Jews . .

[doctornaveeed]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ace:
***Faraz mir*- chill.

The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
**
[/quote]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ace:

**One thing which always surprises me is when muslims go jew bashing- Are they jews first or humans first?

point?
The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

I mean look at this logically, do you people consider your OWN self bad? then why do you think that jews(I.E you're judging a whole nation) are 'BAD'.

point?
The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

They're humans like us with the same feelings and everything- the only thing separating them from us are their beliefs.

point?
The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

I think when it is said to not 'befriend' the jews, all it really means is that we shouldn't get too close too them, hence me might go astray- thats all.

point?
The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

We should all make it a habit to look at Islam in terms of 'How does Islam benefit me(spiritually and physically)?, How does Islam benefit the world? Does it bring people together or builds walls between them?'

point?
The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

Honestly- Islam does NOT mean following whatever comes to your mind and then justifying it through the book-

point?
The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

ALL ISLAMIC ORDERS SHOULD BE DEFINED THROUGH LOGIC.

point?

The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

If its a command by Allah(SWT) it must be logical.

point?
The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

Saying that THEY(i.e. the jews) are this and THAT(and creating a wall- and stopping more and more people from following the blessed path of Islam) leads to nowhere.

point?

The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

Anyhow- just my humble opinion in regards to a few jew-bashing posts I've seen across the board, and my general observations of how we're brought up to hate jews without any real justification other than 'THEY CAN NEVER BE YOUR FRIEND!'.

point?
The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.
point?

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited April 07, 2002).]**
[/quote]

in which of the following statements is ur point of quote

The original point was- Jews are not the point of our downfall but we are.

quote

no where anywhere is ur point evident.

now y did i answer what i answered
quote

how we're brought up to hate jews without any real justification other than '*THEY CAN NEVER BE YOUR FRIEND

quote

ignoring the fact that each one of ur sentences can start a new topic,i cud not believe my eyes to c one muslim referring to something which is allahs clearcut advise against as allah puts it JEWS for the muslims.

if u want to be philanthropist be one .if u want to advocate friendship with jews do so.nobody minds yaar.
atleast dont lie about ur point or atleast be clear as u so much keep on harping about LOGIC.

my answer was to tell u the facts which have bred dissatisfaction and discord among the muslims against jews.

muslim disdain of jews is not unfounded.u belittle the emotions of muslims allover the world who feel for palestinian muslims.

U HAVE THIS BLOODY MISCONCEPTION THAT EVERY COMMAND OF ALLAH CAN BE LOGICALED OUT BY MAN?

(IF I MAY USE THE TERM LOGICALED THAT IS)

why do our sentiments bug u.

of course if u consider evryone else just donkeys (the different set of religion as u say)u wud get ur a@@ kicked all over the globe

and u have the nerve to just come up without knowing abt the subject

somaybe now u know now?negetive feedback means that u did not put forward ur point.

and u have constantly strayed form ur so called point

[Ace]

doctornaveed- Please take this a request, next time nicely format your message. Its a strain going through line after line of text which makes no grammatical sense.

I HAVE stressed the same point throughout the thread, if you’re blind to it I cant really help it. You tell me one thing, If you write an essay, a research paper, or anything- does every line of your paper repeat the same point? Or does it try to prove your point rather than repeating the point. Your above post is very childish to say the least if you expect me to repeat the same words over and over again.

And the reason why I asked fellow muslims to look at Jews as fellow human beings is because of our obsession with Jews being bad, and how THEY are doing this and that to muslims. We just dont want to accept that by sheer hard work they have gotten ahead of us.

Allah’s advice is not to befriend the jews, it in no way tells us to act paranoid and hateful. Are you telling me Allah would tell us to hate someone? Isn’t that my whole argument? Stop hating the jews since they’re not the reason for your downfall?

Do you argue just for the sake of it? Yes I believe that everything that Allah has ordered is logical. Allah does not ask me to do wrong and illogical things. I belittle the emotions of muslims? No, I want muslims to realize that this hate isn’t solving anything. I feel for Palestinian muslims, does that mean that I should hate jews and regard them as the reason for our downfall?

I have the nerve to come up without knowing about the subject? Then why do you happen to be the one blabbering innecessantly?

And I knew I would get negative feedback- Cleaning our minds of the filth its filled up with will not be easy. Do you even read your post and check to see if it conforms with what Islam and Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) ordered or are you really too absorbed in your self-righteousness?

Sentinel- If you come across this thread, please lock it. Nothing positive is coming out of it. I think I’ll have to learn that people will never budge from their rigid perspectives. Thanks.

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[doctornaveeed]

all the prominent scholars of islam who dedicated their lives do develop a deeper understanding of the verse of ALLMIGHTY were never so insolent enuff or disrespectful to the divinity of the mighty verse of allah so much so as to say that we have completely understood the quran.how much effort have u put in as compared to that in understanding quran?

and then u say that its ur humble opinion without even knowing wat u r talking about and giving absolutely no regard to the refrences i have put forth just thinking that ur logic can encompass allahs wisdom in warning muslims against jews

[Ace]

I intend to end this discussion now. You've mutilated my point of view more than once.

And yes I believe that Allah asks us to do things which are logical and right, even if I dont understand them to be logical. I know enough to say that Allah wouldn't want two nations on this earth hating each other to bits. Now forget it, the two of us are different wavelenghts and I certainly dont want feelings of regret and disapproval between us.

[Khoon-e-Shaheed]

Originally posted by doctornaveeed:
** ignoring the fact that each one of ur sentences can start a new topic, **

** HAHA GOOD ONE !!! **

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if u want to be philanthropist be one . ** if u want to advocate friendship with jews do so. ** nobody minds yaar.
** atleast dont lie about ur point or atleast be clear as u so much keep on harping about LOGIC. **

** Very Well worded Doctor Sahab.

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** I wish I could have answered him in a similar manner.

muslim disdain of jews is not unfounded. ** u belittle the emotions of muslims allover the world ** who feel for palestinian muslims.

** How eloquently and clearly said. !!! ** Yaar Naveed, tumhari tou baat hi kuch aur hai

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**
U HAVE THIS BLOODY MISCONCEPTION THAT EVERY COMMAND OF ALLAH CAN BE LOGICALED OUT BY MAN?

**

Good point.

**
of course if u consider evryone else just donkeys …

**

Yes, I’ve been noticing his attitude with some individuals who ** dare think differently ** than him. As if he’s trying to control their thinking. And, then he even ended up giving his ** psychological report ** about me.

Very good Naveed. I wish I could’ve tackled him in a manner he deserves to be tackled.

**
and u have the nerve to just come up without knowing abt the subject
*
and u have constantly strayed form ur so called point *

**

** 100% AGREED !!!

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I still don’t get his point Naveed. I’d tried explaining to him that Muslims are not filled with hate before. But after a few posts when I’d made my point, I discontinued.

** Ace **, let me use your own language, I’m not being disrespectful, and no offense intended, but you poke your nose with great contempt and self-righteousness even when the post has nothing to do with you. And , then you give your ** psychological analysis ** of the person who made the post, and then ** force it down his throat **, and do not yield. And then you have all these ** "You.. YOu.. YOu.. YOu are .. YOu are such a .. You do…etc " statements **, without any basis. And, then you start new topics, to ** belittile ** the other person. And, then you ** put words in the other person’s mouth **, in such a self-righteous manner, and try to give an image as if the person is really bad and you are the peaceful, nice person. (after twisting the words of the other person). First of all, nobody is concerned with your psychological analysis, and here we are not discussing the personalities of the guppies. What we need is objective arguments, not subjective personal attacks. And, then you ask such baseless and ridiculous questions like "What have you done for Islam? How will it benefit Islam? ", as if anyone who dares do anything that is different from your style, is really harmful to Islam. And whatever you do is really beneficial to Islam. Even if it didn’t benefit Islam, can’t someone express his thoughts ? Is benefitting Islam (in your style and manner), the only criteria to let anyone to express his thoughts ? Everyone has different priorities, and we all think differently. No offense intended, but this is how you come across as.

I know it’s wrong to speak out against a fellow Muslim in such a manner, and I apologise for any incorrect remarks I may have made.

You don’t need to reply me back. I don’t want to take it any further.

[Faraz_Mir]

Ace and others, it is really no use when you are arguing with a bunch of bigoted mental rejects.

Allah has given them brains but they refuse to use them and instead babble on and on about the Jew conspiracy, the Jew-loving this and that. They are like little kids brainwashed by their parents or Mullahs into hating everyone else. They just cannot and will not understand another point of view.

Having known such types of Muslims, I really cannot blame non-Muslims who view Muslims as a dangerous people.

It is funny that these same people will cry when others stereotype against Muslims, but they do not mind about their own racism towards Jews and others.

BTW, Jew is also a race, and not necessarily a religious title only.

[Ace]

Faraz Mir I think I'll deal with Indian Muslim the same way he wants to deal with everyone.

Indian Muslim, All I see is that YOUR post is the one analysing me? Now kindly read your posts, and mine, and if you can justify that your posts confirm more to the Sunnah of the Prophet(PBUH) and the guidelines of Islam- Its a promise that I will go back, and edit each and every one of my posts on this board, so that no fellow muslim is hurt by my physcological analysis. I'll post a public apology as well.

You still haven't put forward any point. You say muslims are not full of hate? By that token what are you then? You've posted rubbish about a fellow muslim and I dare say you gave yourself a pat on the back after that.

[sholay]

This must be the only place on earth, where you can get away with Slander, Stereotyping, Profiling, Racial,Sexual and Verbal Abuse, Personal Attacks and Freedom of Speech!

I am amazed at how many different turns the thread has taken.

I honestly can't be bothered posting more at the moment as the 'Paki-Bashing' seems to be text book predictable.

Once I find a cure for 'Compulsive Labelling Because I Disagree With You Disorder' (CLBIDWYD), I'll let you all know!!!!

[moona]

Well folks, I'm definitely sticking by my views of the entire Jewish situation and that's that! Bottom line: You can't change historical evidence/facts. Allah ho akbar!

[Khoon-e-Shaheed]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ace:
I think I'll deal with Indian Muslim the same way he wants to deal with everyone.
[/quote]

** MY Answer:

[quote]
Originally posted by Khoon-e-Shaheed:

Ace , let me use your own language,

[/quote]
**

[quote]

Indian Muslim, All I see is that YOUR post is the one analysing me? Now kindly read your posts, and mine,
[/quote]

** MY Answer:

[quote]
Originally posted by Khoon-e-Shaheed:

Ace , let me use your own language,

[/quote]
**

[quote]

and if you can justify that your posts confirm more to the Sunnah of the Prophet(PBUH) and the guidelines of Islam-

[/quote]

** Oh Pulllleeeeezz.. Again * straying * away from the topic !!! **

I never claimed my attitude is in line with the attitude of the Holy Prophet (S).

You seem to have a lot of stamina to debate, quite often bringing in new issues and straying away from the topic.

[quote]

You still haven't put forward any point. You say muslims are not full of hate?
[/quote]

In my other post, I had asked you ** just 2 questions ** that would prove my point. Even after ** repeated requests **, you however, apparently avoided them.

And, now , you tell me : * " You still haven't put forward any point " * ???

[quote]

You've posted rubbish about a fellow muslim and I dare say you gave yourself a pat on the back after that.
[/quote]

** MY Answer:

[quote]
Originally posted by Khoon-e-Shaheed:

Ace , let me use your own language,

[/quote]
**

Unfortunately, Ace, I seriously do not have the ** time and stamina ** to continue defending myself against your accusations.

As I said in my previous post, I don't want to take it any further.

Wassalaam u 'Alaikum

[doctornaveeed]

[2:16]
It is they who bought the straying, at the expense of

guidance. Such trade never prospers, nor do they receive
any guidance.

[2:17]
Their example is like those who start a fire, then, as it
begins to shed light around them, GOD takes away their

light, leaving them in darkness, unable to see.

[2:18]
Deaf, dumb, and blind; they fail to return.

maybe me maybe u,who knows