Re: Leaving one's own faith - A journey away from the path
Last that I remember I am, Read all my posts you will find the answer.
Bus zara shaki mizaj ka hoon.
Re: Leaving one's own faith - A journey away from the path
worry not. because according to you guys it is God that has cast a veil over their hearts and they will not believe no matter what.
Re: Leaving one’s own faith - A journey away from the path
That is not true at all; because Quran is very specific that Allah:swt: puts veil on people who refuse to accept the truth after it is proven to them. This is due to their own free choice of going away.
Re: Leaving one’s own faith - A journey away from the path
why would ANYONE refuse to accept something as true if proven (assuming this person is out there SEARCHING for the truth and not looking for only material gains and a way to preserve their ego). If their reasoning does not accept your version of Truth then who is to blame? we arent robots or rote machines.
and why should Allah place a veil over their minds if they have made a choice to leave islam? thats like ensuring they will never come out of their ignorance. Ideally, it should be that Allah OPEN their minds to the truth and Bombard them with the truth and nothing but the truth.
Re: Leaving one's own faith - A journey away from the path
Why indeed. Yet, it seems that some people have an emotional stake in disbelief...show a miracle when asked for one, and be branded a magician or a trickster. It's how things were...and are...
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Ideally, it should be that Allah OPEN their minds to the truth and Bombard them with the truth and nothing but the truth.
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Those who reject are rejected...sounds nice and symmetrical.
Re: Leaving one’s own faith - A journey away from the path
Fact of the matter is, even if God showed Himself to humanity, those not willing to believe will not believe and those willing to believe will believe…
The case in point, the Jews were shown 7 incredible miracles of of God through Musa :as:…The plague, the parting of the seas, the first borns dead, the turning of the river into blood, the miracles through Musa :as: e.t.c…
What happened after a few days? In a couple of months in fact? The created a golden calf and started worshipping it…Even after being open witnesses to these miracles…
What happened when the Jews were shown miracles through Isa :as:? The same ones who witnesed these miracles turned against him and tried to kill him…
And there are countless and thousands of examples in which people have been shown miracles and proof of God, but they turned back…Is it the fault of God that even after witnessing such great events they turned back?
The Quran talks about such people thus:
**Surah Baqarah
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Alif-Lâm-Mîm. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur’ân and none but Allâh (Alone) knows their meanings.]
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This is the Book (the Qur’ân), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqûn [the pious believers of Islamic Monotheism who fear Allâh much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allâh much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].
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Who believe in the Ghaib [1] and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât),[2] and spend out of what We have provided for them *, spend on themselves, their parents, their children, their wives, etc., and also give charity to the poor and also in Allâh’s Cause - Jihâd].
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And who believe in (the Qur’ân and the Sunnah )[4] which has been sent down (revealed) to you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) and in that which was sent down before you [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell).
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They are on (true) guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful.
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Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.
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Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh’s Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.
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And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: “We believe in Allâh and the Last Day” while in fact they believe not.
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They (think to) deceive Allâh and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!
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In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allâh has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.
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And when it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “We are only peace-makers.”
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Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not.
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So, when someone says, ‘Oh, homosexuality is OK’ then he is following disbelief despite being shown clear signs…
In this regard, who is to be blamed? Allah :swt: for sending down the laws or you disregarding them?
You can’t argue with Allah :swt:…He has sent down His commands and let you free to follow them or disregard them…In the end, who will be to blame for the consequences of your actions?
Read the verses I quoted in detail…See what Allah :swt: is saying…He is telling you that this book contains all that He wishes you do…If you don’t, then there is none to blame but yourself…*
Re: Leaving one's own faith - A journey away from the path
you cant speak for everyone. there are people that gradually approached disbelief in religion while they started out very religious. and then there are those that were for example born christians and tried to learn more about islam but did not agree with the logic behind it. they may not have an emotional stake but just not agree with something.
again if i was a 100% sure that there exists a heaven where i will chill my entire life if i lived my life exactly the way islam prescribes and that that life will be way better than this one then why wouldnt i get to work right away?
its one thing to reject by saying "yeah yeah whatever. i dont care" and another by "hmmm this just doesnt make sense"
those who are rejected are rejected...it IS symmetrical... however, it looks like a line that can be used by anyone. christians, the police force, a fashion mag dictating women to dress a certain way. it ignores the fact that humans make decisions for different reasons. and reject and accept things by using the mind that God himself gave to them.
Re: Leaving one’s own faith - A journey away from the path
I dont need to see a river part to believe in God. Just the rare complexity of life is enough. The fact that every subject and topic and research has a vague gray area and limits is an indicator. the fact that anything man-made cannot even begin to imitate the perfection of nature.
Its religion that i have a problem with. And using religious scripture to stress the validity of religion is flawed.*
Re: Leaving one's own faith - A journey away from the path
Historically, the reference to veiled hearts does not apply to everyone, but those who exhibit a certain characteristic or doggedness in disbelief, to the extent of being hostile to belief at any cost.
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it ignores the fact that humans make decisions for different reasons. and reject and accept things by using the mind that God himself gave to them.
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The choice is ultimately theirs, but that does not in itself vindicate the choice. God rejecting those who reject God is hardly problematic for me...the choice is fundamentally a simple one no matter what convoluted reasoning one invokes for belief or disbelief. Nor is it really the same as dictates form a fashion mag...throwing God into the equation tends to make things a bit more profound...
As discussed ad nauseam elsewhere, "reason" is a vast overstatement in describing how people emote around this issue. But I contend the primary motivator for a person's belief or disbelief is emotional.
Re: Leaving one’s own faith - A journey away from the path
Of course you don’t need to see a river…Neither did those that did…However, they did disbelieve…They left solid proofs for something which was a gray area…
Now, for Muslims, there is no solid proof except the Quran, something which an uneducated man living in the times the Holy Prophet :saw: was incapable of producing…
There, the Ayahs I quoted tell you, that the believers are those that believe in the ghaib or hidden things…The Quran is specifically asking you to believe with absolute trust in the gray area…Based on proofs from the past…
However, as science progresses, the gray area is slowly being diminished and the miracles of the Quran are slowly manifesting themselves in the hearts and minds of people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike…
About such claims, the Quran states:
**Surah Fussilat
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Say: "Tell me, if it (the Qur’ân) is from Allâh, and you disbelieve in it? Who is more astray than one who is in opposition far away (from Allâh’s Right Path and His obedience).
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We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Qur’ân) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things?
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Verily they are in doubt concerning the Meeting with their Lord? (i.e. Resurrection after their death, and their return to their Lord). Verily! He it is Who is surrounding all things!
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Its religion that i have a problem with. And using religious scripture to stress the validity of religion is flawed.
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If you have a problem with religion then it is indeed your problem. You will not accept the teachings of the Creator because they conflict with your own sense of what’s right and wrong and you will not be the first one either…Billions have passed before you who had a problem with religion…
And quoting religious scripture in Islam is not a flawed concept…It is attesting and bringing to light its miracles…
When the Quran talks about free floating planets revolving in their fixed orbits, it is a miracle…And many non-believers have accepted Islam by accepting these miracles as true while many have been led away from it becasue of their own doubts…
About that the Quran states:
**Surah Baqarah:
- Verily, Allâh is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say: “What did Allâh intend by this parable?” By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fâsiqûn (the rebellious, disobedient to Allâh)**
**Surah Al-Ankabut
- And these similitudes We put forward for mankind; but none will understand them except those who have knowledge (of Allâh and His Signs).
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So, no matter how much proof, entire libraries may be placed before you proving the infallibility of the Quran according to science, you will always have doubt, a nagging sensation in the back of your mind that make you refute the Truth…It happened to me…
Heck, I was a firm believer that the Holy Prophet :saw: was a super genius and that he wrote the Quran himself 
…It was after reading it I realized no man could possibly have penned this…It is impossible, even for the greatest minds of our own time…It’s just not possible…
Although it may seem like a big cliche for you to see most guys go JazakAllah for sharing or MashAllah or this and that when we read verses of the Quran…Thing is, if we find something that is pretty amazing, we say it…
That same thing may be mundane to you…
Re: Leaving one’s own faith - A journey away from the path
Lajawab: Thanks for your time and such a beautiful replies 
Once, a guppy sent me a quote perhaps from Ibn-e-Kathir:rehm:
So, if all you say is not recognized, do not think it is in vain, for verily Allah:swt: puts cover on the hearts of those who want their hearts to be sealed themselves…
Re: Leaving one's own faith - A journey away from the path
Where is UTD with his theory about time machine and religion.
Re: Leaving one's own faith - A journey away from the path
Lajawab bhai always love your explanation,