Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

I think they were more exploiting those poor people. Helping other people doesn't give the person authority to misslead people, enforce their ideology on them, and practically exploit them on the basis of poverty.

Was it Islamic to take over the mosque, kidnap people, and make people hostages?

Seems like they have lost all the respect for a mosque or maybe didn't have to begin with...

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Alcahol, prostitution, have always existed in Pakistan and no one has ever had problem with it. Just like the Lal Mosque, which has been there relatively peaceful for the past 20 yrs, so has prostitution and alcahol existed in Pakistan even before it was created. Suddenly Prostitution is a big problem? Where the hell were the religous badmash 20 yrs ago?

Fashion shows? We are all Pakistanis, and no one other then you and a hand full of others have a problem with fashion shows.... Think about that, that means that since the liberal non fanatics outnumber you here, imagine how well you would fair in the rest of the country! Most people dont give a rat arse about fashion shows, the dont have any problem with cds or any of the other things that offend you... Heres a thought, why not just NOT go to fashion shows if you dont like them?

And enlighted moderation or any moderation is the need of the hour as more and more Pakistanis are turning to extremism... There is rising religous bigotry, hatered, intolerance... If we want to stem this tide, then we have to fight for moderation.. If suddenly the Masjid brigade wants to fight this moderation, the true moderate and tolerant form of Islam in Pakistan, then they will have to destroyed.

The only reason no one had any problem with them before is that no govt wanted to deal with religous fantics in the past... Now that the Musharaf govt has said Religious fanticsm is no longer to be tolerated, ofcourse your lal Badmash Msjid walas will come out on the streets.

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

I hope none of these Al-Qaeda bought-out scum is spared. Just the thought of these goons turning my city into Kabul makes me mad. Really, the government had no option but to stop these terrorists once and for all. I usually don't support the use of force but in this case, we have to realize that these guys are terrorists and there is no country in the world that would not use force against such people.

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Why was there not the same level of indignation when 700 soldiers were being killed in Wazisirtan by Lal masjid's cousins? Because there were no cameras there or because Islamabad is the capital and thus more important?

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

What's the very latest?

I watched Geo until 01:30, then I had to vacate TV to others. :(

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

30 min ago

Operation about to start, people cautioned to head to safety.

Source: AAJ

Apparently Talat Hussain of AAJ TV is somehow broadcasting from the building right beside Lal Masjid!

20 min ago

Firing has started, Talat Hussain is taking cover behind a pillar of the building he is in. The Loudspeakers have been silenced by the Commandos.

Source: AAJ

10 min ago

Government waiting outcome of "talks", in hopes of a resolution. Commandos waiting for order to conduct fullscale attack.

Source: AAJ

1 min ago

Additional Police has arrived in Islamabad, from other parts of Punjab.

Source: AAJ

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

...So has it started?

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Now what's happening?

I will try my own negotiations with concerned parties over access to the TV.

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

A backdown now will be humiliating for Pakistan.

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

LOL, good luck bro,

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Nope Im a Pakistani... I dont NEED the likes of you to tell me what I am...
Maybe its you that are not a Muslim, and everyone who supports this Badmashi are not Muslims...
I dont care if he is a descent man, descent men dont hide behind men and women...
He is a terrorist and he deserves to enter the paradise he so desires...
Sharia in the way that these people want is not the Sharia that we want..
Remember, this is the nation that Quaid built not Abdul Rashid Ghazi! The Quaid said clearly that Pakistan is not to be a thecratic state..
If you have a problem with that then you have a problem with Pakistan... If you dont like it then tough. But Pakistan is not a narrow minded Islamist state. We dont need anymore of this so called Islamic Law...

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Okay a case can be made that these Islamic scholars became saviors for these poor ppl and are making them do what deem is right- sort of emotional blackmail. I have been following the news from the time it broke and I think they are just reacting to Mushy's enlightened moderation and all that crap. Lusi bibi, you might not have been to Pakistan ever but I can tell you that majority of people there are against this modus ope***** of Mushy wherein he wants to turn Pakistan into a large Amsterdam(if you know what I mean). Care to tell me how these women should have reacted do all this? What/{which one} do you think is an ideal Islamic state.. If you are made head of Pakistan, what changes will you bring about vis-a-vis Islam and its implementation? Do you prefer theocracy or democracy- what do you lean against more?

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

AAJ TV correspondents have talked to Ghazi's secretary Abdul Qayyum. The Secretary has confirmed 8 deaths overnight due to "Sniper Fire" by the Army. Abdul Qayyum said that everytime one of the "students" would peak outside, a bullet would go straight into their heads within seconds!

Source: AAJ

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

From inside the Lal Badmash mosque… From the horses mouth so to speak…
The women are psycopaths… By the way they talk, I doubt anyone of them will be alive by the end of this.
Arrogant a holes, they titled it, “believer under siege.” So supposed;ly they are the only “believers” left in all of Pakistan and everyone else is a Kafir…
Believers Under Siege in Pakistan

When I first met Umma Aman this morning, she told me she was prepared to die for her god. This is the kind of rhetoric I’ve come to expect from students at Jamia Hafsa, the women’s seminary attached to Islamabad’s radical Lal Masjid, or Red Mosque. I wasn’t expecting an immediate demonstration of her faith. But over the course of a six-hour battle between students and Pakistani paramilitary forces that ended with several students dead and at least two police and one journalist caught in the crossfire, I learned that these seminarians do not take their religion lightly.

I came to Jamia Hafsa to interview its headmistress, Umma Hassan, for a story about Islam in Pakistan. Aman, a pretty 22-year-old student in her final year, was her translator. Before the interview started Aman and I chatted about her desire to live according to the teachings of Islam, and how angry she was that her government did not support her. For the past six months the clerics of the Red Mosque madrassah complex, which houses about 7,000 students, have openly defied the government, calling for the establishment of Islamic law throughout the country. Students and teachers from both the men’s and women’s schools have embarked on a vigilante anti-vice campaign in the capital, shutting down video and music shops for being un-Islamic. Twice now, the female students have abducted alleged prostitutes, saying that if the government doesn’t cleanse the capital of sin, they will. “A man goes to medical school and becomes a doctor,” says Aman. “We go to a madrassah, so we must practice Islam. But the government is not letting us. How can we just sit down and allow this to happen? We must act on God’s will, not our own desires.”

The interview started, and I asked Hassan about her goals for her students. “We all teach by example,” she answered. “When we live according to God’s law, we are successful, and others will emulate us.” I asked how far she would go to defend this principle. I never got an answer. I didn’t need one. Hassan looked out the window. Government Rangers, a kind of paramilitary force, were trying to cordon off the madrassah complex with razor wire. The male students were fighting them off. “Emergency!” she declared, and leapt to her feet. The teacher’s lounge, a room of brightly dressed women, was doused in black as students and teachers donned dark floor length robes and headscarves that showed only their eyes. Stout bamboo staves appeared out of nowhere. A stun gun flashed from beneath Hassan’s robe.

“Come on, we are going out to protest,” said Aman. I only recognized her by the glasses perched on the outside of her mask. I follow her outside the madrassah gate where a hundred or so black robed women chant in unison against Pakistan’s President Gen. Pervez Musharraf and against George W. Bush. A crack, a small explosion, and a cloud of acrid tear gas drifts our way, fronted by a pack of stampeding men. Apparently they had tried to occupy the neighboring Environment Ministry. I run back to the gate, having lost Aman in the sea of panicking black robes. More explosions, more tear gas. And the gunshots begin. First from the mosque, then in retaliation from the rangers. We are caught in a narrow corridor, bullets slicing through the thick smoke on either side of us. Another canister of tear gas rolls past my feet, spewing cottony clouds that claw at my eyes and tear at my lungs. Sweat, picking up gas particles clinging to my clothes, burns my skin. Someone from the second floor above the gate pours a bucket of water on us. Blissful reprieve, even if it lasts only a few seconds. I fight for breath, and I fight my instinct to breathe deeply. Eyes streaming, coughing, choking, spitting, we scrabble at the front door, battling to get through the narrow passageway, eight at a time, back into the madrassah, into safety.

Once inside the metal gate we suck lungfuls of air through wetted rags. Young girls pass bowls of salt. Eating salt lessens the effects of the tear gas, they say, with an air of practiced impatience. This is the second time the madrassah students have been tear-gassed; they know what to do. The afternoon call to prayer echoes through the halls, barely audible above the wails of wounded women. Still, there is comfort to be found in its bland predictability. Dozens of hands push cups of water on me, conscientious, even in the middle of mayhem, of the foreigner in their midst. Not a good time to ask if it has been purified, I decide.

The firing slows, and Hassan strides into the courtyard triumphant.“Good news,” she announces. “Our boys stole four guns from the rangers.” The vibe is electric. Aman finds me eventually. Her headscarf and robe are dripping with water. She is preparing to go back out to help her comrades. I realize that the head-to-toe shrouds have another purpose: sopping wet, they provide excellent protection against tear gas. Her eyes, though bloodshot, are exultant. “We are students, not fighters, but if the government pushes us to fight, so be it,” she says. “God will give us the power to win.” I ask if she is afraid. “We are not frightened,” she says. “We are never afraid. One day all lives will end, and if this is the case, then why not give it to Islam? If we give this life for our religion, we will have more blessings from our god.” Amma Adeem, a 20-year-old student in the same class, says she is willing to sell her life for paradise. “This is the house of Allah,” she says, meaning the madrassah, Islamabad, Pakistan and the world. “We must live by his laws. We don’t do this for ourselves, we do it for Islam.”

The steady rattle of gunfire shakes the metal gate of the madrassah. Snipers are perched on the roof of buildings surrounding the complex. Outside the male students are fighting with the Rangers. Inside, women fill buckets of water at the tap and pass them, fireman style, out the gate to the men. They hurl bamboo staves, broom handles and water bottles over the complex wall. The bottles return, empty, and the women fill them up again and toss them back. Aman disappears again, out the gate. “I will do everything in my power to protect my madrassah, I am ready to die for it,” she says. An hour later I find her again, pressing a wet rag to her streaming eyes. "I wanted to die, but my elders stopped me."Friends, crowding around, cluck in sympathy.

An explosion shakes the windows of one of the classrooms. A rumor that one of the male students has detonated a suicide bomb whips through the corridors. Last week, after the students abducted five Chinese masseuses for being prostitutes, President Musharraf announced that he was ready to storm the mosque. But then he said that suicide terrorists affiliated with al-Qaeda had infiltrated the men’s madrassah, and that going in would provoke a bloodbath, and that the media would blame him. One of the female students laughs at the idea of an al- Qaeda link. “We ourselves are willing to die for our school, we don’t need any outsiders to do it for us,” she says. (I later learn that the explosion came from the environmental ministry, which had been torched to the ground while I was inside the madrassah). The woman offers me lunch. When I point out that perhaps this isn’t the best time, considering the ongoing fighting, she just shrugs. “No,” she agrees. “It is not a good time. But you are our guest, and we have to look after your well being.”

Eventually I take advantage of a lull in the fighting to slip out the back of the complex to the street. Adeem leaves me at the gate. Eyes still blazing, she bids me farewell. "Tell them how angry we are,"she says. "Write in your story how willing we are to die for our cause."It doesn’t sound like rhetoric any more. It sounds like a promise.

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Keep them inside... Sad it has to come to this... But they had ample warning.

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

my angry brother, probably ranting against all this after the evening's drinks or so, but tell me for who did Quaid create this land called Pakistan? Have you forgotten, "Pakistan ka matlab kiya?.."? Bhaijaan, you are talking like this since you're in the west, but ask a common Pakistani who pays taxes and supports the economy and they'll tell you that they want to live in an Islamic society and not a country where brothels, pron video stores etc. operate khullam-khullah. Abdul Rashid Ghazi said on Geo that his supporters never torchured any1- they just gave them sahooliyat.. yaar, dont buy what media preaches.. media is owned largely by upper class elite liberal drunk Pakistanis... Quaid created Pakistan so that all muslims can practice their religion and not worry about being treated like a second class citizen.

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Sort of off-topic but how exactly are you watching AAJ TV in Toronto? I want to know! I really liked AAJ TV when I was in Pakistan last time around.

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

^^ I am talking to my cousin in Pakistan on MSN and he is watching AAJ TV and giving me live updates :)

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Yaar killing anyone is haraam as far as I know.. you are glorifying violence as it was terminator-2 or a video game or something.. sad day for all of us, sad day for Islam and sad day for humanity

Re: Breaking News: Paramilitary Police clash with Lal Mosque idiots!

Yes, capturing a library, how Islamic.

For heaven's sake, give your head a shake. Nowhere in Islam is it ok to kidnap women, men, children, police officers etc.