Improved does not mean it has elminated all crimes, does it now? if you look at general law and order situation in the late 80’s and upto mid 90’s, there has been major improvement.
thank you, try again
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Improved does not mean it has elminated all crimes, does it now? if you look at general law and order situation in the late 80's and upto mid 90's, there has been major improvement.
thank you, try again
[/QUOTE]
so if improved only means no curfews and no khakis roaming the streets then yah ... it surely has improved a lot. Apart from that nothing much has improved ... car jacking, money extortion, usual killings among rival political & religious factions are still going on fairly at the convenience of the prepetrators while the strong men of Musharraf sit behind the strong walls of Qesre- Naaz or CM House, come out only to read to us the same statement that they borrowed from their predecessors
improved?? naa .... tough luck ..eh!
Vonti
although the types of crimes being commited are the same, the levels are much lower than they were in late 80's to mid 90's.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Vonti
although the types of crimes being commited are the same, the levels are much lower than they were in late 80's to mid 90's.
[/QUOTE]
A lower level doesn't mean government has put a curb to the crime rate. What you haven't noticed is the fact that perpetrators are free to strike at the time & place of their own choice. Thats what needs to be checked which the "elected" government has miserably failed to. Killing a firebrand like Azam Tariq could carry consequences that not even killing 20 ordinary folks on the road would have. And to put this incident in right context, it comes as a reaction to the killings of 5 shias just the other day. Now where were all those agencies & the henchmen of Musharraf all this time? .... perhaps busy celebrating the improved law & order situation??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Vonti: *
A lower level doesn't mean government has put a curb to the crime rate.
[/QUOTE]
yeah then the crime rates musthave dipped due to global warming. Hey thank god its not like it was during that wench BBs time.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Vonti: *
and in between all this killing & revenge killings, where exactly is that government and what exactly is it doing? We've seen this pattern of revenge strikes in the past and yet this incompetent bunch of lamers just set on their butt and now will come out with their usual rhetorics of nabbing the culprits within 48 hrs, dealing with hooligan with an iron fist blah blah blah
just a few days ago, in another thread there was someone making tall claims about how Musharraf government has improved the law & order situation, too bad the farce came to a blow at such an early age.
[/QUOTE]
And what exactly are the achievments of the elected governments as far as law & order is concerned? And who is the alternative for Musharraf, as we speak? The system that you so passionately hate will bring the same vaderas, and dacoits back into the power as before Musharraf. The democratic governments had 11 years to dismantle the religious extremists, but they did squat. I don't hear anyone criticising them. Its only the ohh-so-cruel dictator that gets the shaft who's only been in power for..what 4 years now.
This is not to say that the law & order situation isn't getting bad. But it sure as hell did improve in between, and recently has deteriorated. Its not easy to stop a determined group of men to kill someone, but the government should do better.
agree with fraudia for most part.
i know for a fact that azam tariq wasnt the only player of his league ... there are mullahs of similar calibre on both the teams ... i say its just the beginning ... hopefully this game of erdication of top-of-the-league hatred-specialist mullahs will bump off a great lot of potential hell dwellers.
as i type this response ... i see one post by CP .. well as far as my understanding about pakistani political setup goes, such matters never were nor are in governments hands ... law & order situation depends on the kind of allies a government has ... for example, MQM in power means no one can stop collection of Altaf Bhai Tax in karachi ...hope you catch my drift.
Plus, i cant rule out the possibility of government involvement in azam tariq murder ... if you look at the current international situation .. musharraf and jamali visiting US/Canada and Pakistan's emergece as a moderate islamic nation ... i think this one incident (?) cant hurt improving pakistan's image (if government sends out a message that it is cracking down religious killings by bringing down the real culprits).
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
yeah then the crime rates musthave dipped due to global warming.
[/QUOTE]
u missed the point [deliberately perhaps] when I said perpetrators are very much free to strike at their own convenience …. Put this killing in the right context .. it happens right under the nose of federal government in federal capital and it comes just days after the bus attack in Karachi … all this time musharraf government set on its butt promising to deal with the situation with an iron hand … now go blame global warming for this lame & inept peformance of ur loving General Julius Caesar.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
And what exactly are the achievments of the elected governments as far as law & order is concerned? And who is the alternative for Musharraf, as we speak? The system that you so passionately hate will bring the same vaderas, and dacoits back into the power as before Musharraf. The democratic governments had 11 years to dismantle the religious extremists, but they did squat. I don't hear anyone criticising them. Its only the ohh-so-cruel dictator that gets the shaft who's only been in power for..what 4 years now.
[/QUOTE]
11 years split among 4 weaker government continuously haunted by political juggernauts of ISI. Compare that to straight 4 yrs of 1 man show with no or lil opposition from any quarter – how is he proving to be the alternative so far? Hell if there’s been any iota of change for better in any field so far. And take this – at least in the past 11 yrs, there wasn’t any high profile killing like this right under the nose of federal government – what is even worse, the killers get to escape so easily as if going back home after a walk in the park. The IG police ( yet another retired napolean) has the gals to deny killing as any failure on part of his department. With this kinda attitude, you sit there and wish that this dictator and his cabal of goons would bring about any change for the better.
Sorry that your previous claims of law & order getting better under this dictator came to a sudden blow – so soon.
*Originally posted by Vonti: *
*u missed the point [deliberately perhaps] when I said perpetrators are very much free to strike at their own convenience …. *
I may have missed the point [because it was not clear perhaps], but although the many of the major perps are free, their ability to cause havoc has been significantly reduced and that shows in the difference in atleast Karachi these days vs back in late 80's-mid ninties when there was all sorts of ghunda gardee at all levels...gunfires and riots in colleges, MQM's ghunda gardee etc etc.
Yeah the perps should be caught, The govt should hold ppl like Benazir and altaf responsible for what the goosn of their parties have done over the years...
*Put this killing in the right context .. it happens right under the nose of federal government in federal capital and it comes just days after the bus attack in Karachi … *
aside from a totalitarian state, could you name some state where there is NO crime? gracias.
*all this time musharraf government set on its butt promising to deal with the situation with an iron hand … *
the fact that crime rates are down from their highs indicates that the govt has had some success. Obviosuly crime can not be eradicated 100% and there is still ways to go. but i measure success by progress, and there has been a lot of progress in recent years.
*now go blame global warming for this lame & inept peformance of ur loving General Julius Caesar. *
Heck, I am no musharraf bandwagon fan , but the fact of teh matter is conditions in Pakistan, or atleast karachi are better then they have been in decades. Only time that comes close was the intial year when Nawaz was in power.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Vonti: *
And take this – at least in the past 11 yrs, there wasn’t any high profile killing like this right under the nose of federal government – what is even worse, the killers get to escape so easily as if going back home after a walk in the park. .
[/QUOTE]
their was no high profile biggot in a position like azam tariq in the past. and the dynamics of the situation where other extremists are having theirown fights escalated in those 11 years, and numerous leaders of the lame bigot sides had been killed over the years.
Additionally, there were murders of some fairly well known figures, in govt and otherwise. case in point Hakeem Mohd saeed, care taker governer of Sindh, and mr Bhutto jr.
All I know is this..my cousins and friends in Karachi can drive late at night, go to a restaurant, go to schools and colleges without fear of the type and level of violence that had plagued inter colleges as well as Dow, SMC, KU, Dawood and NED back then.
I look back at my own family and see that alhumdulillah whereas we had cars snatched, peopel kidnapped for ransom, kidnap threats made against others, property damaged, extortion by MQM goons, time wasted due to college closings, fear and close calls in gun battles on college campuses, wide spread ethnic violence.. that all dipped sharply from where it was late 80's to mid ninites..and now.
You have an axe to grind against teh current govt, go ahead, the fact that a common person In Pakistan is safer from violent crime can not be disputed.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Vonti: *
11 years split among 4 weaker government continuously haunted by political juggernauts of ISI.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah. thats a good excuse to hide behind. [Political] life isn't going to be perfect, especially in Pakistan. If the "elected" Prime Ministers couldn't do their job then perhaps they shouldn't have run for it the second time?? If their hands were so tied, why did they want the 'kursi' so bad? Must be a renewed will to eradicate the sectarian violence? Uphold the judiciary, the press? Was it?
And have you ever, maybe, took time out from the cynical rut and realised the kind of challenges facing the government from Afghanistan? Who is to say it wasn't the remnants of taliban that crossed over and killed the shaias in quetta and then Karachi? You think your elected governments could've avoided this? Why could'nt they impove law & order in karachi: the hub of secterian violence in the 90's?
The shop where I buy meat from is from Karachi. He fled Karachi because of the violence. i asked him about the situation there, and he said its improved a little now, but it could stilll be better. I happen to give him a lot more credence than people who from their opinions based on the sound bytes received in their drawing rooms.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Vonti: *
Compare that to straight 4 yrs of 1 man show with no or lil opposition from any quarter – how is he proving to be the alternative so far? Hell if there’s been **any* iota of change for better in any field so far. And take this – at least in the past 11 yrs, there wasn’t any high profile killing like this right under the nose of federal government – what is even worse, the killers get to escape so easily as if going back home after a walk in the park. The IG police ( yet another retired napolean) has the gals to deny killing as any failure on part of his department. With this kinda attitude, you sit there and wish that this dictator and his cabal of goons would bring about any change for the better.
Sorry that your previous claims of law & order getting better under this dictator came to a sudden blow – so soon.
[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah. There wasn't any high profile killing in islamabad, just an odd embassey bombing here and there. Nothing serious, you know.
The killings do indicate the failure of intelligence agencies, but is this something new? Why only blame him? Why not talk about the people who left him this mess?
that’s very much still intact & happening as usual. Rival gang members killing is taking place as usual. Every time 2 factions of MQM clash, you’ve parts of city shut down, schools offices in those areas remain closed for days. MQM gunda gurdee and bhutta bazi is in full swing in Karachi till this date. You can’t just see it easily from this far 
U fudging the point again –its not about NO CRIMES but a high profile killing right in federal capital with an advance warning shot of bus attack in Karachi.
Where r u getting these facts and measure of progress from? There are no hard facts on the ground to validate your claims.
mere utterance!
Never before in Islamabad – the federal capital
[/quote]
Additionally, there were murders of some fairly well known figures, in govt and otherwise. case in point Hakeem Mohd saeed, care taker governer of Sindh, and mr Bhutto jr
[/quote]
I don’t think any of these cases happened in Islamabad and what is even worse is the fact that nobody took any heed from the earlier incident in Karachi and remained confined to issuing some rhetoric strong on words empty on action.
Back in 95, in the middle of worst situation in Karachi, there still were sheltered & high end areas where life would go on normal. So if your cousins & friends from a sheltered remote neighborhood can roam around late at nite, it doesn’t mean rest of city is just as peaceful. Come to the city and experience it for yourself instead of relying on your cousins’ nite out on the town story.
stats about car jacking going up http://www.dawn.com/2003/09/22/local2.htm
of course .. since the “fact” is drawn while sitting far away in the secured comforts of some US burbs, I wouldn’t waste my time nudging or fudging such facts – happy daydreaming.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
Yeah. thats a good excuse to hide behind. [Political] life isn't going to be perfect, especially in Pakistan. If the "elected" Prime Ministers couldn't do their job then perhaps they shouldn't have run for it the second time?? If their hands were so tied, why did they want the 'kursi' so bad? Must be a renewed will to eradicate the sectarian violence? Uphold the judiciary, the press? Was it?
[/quote]
Too bad - as usual, u duck behind nonsense ranting when faced with facts. 2+ yrs of some civilian government compared with 4 yrs of totalitarian run of show by Musharraf. And the result: nothing different, nothing improved, failed miserably. So going by ur own logic, this tinpot napolean should quit hanging on to the kursi. We know how much he’s upheld the judiciary, brought down the sectarian violence etc etc.
[quote]
And have you ever, maybe, took time out from the cynical rut and realised the kind of challenges facing the government from Afghanistan? Who is to say it wasn't the remnants of taliban that crossed over and killed the shaias in quetta and then Karachi?
[/quote]
well, if u r stretching over to taliban thugs into it, then I must have to ask u .. who was behind creating, training & supporting those fanatic thugs to begin with, our very own ISI.
And if u think taliban or whoever crossed over from the border, went on a killing rampage all the way from quetta to Karachi, then what exactly the musharraf government and its itelligence/law enforcement resources were doing all this time, busy chasing & bugging the phones of ARD, PPP, ABC and XYZ ???? speaks volumes about pathetic performance of ur strong man in shining armor!
[quote]
You think your elected governments could've avoided this? Why could'nt they impove law & order in karachi: the hub of secterian violence in the 90's?
[/quote]
elected governments couldn’t do it and Musharraf was getting itchy with their lame performance and hence jumped in from the skies to show us how to clean up and control the secterian violence, improve law & order … and after 4 yrs what we have? Un-abated sectarian attacks, deteriorating law & order & religious bigotry on the rise .. wow!! That’s an impressive performance from our tinpot savior!
[quote]
The killings do indicate the failure of intelligence agencies, but is this something new?
[/quote]
I thought that was the reason of ur tinpot napolean to jump in from skies – to change things for better. Now that he’s failed miserably … by ur own logic, he should go back and tries at least to be a good soldier & commander or … is he gonna stick with the kursi till one day his plane blows up over the skies of Bhalwalpur??
Like i said i give more credence to my butcher who actually has had to face violence in karachi. You say it didn’t improve, i say it did. I am backing my “nonsense” with proof. What are you backing your nonsense with?? There’s your democracy for you. Show your impartiality, and be as quick to give him credit for it, as you are to criticise him.
So? I must ask you..do you think that was a wrong move at the time? Do you know anyone else who could’ve done it? Its not like the elected governments opposed it. Did they? Do you have a better plan that would’ve secured our western borders? You think you know strategic issues better than Army General? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then please do us all a favor, and stop marginalizing the poor ISI for creating Taliban. It was done for the good of the country. Do you ever hear the Americans [Or any other country for that matter] blast CIA [or their respective intelligence agencies] for all its overt and covert operations?
Maybe. You gonna provide proof for the phone tapping?
Between the people behind Quetta tragedy were arrested. linky
Are you going to give credit to “strong man in shining armor” now? or are you going to just hold it back and think of another excuse to criticise him?
Between, try not to exeggerate things here. No one went on a killing spree from Quetta to Karachi. Please don’t mislead the readers.
Sure, law & order has gotten bad in recent months. But is it a conincidence that the crime rate increased under jamali’s government or has this been a trend under all democratic governments?
A little research before shooting your mouth off prevents one from eating their own words. link
It appears to me, the point your whole arguement is based on is flawed and uncorroborated. If anyone should resign, its Faisal Saleh Hayat. Not Musharraf. You don’t mention him anywhere. But you do mention some IG Police. Talk about being selective! Heck, I don’t hear the oppostion asking Musharraf to resign, and they seem to have taken it upon themselves to chant slogans for Musharraf’s ouster every chance they get. Who are you?
And what would that be? I think you failed to detect the sarcasm in my phrase where I mentioned ‘kursi’.
Going by your logic, [that he should leave, now that he’s failed, which as we’ve all seen is clearly not the case] Mr.Bush should’ve resigned after 9/11, Vajpayee after Gujrat, Benzair and Nawaz Sharif after..well too many incidents to type, and Putin after the inumerable attacks in and outside Chechnya. But the sad fact of life is, not single one of them contemplated it, let alone actually going through with it. So why exactly should Musharraf? And even if he does, then WHAT? Who do you see coming in and sweeping Pakistan clean of all that is evil?
At least Musharraf has better economic, and international relations to show up for. What did the Nawaz’s and benazir’s have? Washington pacts and lahore declarations, that didnt even mention kashmir?
His plane blows up over Bahwalpur or is sabotaged by an elected Prime Minister, be as it may, his death is not something in his hands. I am sure neither is yours. No point bringing it up. And Like i have said in other threads, as long as he’s improving the economy, he can stick to the kursi. i back him. Also since he attaches so much importance to economic well-being of the country, he can’t afford to have a bad law & order situation. So I am pretty sure things will improve, but I am also sure you won’t be there to apppreciate it. But thats ok, you know.
*Originally posted by Vonti: *
**that’s very much still intact & happening as usual. Rival gang members killing is taking place as usual. Every time 2 factions of MQM clash, you’ve parts of city shut down, schools offices in those areas remain closed for days. MQM gunda gurdee and bhutta bazi is in full swing in Karachi till this date. You can’t just see it easily from this far **
is it? does it compare to the levels of 1992? I really dont think so.
**U fudging the point again –its not about NO CRIMES but a high profile killing right in federal capital with an advance warning shot of bus attack in Karachi. **
hakeem mohammad saeed was cartaker governer of Sindh, that was a very high profile assassination as well.
**]Where r u getting these facts and measure of progress from? There are no hard facts on the ground to validate your claims. **
Niether are there to validate your claims.
mere utterance!
as if your words were divine truth.
**Never before in Islamabad – the federal capital **
but it happened in many other cities, now it go to Islamabad. There was an assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan way back, how would you extrapolate one high profile crime to conclude that overall crime situation is horrible? voodoo economics i had heard about..voodoo stats seem to be in play here.
**I don’t think any of these cases happened in Islamabad **
so..why is islamabad a point of contention..so it happened in Islamabad. if the jackass was in cheechonki mailaan maybe they would have blown his head off there..whats the point.
Back in 95, in the middle of worst situation in Karachi, there still were sheltered & high end areas where life would go on normal. So if your cousins & friends from a sheltered remote neighborhood can roam around late at nite, it doesn’t mean rest of city is just as peaceful. Come to the city and experience it for yourself instead of relying on your cousins’ nite out on the town story.
lemme see where do these people live
DHS
Shah Faisal Colony
FB area - several families
Gulshan
North nazimabad
Nazimabad
Malir
how many of these appear to be sheltered high end areas mon ami?
stats about car jacking going up http://www.dawn.com/2003/09/22/local2.htm
err it compares august 2003 to july 2003. how about comparing it to 1980s or early 90s. shabaash, jaldi say jao.
**of course .. since the “fact” is drawn while sitting far away in the secured comforts of some US burbs, I wouldn’t waste my time nudging or fudging such facts – happy daydreaming. **
of course you post lame stats showing an upswing between july and august and somehow extrapolate it that the levels per capita are higher than they were in the late 80’s and early 90s .. i would not want to waste my time arguing with such voodoo statistical extrapolation which makes no sense.
As I sit in secured comforts of some US burb, I have family..including my father who feels this obligation to give something back to Pakistan..living in Pakistan relating to me their perceptions, their experiences and their perspectives.
happy yip yapping
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Niether are there to validate your claims.
[/quote]
No bubba, pas si rapide … I do have some stats to back my claims, I don’t rely on cousins crime indicator to shoot some wild blanks. I’ll post ‘em in a separate post
[quote]
as if your words were divine truth
[/quote]
Some divine truth and some personal first hand experience, plus some crime stats from GOP site – mind that its not some my cousins can drive late at nite second hand “stats” :)
[quote]
but it happened in many other cities, now it go to Islamabad. There was an assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan way back, how would you extrapolate one high profile crime to conclude that overall crime situation is horrible? voodoo economics i had heard about..voodoo stats seem to be in play here.
[/quote]
Voodoo stats from DAWN site – better than my cousins can drive late at nite blank shots :)
[quote]
so..why is islamabad a point of contention..so it happened in Islamabad. if the jackass was in cheechonki mailaan maybe they would have blown his head off there..whats the point.
[/quote]
Well, point is …. 5 shias are killed in the biggest city & the industrial hub of Pakistan and just days later, you’ve an elected parliamentarian high profile religious leader [read bigot] killed in the federal capital. All this while poor musharraf is trying desperately to given an impression about Pakistan that religious extremism has no place and Pakistan is a safe country. La vie est dure – eh!
[quote]
lemme see where do these people live
DHS
Shah Faisal Colony
FB area - several families
Gulshan
North nazimabad
Nazimabad
Malir
how many of these appear to be sheltered high end areas mon ami?
[/quote]
Well, chum I live in one of those areas and didn’t get a bullet in my head or got my car snatched even back in ’95 so should I now claim it was very quiet & peaceful year? Please stick ur cousins crime indicator ….. well lets just say read the stats I’ll be posting below and eat the humble pie …. Huh?
bonne chance pour la prochaine fois :)
[quote]
of course you post lame stats showing an upswing between july and august and somehow extrapolate it that the levels per capita are higher than they were in the late 80's and early 90s .. i would not want to waste my time arguing with such voodoo statistical extrapolation which makes no sense.
[/quote]
well, my friend, point was simple, to show that all is not well and nothing much has improved even though ur cousins crime indicator tries to paint a rosy picture for u. U don’t like my lame stats that I pulled from Dawn site - fine, I am posting some stats from Pak gov. site from 1994 till present, try readin’ it and see how much law & order “improvement” ur tinpot savior has managed to brought to society.
on a parting note - pardonnez mon français
ok – here are the stats for the crime rate in Pakistan reported since 1994. They speak for themselves. I’ll snatch just 2 columns from there for a quick review.
Year All reported Murders
1994 320807 8303
1995 336124 9828
1996 330493 9062
1997 370350 9304
1998 431854 10246
1999 417846 9332
2000 388909 8906
2001 378301 9528
2002 399568 9396
as its obvious, law & order situation hasn’t been much different from what we have had in the preceeding years except for the years 1998 and 1999, but then 2002 shows a marked increase and comes 3rd in the last 9 years recorded. And from the goings of it with partial data available, 2003 seem to be all set to secure the 4th place for having highest crime rate. So much a reason for a tinpot napolean to drop in from the skies, vow to improve things up and after 4 yrs of lame shoddy performance, all he’s to offer is an increasing crime rate.
here
Oh where do I begin
First of all, was I not mentioning law and order situation from late 80’s to mid 90s? your stats cover 94 and 95, but hey that’s okay..I will just use this data. even though late 80’s to mid 90’s would have been great for comparison.
Secondly, this is raw data, total reported crimes, would the picture change if we look at it per thousand? That’s how crime rates are looked at..
So Musharraf takes office in oct 99.
now maybe my math skills are not quite up to par, but it does appear that the total number of reported crimes decreased quite significantly in 2000.
Now lets look at rates shall we
** since Musharraf took over:**
1999 to 2000 we had a 6.93% decrease in all crimes and 4.56% decrease in murders.
2000 to 2001 we had a 2.73% decrease in all crimes and 4.56% decrease in murders
2001 to 2002 we had a 5.62% increase in all crimes and 1.39% decrease in murders
lets compare that to some other periods shall we?
94-95 we had a growth in all crimes of 4.77% and murders a whopping 18.37%
95-96 we had a decrease in all crimes of 1.68% and 7.79% growthin murders
96-97 we had a growth in all crimes of 12.06% and murders grew by 2.06%
97-98 we had a growth in all crimes of 16.61% and murders grew at a whopping 10.12%
98-99 we saw a 3.24% decrease in all crimes and 8.92% decrease in murders
it appears murders have gone down steadily since musharraf took office and we had 2 years in a row under his govt which saw a decrease in all crimes. And these are raw numbers, not numbers per thousand, obviously we have a bigger population now than we had in 1994, which would mean 1000 crimes of 1994 would depict a worse law and order condition than 1000 crimes today.
The growth rate in number of crimes is self explanatory.. 18.37% jump in murders between 94 and 95, all crime growth of 12% between 96 and 97, and 10% growth in number of murders between 97 and 98.
Compare that to decrease in all crimes 2 years in a row and 3 years in a row where murders have gone down…compare that to the 94-98 period and there is growth in all crimes and murders except for decrease in total crimes of 1.68% between 95 and 96.
What this does not capture.
These are raw number of reported crimes, these are not per capita. Murders per thousand will paint an entirely different picture and show that overall crime has decreased much more.
The climate of fear that surrounded ppl in late 80’s and early 90’s is simply not there. Closures for schools and colleges due to riots, ethnic riots, like the pathan-mohajir riots, the gunning of mohajirs in hyderabad, that was a whole dif arena. Things ahve improved remarkably from that period.
Any more stats?
[here
P.S. Boo Ya](http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/fbs/statistics/social_statistics/crimes_type.pdf)
*Originally posted by Vonti: *
well lets just say read the stats I’ll be posting below and eat the humble pie …. Huh?
Well lets just say that I read the stats, showed ppl what they meant.. but left the humble pie for you... far more deserving to lick that platter.
I am posting some stats from Pak gov. site from 1994 till present, try readin’ it and see how much law & order “improvement” ur tinpot savior has managed to brought to society.
I Just Did..
'Nuff Said