Keep govt out of religion, Powell advises guests

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Judge^MentuLL: *

Fine. Then what is preventing you implementing the non-secular solution of your choice? Surely failed systems shouldn't be much of an obstacle if what you are saying is true?
[/QUOTE]

That is correct to a point. To change the system of a country is not as simple as a IT project as you make it sound.

To change the system you need to have the power to change that means you need the backing of the army, the influential people and once all this is in place then you can implement your system.

For one point which i should mention the muslim ummah is definetly wanting an islamic state so the population is already onside. The only one against this are the secualr extremists and the western leaders along with there agents hence the title of this Post "Keep Religion out of politics, Colin powell advises muslims" because they know sooner or later it is an inevitability.

42

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
ak-47 what do you want every country to be relgious entities relpace
their laws with religous laws?
[/QUOTE]

Rvkiz

When i talk about islamic shariah law. You say religous laws i think you are referring to xstianity, bhuddism, hinduism etc. And this is important because there is big difference.

You cannot compare those religions to the islamic system, because islam is unique in having systems to deal with mans affairs because it has systems of judiciary, eductaion, economy and foriegn policy just to name a few, again the title of this post notes that even colin powell recognizes the fact islam has this political aspect. Also islam has a spirtual aspect. So it is the only system in the world that has both a political and spiritual aspect.

Capitalism and Communism which are only politcial systems ignore the fact there is a creator. They do not tackle this subject they either deny it in the case of communism or don't answer the fundamental questions on mans creation.

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *

Rvkiz

When i talk about islamic shariah law. You say religous laws i think you are referring to xstianity, bhuddism, hinduism etc. And this is important because there is big difference.

You cannot compare those religions to the islamic system, because islam is unique in having systems to deal with mans affairs because it has systems of judiciary, eductaion, economy and foriegn policy just to name a few, again the title of this post notes that even colin powell recognizes the fact islam has this political aspect. Also islam has a spirtual aspect. So it is the only system in the world that has both a political and spiritual aspect.

Capitalism and Communism which are only politcial systems ignore the fact there is a creator. They do not tackle this subject they either deny it in the case of communism or don't answer the fundamental questions on mans creation.
[/QUOTE]

how do you feed 6 billion people with relgious law?

44

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

how do you feed 6 billion people with relgious law?
[/QUOTE]

The resources available on earth are sufficient to secure the basic needs (food, clothing, and shelter) of fifty billion human beings. Such a misunderstanding has concealed the reality that starvation, poverty, and economic backwardness, result from maldistribution exasperated by man-made laws and systems. Under the Islamic system, Nigeria alone could support the whole of Africa.

So Rvkiz there is enough resources for the world 10 times over and you can clearly see that where in the west they throw away mountains of bread daily, and lakes of milk go to waste while africa and other areas starve to death!

Its just a question of distribution.

45

*KSA implement shariah. really

Now i know you have no clue about what islam is. If KSA implement shariah then why have they got a royal family? If they implement shriah as you claim why have they provided bases for attacks on iraq because they implementing shriah according to you. I think you need to take a look at saudi constitution as well before you comment!*

Tell me for you a man who says his daily prayers, observes fasting, pays Zakat and does every other thing his religion demands but his drinks alcohaol, is a muslim or not. Saudi Arabia adheres to Shariah Law, albeit a Monarchy. You are the first person I came across, who is denying this fact.

since you ignore the facts that the major wars where caused by secualrism. You talk about the great secular examples in the west is laughable!

Secularism demands that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education. Secularism is not there to hinder wars between nations.

*Secularism's shortcoming is seen clearly in the homelands of secularism in the West; violence, discrimination and persecution upon Afro-Caribbeans, Hispanics, South Asians, Muslims, Jews and other minorities is so common that it is almost accepted as part of life. *

These are mere empty allegations. No system is perfect . There might be some discrimination against Hispanics or other communities in the USA, nevertheless they have more rights in these secular countries then even in their own countries.

*In america recent examples show, the Muslim legal permanent residents of America are American citizens and the constitution gives them the same rights as the Christians, but in practice, the American authorities and people treat them as an enemy within. *

These are the consequeces of the 9-11 event. I am not living in the USA, therefore I can't judge the real situation.

Two of the most vicious enemies of the Muslims, India and Israel, are secular democracies wherein minorities have been persecuted regularly for over fifty years.* The list of those minorities who possess horrific testimony of persecution is large and growing- Muslims of Kashmir, Ayodhya, Gujarat and Assam; Sikhs of Amritsar; Ethiopian and Arab Jews of Israel; Christians and Muslims of Israel; Untouchables throughout India.*

I have told you before, I don't consider India a true secular country. As far as Israel is concern, in Israel the tension betwenn Jews and Arab minority is related to the israeli-palestinian conflict.

*
Face it secularism is a failed system that no one with sense should implement. *

Come and live in any west european country and judge it yourself.

46

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *

The resources available on earth are sufficient to secure the basic needs (food, clothing, and shelter) of fifty billion human beings. Such a misunderstanding has concealed the reality that starvation, poverty, and economic backwardness, result from maldistribution exasperated by man-made laws and systems. Under the Islamic system, Nigeria alone could support the whole of Africa.

So Rvkiz there is enough resources for the world 10 times over and you can clearly see that where in the west they throw away mountains of bread daily, and lakes of milk go to waste while africa and other areas starve to death!

Its just a question of distribution.
[/QUOTE]

KSA has also enough money to finace universities and schools throughout the muslim world, but unfortunately the only thing they are supporting is the Wahabi ideology.

I have heard that the construction of the Shah Faisal Mosque was also financed by the Saudi Arabain government, it did cost almost 45 Million US-Dollar, what a waste of money.

In a country where the bulk of the population is illiterate, people have no access to clean water, health care system is poorly financed, in that country the construction of such buildings is a luxury for me.

47

why pakistan is created ? fear seularism will fail and they wont be treated by majority fairly. still they dont trust each other and even want
to wipe each other out in the name of religen.

48

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *
*KSA implement shariah. really

*

Saudi Arabia adheres to Shariah Law, albeit a Monarchy. You are the first person I came across, who is denying this fact.

Secularism demands that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education. Secularism is not there to hinder wars between nations.

These are mere empty allegations. No system is perfect . There might be some discrimination against Hispanics or other communities in the USA, nevertheless they have more rights in these secular countries then even in their own countries.

These are the consequeces of the 9-11 event. I am not living in the USA, therefore I can't judge the real situation.

I have told you before, I don't consider India a true secular country. As far as Israel is concern, in Israel the tension betwenn Jews and Arab minority is related to the israeli-palestinian conflict.

Come and live in any west european country and judge it yourself.
[/QUOTE]

I am the first man you come across that is denying Saudi Arabia adheres to shariah law. Well that is amazing because i have met hundreds of people who know for fact it does not. I said to you just look at the constituition of Saudi and you will realize this fact just like when I prooved to you pakistan is secular. To make a country islamic state the system needs to be based on shariah implementing one or 2 rules on marriage does not make a country based on islamic system.

**Article 5a

"The ruling system in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is one of Kingship."
Article 5c

The King chooses his successor and dismisses him in a Royal decree.
**
Just as with the pakistan constitution simple analysis can determine what these words in the constituion really mean. Just saying law in tune with law of god and spirit of islam is just smoke screen.

You are denying that racism and discrimination exists you brush it off as mere allegations and it not that bad really. That is really ridiculous because these problems are well known its not something new.

Then you making excuses for muslims being persecuted because of 9/11 the system is a failure by your own admission because it cannot protect there rights!

Israel and India you again make excuse and say they not really true secular countries which is not based on fact because both have constituitions and systems that are secular!

As for your final point been there done it got the t shirt!

Rvkiz
Sectarianism will continue to plague countries around the world because secular democracies throughout the world are plagued by violence and discrimination against minorities.

Secularism fails to take the needs of people and there concerns. Secularism highlights and promotes difference, colour, nationality etc the result people get into there groups and tribes and fight each other.

So the root problem is the system and this is what needs to change!

49

pity the nation that is full of beliefs and empty of religion..