombings, and almost perpetual audio tapes from OBL claiming that the US will be hit again. If a bunch of blonde Swedes had attacked, we would have some suspicions about Swedes.

Tell you what, we will do our part to realize that every Muslim is not a terrorist if you realize that there are some that are… I realize that you may get a funny look from Cops and Border Guards from time to time. Frankly, I am happy that they are alert, and taking their jobs seriously. Our apologies if you are offended at efforts to protect ourselves. Tell you what, rather than complaining to us, give the relatives in the Tribal areas of Pakistan a ring, and let them know that the actions of their “guests” are causing you a hassle…

Same old garbage.
:yawn:

I say to you, get off your a$$ and join your masters in iraq or afghanistan or chechnya and rid the world of the ‘terrorists’ you despise.
He says something, he has to be shipped off to khandahar, you could say whatever the hell you want and enjoy your stinking swimming pool backyard in houston somewhere.
Where the hell do you people come from. :rolleyes:

That backyard in houston is a result of american $$, the same one lajawab and you run after all your lives and once you get it, you talk of jihad against america.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
That backyard in houston is a result of american $$, the same one lajawab and you run after all your lives and once you get it, you talk of jihad against america.
[/QUOTE]

How do you know lajawab or his ancestors or mine were not here in north america before you came as a refugee (judging from your grammar) By the sentence structuring, it seems lajjo is probably born in USA, whatever he says is what his rights are.
If caucasian white american apple pie faces can oppose their own government in washington, who the hell are you to tell anyone not to?

Imdad, just cos you have spent your life chasing after Americans and the American dream, doesn't mean that everyone else is doing the same.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Tell you what, rather than complaining to us, give the relatives in the Tribal areas of Pakistan a ring, and let them know that the actions of their "guests" are causing you a hassle....
[/QUOTE]

If i dont have any relatives in the tribal areas of Pakistan, should I adopt someone there and then give them a ring?

P.S. can you tell your relatives in kansas who attacked me in 1990 that it was not very nice. Thank you

Fraudz,

No relatives in the FATAs? I'll bet someone here on a Pakistani web site has some relatives there!

You, my friend, do not deserve to be beaten. The US has plenty of jerks, and if I had relatives in Kansas I would find the guys who did it and give them an arse-whipping.

However, I have talked to my family, particularly my daughter and my friends about discussing issues with Muslims. Frankly the Americans that are here are the ones that meeting you on your turf to engage and enrage you!

My point is that people are people. They get attacked and they get protective, and distrustful. Because OBL's boys lived and worked in an open society, among us, it is natural to be more suspicious. It is not irrational. What do you think would happen to me if I was to live in Downtown Karachi, and openly wear a cross?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
What do you think would happen to me if I was to live in Downtown Karachi, and openly wear a cross?
[/QUOTE]

Original downtown karachi, saddar and tower area has a pretty large population of christians and have some beautiful churches there, the largest christian cemetery is in the area too. As are major church related schools like st josephs, where my sister went for her 11th and 12th garde, St. Patricks, the school where some of my cousins went, and the punks whose basketball team we routinely crushed. :) There is a St Paul's somewhere as well but it usually attracted chicoray types (chichora = cheapo)

P.S. I did not get beaten up, i was attacked, the fools did not realize that just across teh field where I was attacked was the Tau Kappa Epsilon house and my fraternity Phi Sig was just down the block, when the guys saw a fight going on, they ran and the guys who had attacked me fled like bats outta hell. ya just dunn mess wid em greeks