Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
^ If the point of your post is to imply white people in general are confused about the Quran (and even more so hadith) because of its Arabcentric message, then I agree with you.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
The Romans mentioned in the Quran are the people of the state that was based at Constantinople, not Istanbul.
The capital of the Roman Empire was moved from Rome to Constantinople in 330AD. The Roman Empire was partitioned in the late 300s and then the Western part, centred on the city of Rome, was overrun by barbarians.
This left the Eastern part, with its capitol at Constantinople and owning most of the Middle East, as the sole remaining Roman nation.
Surah 30 refers to this state. It’s people were identified by themselves and their neighbours, including the arabs, as being Romans.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
try Seminole - it isn't too difficult really - to look beyond the locations, names and languages and get to the morals and lessons behind the stories, parables, examples... they are universal, even if your ability to comprehend isn't
i don't see the Bible talking too much about Yellowstone Park or Disney Land
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
because the first audience spread their knowledge to later audiences.
If the Quran detailed Indian heritage, politics, and culture, it would not be understood by the Arab communities it was revealed to as they had no knowledge of these things and no way to get this knowledge.
By contrast, when Arabs settled in trading posts on the Indian coast, and later came in invading armies, they not only brought knowledge of their religion to Indian communities, but simultaneously brought knowledge of the culture into which the Quran was revealed. Indians learnt Islam and Arab culture simultaneously and so the references in the Quran to arab culture were easily understood.
A universal religion would fall flat on its face if its cultural references were not relevant to the community expected to initiate the expansion of the religion. If they could not understand such references they would be unable to explain it to others.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
as i said to Ma Mooli… Rome itself as a “place” isn’t mentioned in that surah… someone’s original question earlier in the thread was: “Does the Quran talk of anywhere outside of the Middle East?”…
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
Perhaps in ancient times, before mass education and communication. That’s why I don’t believe the Quran is the ‘final’ message. Besides that, I believe if there is a “final, one books solves all message”, it will have less to do with wars, carnality and massive worship to God for the sake of worshipping God, and more to do with spirituality and universal love and tolerance. I don’t see a modified 7th century Arab culture as being the end all of human sprituality and values. I don’t think God will require me to learn and adapt to a culture that is so foreign and not necessarily even the model to aspire to.
Whereas I understand the typical response is “we don’t know why God does what he does”. I don’t think a perfect God would leave us with the only “final” message that doesn’t have much of a chance of ever becoming the universal religion. Islam may very well be the final message for some who can adapt to it and become the spiritual beings God surely intends for us to become. But not for all. Unlike Muslims or fundamentalist Christians, I think there is more than one path to salvation.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
My point is that you presume to speak for millions of people when you in yourself are one of the minority, plus you are white. I am glad we are in agreement.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
The issue then, Seminole, is that you hold of two differing views of the role of universal religion.
One side (mine) views that universal religion is a set of rules, guidelines and values to which all societies are capable of adapting themselves to adhere to, such that different societies and cultures move to be much more similar to each other.
The other (yours) views that universal religion is a set of rules, guidelines and values that can in their original or adpated form be applied to all societies without those societies needing to change - a system of belief that can be held without requiring societies and cultures to become less distinct from each other.
Frankly, the experience of the mainstream Christian churches is a strong argument against the second view. Both Protestant and Catholic churches have been trying between the 50s and 80s to adapt their beliefs to some extent to accomodate the growing liberalism of society and to reflect it, and lost active adherents as a result.
By contrast, the more recent hardline attitude of the Catholic Church and in particular the Evangelical movement within the Protestant Churches, which have been trying to leverage the power of religion to force society to change, have begun drawing adherents.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
Your'e right I don't speak for millions, I speak for billions. Or do you have another explanation why the perfect message hasn't been adopted by more than 20% of the world after 1400 years? I don't know where you learned math, but 80% is an overlwhelming majority.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
Actually, Seminole no you dont speak for the 80%. I am sure that even, in this"mass communication" age there are many who have their eyes and ears shut. They only believe in DNC agenda. They also like to pass jusdgement on other religions (on a board where majority believes in that religion) and than expect to be treated with respect. Once and for all, if you cannot respect our religion, kindly refrain from making degrading remarks. I believ I speak for 99% of the people on this board.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
How do my personal opinions disrespect your religion? I can only judge something based on my beliefs and interpretation. Many don't many just go with the flow, don't rock the boat, follow the leader, take the easy way. I'm not.
I have always said that if someone believes Islam is their true salvation, good for them! It could very well be the right path for them. There are many teachings in Islam that IMO that are the right path. But by me saying it's not for me is not meant as disrespect, it's just not my thing. Do you even care what some of the 80% non-Muslims' beliefs may be? Talk about eyes and ears shut.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
^ human beings are funny creatures they adapt best practices and discard old ones. If a practice is universal as it touts to be, it is adapted universally by human beings, i.e. basic scientific paradigms, logical concepts. If they are not universally applicable, they resonate with those who are shunning adaptation. It's quite simple really.
I speak for the 100% who say that no religion is universal. Especially those religions that prescribe governance, morality and economics as static divine mandates.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
Bermuda Triangle if full of ghosts, clowns and fags
That makes it dangerous :D
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
Seminole: If your education to date has failed you to the extent that you can no longer distinguish between polite expression and insulting something obviously sacred, then it is not the wisest of moves to highlight thus. You are obviously not that smart or particularly sharp, as you fail to recognise that some things are beyond the realms of your ego and you would also never be presumptuous enough to presume to speak on the behalf of billions.
To make it clearer to you ( as you are old) liken my religion to a family member.
I don't insult your mother, you in turn don't insult my religion.
And uncle, If I feel insulted, it is obviously your fault :)
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
hiccup: as long as we are accusing each other of not being smart or particluarly sharp, your assumption that I am old and white speaks volumes about your own brilliance.
If someone doesn't agree with your interpretation of religion, is that an insult? That's mighty thin skin you have. And sorry that's your fault. If you don't want to discuss religion or only want to hear what you want to hear, why are you even in a religion forum? To validate your own myopic beliefs?
I don't pretend to speak for billions, only myself. As far as insulting, you are the one who said "speak for yourself white boy", attacked my intelligence, and repeat things "'because I'm old".
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
Age is a relative thing, and relatively you are old.
Yet again you have failed to grasp the message dear fellow. I am not insulted that you are not a muslim and disagree with me. I am insulted becasue you seem to lack the capability of decent expression and presume to speak for the world.
There is a manner to discussion and debate. It is not my fault if you lack the basic skills required. Dont blame me, blame your highschool teachers.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
O one who speaks for himself alone. Here is a quote I plucked out of thin air.
"Your'e right I don't speak for millions, I speak for billions."
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
^ no wonder he's so easily "confused" as he keeps mentioning
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
Azazil was his name to begin with. Both the other names, Iblees and Satan, were acquired later after he showed such character traits.
Re: Jinn in the Bermuda Triangle?
hiccup: Old, relative to what? Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age. Enough with the debating critiques already, don't have a clue.
Anyway, sorry you are insulted at the way I express myself. But just like your critique of anyone else's debating techniques, you don't have a leg to stand on.
BTW, my comment about speaking for others was based on your incorrect assertion that I "presume to speak for millions of people when you in yourself are one of the minority". I was using a debating technique I learned in college that uses sarcasm to underscore an inaccurate statement.