lets say ...just for the sake argument

[Ali_Syed]

Re: lets say ...just for the sake argument

NS on the other hand is deliberating. Jazabati firebrand people like Shireen mazari will take this party down the drain. Like Zaid Hamid she is always pandering to conspiracy theories! Sadly some might only remember him for his apologetic tendencies towards extremism.

Nawaz Sharif has played some master strokes during the past few months. Before elections PMLN had the same views on terrorism as PTI, after elections they decided to go with status quo particularly to save Punjab from the onslaught. They kept quiet and let Imran Khan do the work for them. PMLN read the public mood where as Imran Khan kept on advocating peace talks with militants. The terror attacks during the peace talks did not help either. Imran Khan should have kept himself away from something he had no say in. It seems after causing a lot of damage to PTI, IK has decided to stay on the sidelines now. Do I expect any operations from PMLN? I dont think so, status quo suits them. If the security situation in Punjab changes only then we could see some urgency from PMLN to tackle this issue.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: lets say …just for the sake argument

@Jolie

First of all PD, thank you very much for not calling me wajib ul qatal, wajib ul drone attack, wajib ul jail time and wajib ul Altaf Hussain proposed butchering. Maybe things are not so bad after all.

Secondly, excellent display of selective logic and wisdom. You have no problem when damaging accusations and sour, frustrated judgments are made against PTI supporters for having difference of opinion (while they do not differ in their aims with others), yourself have made such an ill informed and narrow minded assumption in your post, but you decided to appear upset over an impression I’d drawn? Every other person posting on this forum thinks the person next to them have no knowledge about the ground realities, some even say that people living on ground have no idea about the realities around them. So let’s not waste time on arguing who knows how much and how.

Thirdly, why get so insecure and baffled when PTI supporters question army and PMLN? Why shouldn’t they? When every other person tells you that Imran’s views are so unpleasant and disliked then I ask you, why PMLN and army’s narrative didn’t come on top? If one one political party has difference of views, why on earth other parties and army didn’t form a solid policies? Now it’s a separate issue that PMLN really doesn’t differ in their policies with PTI and it was APC that agreed to launch peace negotiations and support it. But of course people like you would choose to focus on Imran, make him a central point of everything, start and end every debate on him, cannot look beyond him, never stopped talking about him and have the audacity to ask why he’s relevant and so talked about? What kind of logic is that? Doesn’t it sound like hypocrisy?

Fourthly, you are right, hate is a strong word and sad to say, I have seen more than strong reaction and hostility against that man for having an opinion is that I see no reason why not to use that word. It is what it is. Don’t you find it disturbing that Imran’s is literally more attacked and condemned than Taliban? In which civilised country, the leader of second largest part can be referred to as ‘Taliban Khan’ for just offering a different approach to finish this war? Can you any imagine any European leader being termed Nazi a by bunch of journalists and they not just get away with but be praised for it? You find nothing wrong with such toxic judgements? What do you have to say about such poisnous culture of political intolerance where you can’t even hear a differing view without calling another person a TTP supporter or a kafir? Why isn’t there a middle ground? Why must be labelled either a kafir/foreign agent or TTP supporter by extremists from both ends? You see nothing wrong in that?

Fifthly, please properly explain how PTI supporters’ ‘ideological commitment is flawed’. According to you vast majority of them belong to urban middle class who are genuinely secular and equipped with social and economic mobility. These are the people who want free, fair and a well established welfare society. So how on earth anyone could imagine these people have any support to Taliban’s Shariyat (in fact most of them don’t even like Pakistan current constitution with heavy Islamic influence), just because they think selective operation is not a solution and full fledged nation wide operation is something army will not commit to? They are criminals because they are pacifists? They are wajib ul qatal because they think enemy must be defeated differently? They cannot be taken seriously because they think all previous policies have failed to bring peace? They are shameless and callous for asking a swift and bloodless end to this war, so they can finally concentrate on nation building? They are traitorous for always considering heavy civilian casualties and massive scale material destruction? They are narrow minded and ill informed for asking army update the nation on current situation and just make any commitment, any small promise to defeat the enemy and bring peace? I’m waiting for you to yell “NO NO NO NO…WRONG..” and accuse me of having dictatorial behavior, whatever that means.

P.S Great Britain wasn’t called Great for no reason. Thanks for your kind words. Freedom is a wonderful thing, peace is an absolute blessing, and I am so glad to have both in my country. I hope Pakistanis also see and experience these miracle one day too.

“wajib ul qatal, wajib ul drone attack, wajib ul jail time and wajib ul Altaf Hussain”...trying to impress me that you know urdu as well despite going to schools in UK all your life? you dont have to, i am already mesmerized by you!!!

---

“Thirdly, why get so insecure and baffled when PTI supporters question army and PMLN?”*** at least it is not me…i guess you forgot to spot this thread of mine on NS when you were doing some investigative work on me…

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/636248-ns-and-taliban.html

i have laid out point by point why NS sucks on taliban issue…now if rest of the forum is not willing to participate on this topic, what can i do? why didnt you pay attention to this thread?

look, all I am saying for a while is that the discussion on IK, NS and army in relation to taliban and terroism should be mutually exclusive …not mutually dependent. While they have an intertwined relationship on this topic, a mutually-dependent discussion unfortunately always ends up in labeling your least preferred party a scape goat.

Thoriee thandiee laassi peo!!! plzzzzzz

[phoenixdesi]

Re: lets say ...just for the sake argument

PD, My honest assessment of IK.

I grew up in Pakistan in the 80s watching and admiring people like Imran, Jahangir, Zaheer, Miandad, Hassan Sardar, Nazia & Zoheb, Moin Akhtar, Haseena Moin, Fifty Fifty, Ankahi, Tanhaiyan blah blah. Most people who support IK support him because he is a cricket hero and because they regard him as being more honest & straight forward than the rest.

However he is not politically savvy. It is partly arrogance. If he takes a position on something then he would rigidly defend it no matter how flawed or wrong his stance maybe. I have never understood IK's:

1. Flawed TTP stance. Even if there are many foreigners (Uzbeks, Chechens etc.) among them and even if many criminals and drug mafia now call themselves Taliban, there is no such thing as good taliban or bad taliban. They are all the same; bloody criminals. They are all challenging the writ of the state.

We as a people have to unite against this menace regardless of party affiliation and say enough is enough.

1. Association with JI. I could never support a party whose founder (Maudoodi) had such toxic views about Jinnah and creation of Pakistan. Two of my cousins witnessed first hand jamati badmaashi on university campus (UET, Lahore) in the 80s! Has IK forgotten all about how the jamati goons mishandled him?

I want IK to succeed but I am afraid he keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. His peace mantra looks so out of place now. He needs to let go of it. He has once again failed to read the public mood, the majority of whom now seem to be in favour of eliminating TTP monster once and for all. NS on the other hand is deliberating. Jazabati firebrand people like Shireen mazari will take this party down the drain. Like Zaid Hamid she is always pandering to conspiracy theories! Sadly some might only remember him for his apologetic tendencies towards extremism.

i agree GA....well said especially this....

"We as a people have to unite against this menace regardless of party affiliation and say enough is enough"

and Mazari is such a waste....

I have said this a year ago on this forum....and i repeat it...IK is on the wrong side of the history on Taliban issue and his politics will finish because of his wrong stand on this issue, as I see it...and it makes me sad..not too long i was a hardcore supporter of this guy and was standing right next to him with a great pride when he visited my busienss shcool in the NYC...........

[phoenixdesi]

Re: lets say …just for the sake argument

@Ali_Syed

Nawaz Sharif has played some master strokes during the past few months. Before elections PMLN had the same views on terrorism as PTI, after elections they decided to go with status quo particularly to save Punjab from the onslaught. They kept quiet and let Imran Khan do the work for them. PMLN read the public mood where as Imran Khan kept on advocating peace talks with militants. The terror attacks during the peace talks did not help either. Imran Khan should have kept himself away from something he had no say in. It seems after causing a lot of damage to PTI, IK has decided to stay on the sidelines now. Do I expect any operations from PMLN? I dont think so, status quo suits them. If the security situation in Punjab changes only then we could see some urgency from PMLN to tackle this issue.

yep agreed…i laid out same points about NS in this thread

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/636248-ns-and-taliban.html

second, he does not have political will to do so. He and his brother have decided that as long they win punjab decisively they can rule pakistan. Nawaz is scared to face the potential backlash in punjab if he orders an operation against taliban…lets put it this way..he does not want any bomb in anarkali but he is OK if qisa khawani bazar keeps getting bombed in peshawar.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: lets say …just for the sake argument

@phoenixdesi

yep agreed…i laid out same points about NS in this thread

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/636248-ns-and-taliban.html

second, he does not have political will to do so. He and his brother have decided that as long they win punjab decisively they can rule pakistan. Nawaz is scared to face the potential backlash in punjab if he orders an operation against taliban…lets put it this way..he does not want any bomb in anarkali but he is OK if qisa khawani bazar keeps getting bombed in peshawar.

The militants have used the statusquo in Punjab to spread their tentacles elsewhere. When the take control of neighboring areas they’ll return to Punjab, but then it would be impossible for the Sharif’s to protect the province. Anyways, who makes long term policies in Pakistan…

[Jolie]

Re: lets say …just for the sake argument

@phoenixdesi

“wajib ul qatal, wajib ul drone attack, wajib ul jail time and wajib ul Altaf Hussain”...trying to impress me that you know urdu as well despite going to schools in UK all your life? you dont have to, i am already mesmerized by you!!!

Aha! If you are looking to get impressed, then let me just make a proper impression - these are Arabic words not Urdu. Too bad, you’re too mesmerised to detect the lingering irony.

“Thirdly, why get so insecure and baffled when PTI supporters question army and PMLN?” at least it is not me…i guess you forgot to spot this thread of mine on NS when you were doing some investigative work on me…

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/636248-ns-and-taliban.html

i have laid out point by point why NS sucks on taliban issue…now if rest of the forum is not willing to participate on this topic, what can i do? why didnt you pay attention to this thread?

Now here’s a recently learned Urdu word that might describe the bolded scenario - Khushfehmiyaan. Sorry PD, I’m not that impressed nor mesmrised by you to do any investigation on you. Thanks for the link, I shall check out the thread.

look, all I am saying for a while is that the discussion on IK, NS and army in relation to taliban and terroism should be mutually exclusive …not mutually dependent. While they have an intertwined relationship on this topic, a mutually-dependent discussion unfortunately always ends up in labeling your least preferred party a scape goat.

…and that least preferred scape goat party is always PTI! You cannot say that relationship between Federal Government, Army and Provisional Government and political parties is intertwined and then expect the discussion to be mutually exclusive? It cannot work like this, and it it does, it’s just a case of weakest link being painted as a scapegoat and punching bag.

Thoriee thandiee laassi peo!!! plzzzzzz

Lassi makes me sleepy. Ever talked politics here after getting high on lassi?

[Jolie]

Re: lets say ...just for the sake argument

if IK can find alliance in Munawar Hassan of Jamat Islami ... why cant Jolie find alliance in poor PD!

(trust me i will be a better companion than Munawar Hassan!!!)

Oil and water can never mix, even if you contain them in one in urn and put in front of the world. Such is the case with 'unlikely alliance'.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: lets say …just for the sake argument

@Jolie

Aha! If you are looking to get impressed, then let me just make a proper impression - these are Arabic words not Urdu. Too bad, you’re too mesmerised to detect the lingering irony.

Now here’s a recently learned Urdu word that might describe the bolded scenario - Khushfehmiyaan. Sorry PD, I’m not that impressed nor mesmrised by you to do any investigation on you. Thanks for the link, I shall check out the thread.

Lassi makes me sleepy. Ever talked politics here after getting high on lassi?

oh Lord…if i am going to be lectured on urdu by Jolie..i better take retirement from gupshup!!!

i guess next time i type anyting in urdu, jolie will show up telling me that this is either turkish, arbaic, Sanskrit, or Persian!!! after all Urdu is amalgamation of these languages and rely on them as a source for technical and literary vocabulary!!!

[Jolie]

Re: lets say …just for the sake argument

@phoenixdesi

oh Lord…if i am going to be lectured on urdu by Jolie..i better take retirement from gupshup!!!

i guess next time i type anyting in urdu, jolie will show up telling me that this is either turkish, arbaic, Sanskrit, or Persian!!! after all Urdu is amalgamation of these languages and rely on them as a source for technical and literary vocabulary!!!

So you know it, excellent. Should’ve just guessed it before, shouldn’t ya?