Re: Khilafat-need to know more
No i am asking was that mainstream muslims stance or not? what was their stance our khilafat.
PS: Due to ramadan i will be bit late in responding to detailed posts although i will be reading all of them.
That was the point of that post. The "mainstream Muslims" stance on khilafat used to change with who had power at the time.
First the stance was that khalifah is to be from Quraysh, but then Ottomans came and that stance changed 360 degrees.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
........So concept of khilaafah is based upon solid foundation of the quran and not on any person......
wow.. a looooong post and no reference?
Why is no one addressing the questions raised in OP without making spaghetti out of the whole thing.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
I've read many years ago a book written by hizbutahrir on the method of re-establishing the khilafah, but it made many references to there being the need to for a leader but no reference to how one is to be appointed with the practical complexities of today ... Their book made the suggestion that it needs to be done through a coup ... Or presumably as in the case of the ISIS who literally took over territories through their military campaign ... Although it was a suspect cakewalk ... They were allowed to move in and re-ignite the flame of a threat ... In my opinion.
The matter of legitimacy was never handled adequately ... In any reading material that I have read from these types of books ... "Islamists" as the media tends to call them resemble a Muslim form of Zionism ... They are impatient with waiting for the ummah to be granted a unified platform resulting from our improvement and have imposed a stick building to mimic an Islamic state instead ... Stick houses fall ... They did so in Afghanistan and Egypt and will do so again.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
wow.. a looooong post and no reference?
Why is no one addressing the questions raised in OP without making spaghetti out of the whole thing.
Dear kakaballi sb, one's first point of reference is one's own brain and senses and if one is a thinking person then one is. If one is then the second point of reference is the world all around oneself and things in it, an environment within which one is born and interacts therefore gains a life experience. This is one's self awareness and one's awareness about real world realities. After that one's third reference point is revelation of God through his messengers in form of scriptures if one can make sense of them with help of knowledge which one should already have through one's life experiences. All this involves a lot of hard work on part of any individual over a very short or very long period of time depending upon where human society is at any moment in time of which one is a member. It is because if a human society is based upon learning and doing things then time is cut short for learning but takes ages if one is almost totally on one's own because one is then swimming against the direction of the flow or up stream. If a society is already going in the right direction then it cuts down effort of individual otherwise it puts individual under much greater pressure.
Once one has reached that stage of knowledge then one knows it oneself where one stands and one is able to explain things for helping others. It is then common knowledge that binds such people together on basis of what they want out of life in light of what they have come to know and in which direction they want human world to move.
This is why knowledgeable people are not expected to have harmful and destructive ambitions and desires against others so they are not expected to have harmful and destructive mindsets, attitudes and behaviours. In other words knowledge makes one wiser with time and life based upon wider and deeper experiences. So people who somehow end up wasting their life cannot understand things because they never tried to understand them. They live day by day rather than think ahead and plan and execute the plan.
Understanding the whole thing is of vital importance as a unit, because bits and pieces make no sense otherwise on their own. A brick is just an object on its own but its purpose is to be used for building something. A brick can therefore be a part of a house, a road or a wall etc etc. Building blocks only make sense when they are shown to be part of something bigger. Bricks even when they are made are made with some purpose or use in mind. This is why references only make sense within a particular context because ideas and things only have values due to their use. A number or a letter is useless on its own but once it is used in reference to something it gains its place value. Likewise our brains and senses are useless if we do not use them for some purpose and if that purpose is constructive and beneficial then that gives them value otherwise they matter not. So if anyone wants to get oneself rid of confusion then the best thing one can do for oneself is to start thinking methodically and start getting information and learn how to put it together in a way that it makes sense. Senseless ideas and things even if attributed to God remain senseless that is why we come to realise God could not have said or done this or that because it makes no sense.
It has become our culture to ask others and then do things as told without going through trouble of finding out if it is right to do something or not. In other words we just do not want to use our God given brains and senses to find answers we need for ourselves. We should not be donkeys carrying books or worse than animals due to not using our brains and senses properly for the purpose they are provided for.
regards and all the best.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
^ Can anyone please translate the above post?
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
It means:
But this part of Mughal1’s post is a true gem …
**"**So if anyone wants to get oneself rid of confusion then the best thing one can do for oneself is to start thinking methodically and start getting information and learn how to put it together in a way that it makes sense."
I think I had to do that when reading his post and translating it for you kakaballi … But does one take heed of ones own advice?
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Thanks dear psyah.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Over the history it has been proven that humans by nature would always like to be independent - the last 100 years events resulted in 180 + nations on earth! All such types of rule - empires, huge kingdoms or khilafat so on so forth have become obsolete!
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Over the history it has been proven that humans by nature would always like to be independent - the last 100 years events resulted in 180 + nations on earth! All such types of rule - empires, huge kingdoms or khilafat so on so forth have become obsolete!
That is not technically true - these days direct control is not favoured by the stronger countries ... they opt for UN and sanctions to control governments ... The League of Nations that became the UN and other groups such as various councils are all part of a very different picture and form of colonisation ...
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
These thoughts and ideas are keeping us complacent and sticking to a fairy tales world! In my early teens after reading some Moulana Moudadi's book - the only dream I used to see (plus the day dreams) in those days - that how muslims have regained the Qudus!
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
That is not technically true - these days direct control is not favoured by the stronger countries ... they opt for UN and sanctions to control governments ... The League of Nations that became the UN and other groups such as various councils are all part of a very different picture and form of colonisation ...
Absolutely wrong! Puting the blames of your own wrong doings to other. Example is the continent of South America with fewer conflicts and wars - although they speak mostly one language Spanish - why they not establish a Spanish Empire and expand it to countries like Pakistan or KSA?
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Absolutely wrong! Puting the blames of your own wrong doings to other. Example is the continent of South America with fewer conflicts and wars - although they speak mostly one language Spanish - whey they not establish a Spanish Empire and expand it to countries like Pakistan or KSA?
Peace Mostar95
Sorry ... I didn't understand your response - apart from the fact that you disagree with me, which is fine, but I don't understand your argument.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Dear Mostar sb, for last countless number of generations mankind have been fighting each other not because they do not want to live with each other but because they do not want to live with each other on the unacceptable terms and conditions. Otherwise we have been living in organised and regulated human societies and proof is existence of families, clans, tribes, governments and united nations organisations.
How can we live independent of each other when we come from each other and we need each other to exist and carry on living? So the main things is to look for an acceptable foundation upon which we could live with each other and build our human community in such a way that ensures our well being. This is what the revelation of Allah provides us with. A common ground that is solid as a rock in form of a program for a set of goals with guidelines that cannot be surpassed.
You are right that our maulanas have not given us the roadmap the quran puts froth but it is also our own fault as well that those who gave us the road map we neglected them and tried to get rid of them due to our ignorance, illiteracy, lack of education and most of all lack of ability to think methodically.
Whenever any form of advancement came about our mullahs condemned it and deliberately kept ummah blind and stagnant that resulted in regression. So called ottoman empire was thought of as a khilaafat but when printing press was invented it forbade its use and likewise many things were not allowed by mullahs that were technological and that is how ignorant mullalhs and ignorant uimmah led each other to a dead end.
The quran gives us a way of life that gives us independence from each other where it is needed and support of each other where that is needed because it ensures well being of mankind under all situations and circumstances.
Deen of islam is basically a way of life that is all about living by the book that ensures well being of individuals as well as a community rather than living by dictation of any particular person for his own advantage over others which leads to use and abuse of each other.
You help me where I need your help and I help you where you need my help that is the wasy of life the quran puts forth and it is about complementing each other to ensure well being of each other as much as it is humanly possible. Man made rule is all about I try to take advantage of you where I can and you do the same where you can using various tricks and mechanisms that we can improvise and devise. This is why world is turned into a living hell by people for themselves. People have been attributing a lot of nonsense to Allah, his scriptures and his messengers over the ages despite Allah sending them thousands of books and messengers to teach them proper way of living their lives. However humanity is gradually waking up and through enlightenment so things will soon start getting better and better.
regards and all the best.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
I would only say keep on living in complacency.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
The power struggle will remain between people always till mankind as a whole accept a common foundation which ensures well being of all involved. That is what the quran provides us with but the message has been masked by rulers, mullahs, money lenders, their touts, supporters and followers.
This is why we can never become united, peaceful, progressive and prosperous so long as we accept any rule based on any rule of law that does not address this fundamental problem and till we accept the proper solution by educating ourselves about it.
Ignoring things is not the solution and it can never be nor solution lies in accepting false basis for solution of this problem. This is why open mindedness is prerequisite and that cannot happen till people fight against their own ignorance and lack of education. It is a time consuming and very demanding task but people have no choice but to undertake this task, the sooner the better.
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
Over the history it has been proven that humans by nature would always like to be independent - the last 100 years events resulted in 180 + nations on earth! All such types of rule - empires, huge kingdoms or khilafat so on so forth have become obsolete!
Yes you are right in a way that so called self appointed Khilafats are obsolete, but rulers over vast territories and Empires still exist, look around you?
Re: Khilafat-need to know more
I would only say keep on living in complacency.
No one here is being complacent inshaAllah ... Part of complacency is to accept the status quo ... But hopefully we are all aligned on the idea that we need to change. The only difference is how we are supposed to express ourselves and which way to go ... Staying still is not an option. Some will choose to try to go back to a time in the past but we are too far gone to return back, may be there is solution, a different one ... But better minds need to help us out with them ... But to lay back and accept the global situation as it is currently unfolding before us should be resisted.