Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
3701

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Just remember participants of TuQ's show . They were brave people and they believe that their leader TuQ is working for Islam , same was with the girls and families of the girls in Lal Masjid . Young girls believe that the Mullas and Mullani are working for Islam . I am not one who is talking on knowledge from links and news . I have been meeting with the people of all sides and the people whom relation were killed in this all . Most of the girls belong to poor and less educated families like all other students of other madrissas .This madrissa was having good reputation and many people of twin cities helped this madrissa regularly . About statements of Buqa posh and his brother , All mullas gave such statements but generally these brothers were counted Sarkari Mulla , No body knew ,who promoted them to do this all but I am telling you since years that who is their patron now ., I am very sure that they were trapped . Just look at the acts for which they are given the status of terrorists now . Danda bardar girls went to some video shops and threatened them . They went to a Dhanday wali and harassed her . We saw the girls on Tv with their dandas .
Any thing else which you know about their terrorist activities before the final show .

3702

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Please read above, I made those comments about the posts above.

The morality and humanity champions have not come out to show remorse rather they feel it was justified that so many lives were lost, which could have easily been avoided.

I think we are not talking on same wavelength.

All I have said that there should be a clear distinction between real culprits and misguided followers. This fact has been ignored all too often.

Any life including the soldiers could ave avoided if there was a good will gesture by those who ultimately were in charge.

Moreover, what was the need for any ultimatum at all? They were surrounded already in there.

What was the need for the rush at all? How long do you think those people would stay there? Month, two months, three months?

Do you get my point sir?

Source please.

3703

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Can’t you see the difference between people behind TUQ and lal-Masjid goons? Let me explain:

People behind TUQ: was demanding government to implement constitution of Pakistan (they were not doing anything unlawful but was asking government to do what law demands) … that is, to make sure people who would contest election fulfills the requirements mentioned in article 62 and 63 of constitution for the post. They were not threatening any civilians or wanting them to follow what they believe. They were not threatening shop-keepers or burning shops or have taken up arms to challenge government writ. TUQ followers did not kidnapped and harassed anyone. TUQ followers did not occupy any government building and wanting government to give that building to them, neither they occupied private plots. They were not land grabbers who were fighting government so that government should not implement laws on them.

Lal-Masjid Rascals: They were demanding that government interfere with people’s life by enforcing laws they believe to be Islamic and not only that, but they were threatening people around them, burning shops and harassing people they did not liked according to their beliefs regardless of what Pakistani laws say … and they were doing all this without any legal status. These people openly took up arms and was threatening government writ. These people occupied many private and government plots to extend the Mosque and their Madrasa, and later occupied government buildings demanding that those building should be given to them. They were also asking government that not to implement laws on illegally occupied lands where they have raised building and declared that as Madrasa or Mosque.

[quote]
I am not one who is talking on knowledge from links and news. I have been meeting with the people of all sides and the people whom relation were killed in this all. Most of the girls belong to poor and less educated families like all other students of other madrissas .This madrissa was having good reputation and many people of twin cities helped this madrissa regularly.
[/quote]

Hmmm … I know you are very resourceful and know people from both side. Now, be innovative too. Take the case to court (or make family of those killed take the case to court) demanding that court should investigate and force government to acknowledge innocent girls got killed, and then force government to pay compensation to the family of killed girls. I am sure if you would do that then we all would know as it would be in news and you will get ‘sawab’ too, as you will be helping family of victims who you know. But if you are not going to do that or could not do that (because what you mentioned is just BS), then please be courageous to accept that all what you mentioned are propaganda full of lies. :)

[quote]
About statements of Buqa posh and his brother , All mullas gave such statements but generally these brothers were counted Sarkari Mulla, Nobody knew ,who promoted them to do this all but I am telling you since years that who is their patron now ., I am very sure that they were trapped . Just look at the acts for which they are given the status of terrorists now. Danda bardar girls went to some video shops and threatened them. They went to a Dhanday wali and harassed her. We saw the girls on Tv with their dandas.
Any thing else which you know about their terrorist activities before the final show.
[/quote]

Trapped? :) Such a big bearded Mullah who brought life in Islamabad to standstill for months got trapped? No chance … All what these thugs did were intentional and wilfully. These thugs wanted to bring the government to their knees :)

Well, they harassed video shops and god knows how many other shops … but is that fine? Entering someone house and accuse them of dhanda then kidnap them, harass them and force them to make confessions, is that fine?

Let see: If I go to my local ‘Ice-cream’ shop along with burqa-posh danda bardar fitna-brigade and harass them to close the shop because I do not like Ice-cream, consider that it is biddah to eat or sell Ice-cream as Prophet (SAW) as far as I know never ate or sold ice-cream neither any Sahaba did, then would that be fine and government should not stop me, or do anything about it?

How about me along with my Burqa-posh danda bardar fitna-brigade enters house of a ‘Jiala’ and kidnap him/her on charges that he/she is corrupt, then force him/her to confess that he/she is corrupt, then would that be fine?

If I raise a Burqa-posh danda bardar fitna-brigade and occupy local library, attack local school, burn government buildings, challenge and beat police, even kill some civilians and fire on army killing their officers … and all I do in capital city and make life in capital city stand still … then is that fine?

And after doing all that, rather much more, if government lets me do all fitna and mayhem for more than 6 months just warning me to stop all this fitna … and after 6 months when government decided to force me to surrender then I issue threat to government that I have suicide bombers and show that I have many men armed with AK-47 … and explicitly tell government that I do not want to surrender nor stop my fitna, then is it fine that government do not act and let me carry out with my fitna?

And if government uses army to act, making most of my burqa-posh fitna-brigade to surrender leaving hard-core armed fitna-bridage with me, then my staunch fitna-brigade starts armed conflict with army, resulting in shoot-out killing some army men and later army kills most of my staunch fitna-brigade amongst whom many wanted terrorists were also present (around 80 killed and around 50 surrendered) … and in the end … if army succeeds in eliminating my outlaw fitna-brigade relieving people from fitna and bringing law-and-order in capital, then would that be wrong?

I think what government did was right though they acted too leniently and too late.

3704

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

I got your point and I am really amazed reading your post. :)

Well, the way you are writing I believe you would even accuse Ali (RA) who fought Kharjees killing all of them except few who fled.

Here is story of battle Naharwan: Initially 12000 men started fitna in around Kufa, doing takfeer, harassing and killing people in order to impose their version of Islam (as what present day Kharjees are doing and Lal-Masjid goons were doing).

Ali (RA) turned towards them. After talk, most kharjees left their deviant belief. Some even joined Ali (RA) force. Still, 1800 hard-core stayed in their Kharjee belief under the command of ‘Abdullah bin Wahab’ and decided to fight Ali (RA).

[It is same what happened at lal-Masjid, where most danda-bardar brigade surrendered, though around 130 hard-core stayed adamant with young devil to fight Pakistan army]

Result: Kharjee fought Ali (RA) and all 1800 got killed except 9 who fled to spread their fitna.

[Just like lal-Masjid event, where around 80 got killed and around 50 surrendered]

Now, you can say (the way you are saying about hard-core terrorists who got killed at lal-masjid operation) that Ali (RA) should have found another way to save life of these Kharjees instead of engaging them in fight where Ali (RA) army killed around 1800 Khajrees.

Right?

3705

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Cases are already in courts and a judicial commission is working . All statements recorded so far are pointing to Mush only .

3706

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

If cases are in court then let see the outcome.

Anyhow, can you please give reference of any news report showing the names of people, and relatives of girls who started the case?

As for fingers pointing towards Mush ... then it must be similar way the fingers pointing towards Z A Bhutto regarding 10s of thousand people he killed in Baluchistan during his military operation that started in 1973 and ended when Zia came to power ... right?

[At least with lal-Masjid operation, it is obvious that the thugs of lal-Masjid started fitna and challenged government writ and government only reacted to establish writ of government and save citizens from Lal-Masjid fitna and it had nothing to do with politics ... ... ... But as far as Baluchistan is concerned, they did not challenged government or started fitna, but it was 'Bhutto the murderer' who challenged government Baluchs elected and started Fitna in Baluchistan with military operation just for political reasons ... and we have to bring in military operation of murderer Nawaz and Murderer Benazir in Karachi who again killed 10s of thousand innocent people of karachi for no reason other then these murderer wanting to strengthen their politics].

3707

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Huh?

So now you decided to drift the discussion further instead of talking to the point or point by point.

There are people who supported Lal Masjid people saying that they were like Imam Hussain AS and Hasan AS fighting against Yazeed.

But what is the point of this back and forth giving examples from history???
Both yours and those people examples can be wrong.

Get back to the topic and bring sources or evidences in your support please.

3708

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

More I read you, more you amaze me. In this post you are trying to make Thugs of lal-masjid similar to Imam Hussain (AS), tomorrow you will make them similar to Prophet (SAW), and day after tomorrow who knows, you might call them incarnate of God (maybe Jesus, Krishna or Ram) … I do not know where you are coming from.

I did not drift from the issue neither I gave example that was irrelevant (as what you gave). If you had read my post carefully, you would have seen that I gave example point to point.

Anyhow, since you raised the issue comparing thugs of Lal-Masjid with Imam Hussain (AS), it is important that one should clear the matter so that there could be no ambiguity left.

So, let compare lal-Masjid thugs … Kharjees of Naharwan … and stand that Imam Hussain (AS) took.

To start with, I have to say this clearly that … No Muslim could even think of any Islam other than Imam Hussain (AS) verstion of Islam, as there could be no Islam other than Imam Hussain (AS) version of Islam, because doubting Imam Hussain (AS) version of Islam is doubting Prophet (SAW), because if Prophet (SAW) could not teach Islam to his own children then what Islam he could have taught to others?

So, anyone doubting Imam HUssain (AS) version of Islam or whatever Imam Hussain (AS) stood for, could be Munafiq, Kharjee, Kafir but could not be Muslim for sure.

Anyhow, let see the difference between Imam Hussain (AS) compared to Kharjees and Lal-Masjid goons.

1 A: Imam Hussain (AS) was not harassing (nor ever harassed) civilians or killing people who they (AS) thought were not following their version of Islam.

B: Both Kharjees and Lal-Masjid thugs were/are harassing and killing people who they thought were/are not following their version of Islam.

2 A: Even though Yazid and his followers were not following Imam Hissain (AS) version of Islam and thus were Munafiqs at best, Imam Hussain did not do Takfeer on them just because Takfeer itself is worse than Kufr and Imam Hussain (AS) version of Islam believes that Takfeer takes a person out of Islam (that their grand-father taught them), hence no takfeer on his part nor any Muslim ever do takfeer.

B: Both Kharjees and Lal-Masjid thugs are Takfeeries.

3 A: Imam Hussain never raised sword (or tried to use force) to make anyone follow their version of Islam as according to Imam Hussain (AS) version of Islam, enforcing others towards Islam is against Islam.

[Obviously, as Islam belongs to Allah and we follow Islam letting others follow what they got out of Islam, but one can never enforce or impose Islam on others]

B: Both Kharjees and Lal-Masjid thugs tried (and people like them still try) to impose their version of Islam on others using force.

4 A: Imam Hussain (AS) never created fitna and fisad anywhere (fitna and fisad is terrorism, harassment, fear, persecution, killing of innocent, enforcement of will using force, and mayhem that people create over others).

B: Both Kharjees and Lal-Masjid thugs were creating fitna and fisad at places they were operating.

5 A: Imam Hussain (AS) were not land grabbers … and what I read, before camping at Karbela he bought that land too.

B: Lal Masjid thugs were land grabbers (who are thieves and opportunists).

Actually, I can write 10s of things that can show differences between Imam Hussain (AS) compared to Kharjees and Lal-Masjid Thugs, while we find almost all similarities between Kharjees and Lal-Masjid thugs.

So, we can compare lal-masjid thugs with Kharjees with no problem. Anyhow, no Muslim could even dare to compare these Lal-Masjid thugs with Imam Hussain (AS).

Another thing that is important to remember is that, most Kharjees got killed because they were adamant about their deviant believes. Same is true with Lal-Masjid thugs that they were adamant about their devient believes and thus got killed for that.

Actually, before battle against Kharjees, Ali (RA) clearly said that these people are so adamant about their deviant beliefs that they would give up their life but would not surrender and that is what happened. Same can be said about Lal-Masjid thugs, that those 130 hard-core who was left in Mosques, they were so adamant about their deviant believes that they preferred to get killed but not surrender. That means, there could have been no other better result than what happened.

Note: Imam Hussain (AS) was not willing to fight at all. Only thing he (AS) insisted was that he would not give his allegiance to Yazid, a Munafiq who was occupying seat of power (so, his standing was standing on his principle that was Islam, and was nothing to do with others what they were following).

As for these Lal-Masjid thugs and Kharjees, problem of both is not about giving their allegiance to anyone (or anything to do with them ... or their self), but their agenda was/is to create terror, Fitna and Fisad on earth, killing innocent (men, women and children) and terrorising all who do not agree with them ... until time they succeed in imposing their will and deviant Islam over others.

3709

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

All of your points are useless when I already said both examples can be wrong.

There were no likes of Hazrat Ali nor Imam Hussain/Hasan AS in Pakistan in 2007. Hence any of yours and others examples are wrong.

Read my friend before writing long posts and wasting your time.

Now please answer the question if you can and provide the source.

3710

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

I do not know what you are asking that I should answer. I gave you answer and that is, I can see a lot of similarities with Lal-Masjid goons and Kharjees.

1: Terrorising and killing civilians after judging them according to their version of Islam.
2: Doing Takfeer (it is on record that Lal-Masjid thugs use to do takfeer).
3: creating fitna and fisad at place of their influence.
4: Staunch believers of their deviant beliefs.
5: Adamant when fighting for their believes, that is to never surrender but give their lives ... even willing to do suicide for their believes.
6: Taking Quranic verses on its face value and not thinking anything rather keeping their mind shut.
7: Law of the land violators.

8: And most important ... Ali (RA) declaration that they would all get killed but would not give up ... same happened with Lal-Masjid thugs ... most of them got killed (though Mullah Burqa did show some sense and tried to save his life).

All above points I mentioned ... apply to Kharjees ... and surprisingly apply to thugs of Lal-Masjid too. So, result was same what I mentioned in point 8, that Lal-Masjid thugs fought against odds and most who fought did not surrendered but died (around 80 died and only around 50 surrendered).

3711

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

I only asked about the post of yours where you talked about shabab, kabab, sharab.

3712

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

To answer this question I will have to talk a lot about ‘Theory of relativity’ where relativity is about this world and world after death, so I am making a ‘Pass’ to this question.:pcg:

3713

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Got it. :slight_smile:

Hence the commission should find out the facts and truth.

3714

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Aik ghatia burqa posh doosray ghati kay khilaf
Petition filed against Musharraf in SC

3715

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

3716

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

The story is not over .
Madrissa girls appeared again today . Attacked on posters of Mush and his candidate Dr Amjad of NA 49 Islamabad . Those were 8 in number .
Jamia Hafsa students vent anger on Musharraf posters

3717

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

[TABLE]

SC orders Lal Masjid report to be made public

                                           ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court of Pakistan on Thursday rejected a petition to keep the Lal Masjid  ...                           
                 
               
               [TABLE]

[TABLE="width: 96%"]

	                           [TABLE]
                           [TR]

                               [TD="bgcolor: #f7f7f7, colspan: 3, align: left"]                                       [Former PM Aziz records testimony to Lal Masjid commission](http://www.geo.tv/GeoDetail.aspx?ID=92816)                                       [http://www.geo.tv/images/spacer.gif](http://videos.geo.tv/VideoGallery.aspx?ID=0)                                   
                           
                       
                   [/TD]
[/TR]

	                           [TABLE]
                           [TR]

                               [TD="bgcolor: #f7f7f7, colspan: 3, align: left"]                                       [Musharraf, Aziz served Lal Masjid summons](http://www.geo.tv/GeoDetail.aspx?ID=89260)                                       [http://www.geo.tv/images/spacer.gif](http://videos.geo.tv/VideoGallery.aspx?ID=0)                                   
                           
                       
                   [/TD]
[/TR]

	                           [TABLE]
                           [TR]

                               [TD="bgcolor: #f7f7f7, colspan: 3, align: left"]                                       [Written order issued for Lal Masjid comm](http://www.geo.tv/GeoDetail.aspx?ID=78664)                                       [http://www.geo.tv/images/spacer.gif](http://videos.geo.tv/VideoGallery.aspx?ID=0)

[/TD]
[/TR]

3718

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

**Bdalta hay rang aasman kaisay kaisay

Musharraf the traitor is in trouble and this third rate Mulla is enjoying protocol .

He will be thank full to Misl e Kuffar , Munkareen e Shareat , Murtaden , Bhatta khor , Aghwakar, Killers , terrorists Taliban

**اپنے بھائی اور ماں کو مرنے کیلئے چھوڑ کر برقع اوڑھ کر فرار ہونے کی کوشش کرنے والے اور لینڈ مافیا کی ناجائز کمائی پر پلنے والے ملا کفن فروش کے نخرے

https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDmoM1nBydGNLxE&w=377&h=197&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.samaa.tv%2Furdu%2FNewsPictures%2F20142810473.jpg&cfs=1&sx=0&sy=0&sw=768&sh=401سمیع الحق وشاہ عبدالعریزکی روٹھےمولاناعبدالعزیزکومنانےکی کوشش | SAMAA TV](http://www.samaa.tv/urdu/urdu-news-2-8-2014-28734-1.html)

3719

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

^^^ Pasha Saheb: Waisay koyie khabar ‘Alam-e-Barzakh’ say uss traitor kee jiss nay East Pakistan gunwa diay aur phir qatal kay jurm may phansee kha kar qabar may chala giya?

As for Mullah Burka … he is talking a lot these days about Islam and Sharia. I am surprised that no TV Anchor has asked, but someone should ask Mullah Burka that since Taliban and their leadership is responsible of many murders of innocent Pakistanis, is it not right that these Taliban leaders and their killers surrender straightaway before they talk about Shariah, and government should hang them until death according to Shariah, as punishment in Shariah is death for murderers and conspirators. ...

Further, mullah Burka should be asked that since Lal-masjid created fitna, fasad and also people under his guidance killed many civilians and force personals, is it not right that to comply with Shariat laws, he (Mullah Burka) should be hanged till death?

3720

Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)

Here you go again. Drag ZAB in every thread/topic eh!