Mr Verizon isnt wrong people. That "tourist" was asking for it, surely. Yes, it was very tragic what happened to him and yes, those who carried out the execution were animals....but still. You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer if you decide to vacation in a war zone. Thats like wearing a micro-mini skirt and spike heels down the street in a village in pak....just DONT DO IT or you'll surely find big time trouble.
Ok, for those who keep blaming about sheeding tears for the Iraqi's, I have done so, many times. What part of my post where I condemned taking innocent life did you not understand.
Verizon, you can stick to your guns, but for me, life is precious. Whenever someone innocent is killed, it hurts me and a lot of other people. As a Muslim it hurts me even more when so called Muslims do it chanting Allah's name. Yes, these people are animals, they kill their own. Hence my use of the term "animals" for them. The most innocent and hurt in this whole sad tragedy are the common Iraqi people (men, women and children).
I will state this again, no God ever said to take innocent life. Show me where in the Quran it says to take an innocent human being and slaughter him because you are unhappy right now. Yes killing is allowed in wars (when armies are opposed to one another and fight) and for capital punishment. Tell me when did Koda oppose these terrorists in the field of battle?
Oh, and don't tell me these terrorists are waging a war against the U.S. I understand what war is. If these terrorists would fight like men and target U.S. army and bases then I would say they are fighting for their freedom. But kidnappings and beheadings of innocent civilians, they lose whatever moral support they are counting on from the common person in this world.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
Ok, for those who keep blaming about sheeding tears for the Iraqi's, I have done so, many times. What part of my post where I condemned taking innocent life did you not understand.
Verizon, you can stick to your guns, but for me, life is precious. Whenever someone innocent is killed, it hurts me and a lot of other people. As a Muslim it hurts me even more when so called Muslims do it chanting Allah's name. Yes, these people are animals, they kill their own. Hence my use of the term "animals" for them. The most innocent and hurt in this whole sad tragedy are the common Iraqi people (men, women and children).
I will state this again, no God ever said to take innocent life. Show me where in the Quran it says to take an innocent human being and slaughter him because you are unhappy right now. Yes killing is allowed in wars (when armies are opposed to one another and fight) and for capital punishment. Tell me when did Koda oppose these terrorists in the field of battle?
Oh, and don't tell me these terrorists are waging a war against the U.S. I understand what war is. If these terrorists would fight like men and target U.S. army and bases then I would say they are fighting for their freedom. But kidnappings and beheadings of innocent civilians, they lose whatever moral support they are counting on from the common person in this world.
[/QUOTE]
xguru, between innocent blood and the blood of a soldier andor agent is a big big difference, ok I agree both are human, but then when we start crying for deaths of war lords then why "produce" them and drag them to war regions??!
I never ever said I have had some pop corn and Budwiser while watching the movie of his beheading, in sheer pleasure!!
So why those blames!?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ali_R: *
xguru, between innocent blood and the blood of a soldier andor agent is a big big difference, ok I agree both are human, but then when we start crying for deaths of war lords then why "produce" them and drag them to war regions??!
[/QUOTE]
I don't know if I understand what you are saying here, but I don't think I have ever said to shed tears for any war lord. Basically what I am trying to differentiate is between people who declare war on one another but in the process intentionaly target and kill innocent people.
The U.S. declared war on Saddam's regime and went after him. If he was man enough he would have came out and defended his country instead of hiding amongst civilians. Had he died while fighting for his country, yes he would have lost but that is ok. People would have remembered what he did for his country and gathered strength from that. That is what having honor is all about.
Now, these terrorists have declared war on the U.S. Fine with me. They have an invader in their country and I would fight to get rid of any invader that threatens my country. But unlike honorable men why don't they come out and fight the U.S. army on the field of battle. Why do they hide amongst the civilians and kill innocent civilians in the process? That is wrong to me as well.
The prophet (pbuh) never hid in Medina and killed innocent Meccans. He was an honorable man and came out in the field of battle even though the Muslims were outnumbered and sure to lose. That is history and another topic, but you get my point.
[QUOTE]
I never ever said I have had some pop corn and Budwiser while watching the movie of his beheading, in sheer pleasure!!
So why those blames!?
[/QUOTE]
Ok I understand what you are saying but when I read words like he (Koda) was stupid and had it coming, that is what made me say what I did. He might be stupid and made the worst decision of his life but that does not spare the people who did this to him. They are animals and deserve what I have already said.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
I don't know if I understand what you are saying here, but I don't think I have ever said to shed tears for any war lord. Basically what I am trying to differentiate is between people who declare war on one another but in the process intentionaly target and kill innocent people.
The U.S. declared war on Saddam's regime and went after him. If he was man enough he would have came out and defended his country instead of hiding amongst civilians. Had he died while fighting for his country, yes he would have lost but that is ok. People would have remembered what he did for his country and gathered strength from that. That is what having honor is all about.
Now, these terrorists have declared war on the U.S. Fine with me. They have an invader in their country and I would fight to get rid of any invader that threatens my country. But unlike honorable men why don't they come out and fight the U.S. army on the field of battle. Why do they hide amongst the civilians and kill innocent civilians in the process? That is wrong to me as well.
The prophet (pbuh) never hid in Medina and killed innocent Meccans. He was an honorable man and came out in the field of battle even though the Muslims were outnumbered and sure to lose. That is history and another topic, but you get my point.
Ok I understand what you are saying but when I read words like he (Koda) was stupid and had it coming, that is what made me say what I did. He might be stupid and made the worst decision of his life but that does not spare the people who did this to him. They are animals and deserve what I have already said.
[/QUOTE]
Good we agree on almost every point, but then who says they are not fighting on the battle field?
I mean Soldiers have been dying and still dying not just by Suicide bombings. The other main issue is that dont you think some of them are the same who are still resistant enough to oppose the mighty strength of US at Fallujah and other strong holds?!
Yes, surely there are some cowards gaining advantage from the situation right now and building groups and taking people hostage who have nothing to do with the conflict and believe me, I myself oppose those too.
But those who are still fighting against the US Soldiers, I say hats off!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ali_R: *
Good we agree on almost every point, but then who says they are not fighting on the battle field?
I mean Soldiers have been dying and still dying not just by Suicide bombings. The other main issue is that dont you think some of them are the same who are still resistant enough to oppose the mighty strength of US at Fallujah and other strong holds?!
Yes, surely there are some cowards gaining advantage from the situation right now and building groups and taking people hostage who have nothing to do with the conflict and believe me, I myself oppose those too.
But those who are still fighting against the US Soldiers, I say hats off!
[/QUOTE]
Yes those groups that state they are resisting the U.S. occupation and declare war and attack military targets are within the confines of warfare. But if the same group does these kidnappings and beheadings of civilians then their cause is moot.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Verizon: *
^^ Stick to the subject. Don't kill yourself trying to figure out differences between Domestic policy vs Foreign Policy. But thanks for pointing out. I meant to say American Foreign Policy.
[/QUOTE]
How can you so simply distinguish between the foreign and domestic policies of America? Does not the tax you pay fund the American war machine? You are part of the American empire and a legitimate target for Islamist jihadis.
As I had mentioned originally to you, stick to the subject. Let me steer you back in the convo, we are talking about a Japanese national named Koda. This poor soul was in Iraq at the wrong time and got a deadly boo-boo, now he is dead and people are pissed 
. Some are pissed at the people who killed him and some are pissed at the people who are not sad 
at him being killed. Now please opine.
I'm sorry, but now you're just trying to avoid my question. You bought up American policy here and I'm just calling you on it.
Let me quote your words.
[QUOTE]
I'll see to it when time comes, dont need any pity from a bunch of you American Policy Loving Guppies.
[/QUOTE]
You obviously equate those who support American policy to those who are humanists and against all innocent deaths. I am myself against current American policies, but I am also a humanist and condemn all barbaric acts, including beheadings done against civilians or military anywhere in the world.
If you don't want to answer questions, then don't bring up those issues.
It probably makes me not a nice person at all, but for some reason I feel nothing when Japanese hostages get beheaded compared to the utter disgust I feel when people of other nationalities get beheaded.
It's probably to do with my left over anger at the Japanese as a whole people because they beheaded my grandmother's only brother back in 1943, after starving and torturing him repeatedly for nearly 2 years. Ever since I found and read a detailed description of his execution based on eyewitness accounts, I've harboured a certain amount of anger at them. What goes around comes around.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
I'm sorry, but now you're just trying to avoid my question. You bought up American policy here and I'm just calling you on it.
Let me quote your words.
You obviously equate those who support American policy to those who are humanists and against all innocent deaths. I am myself against current American policies, but I am also a humanist and condemn all barbaric acts, including beheadings done against civilians or military anywhere in the world.
If you don't want to answer questions, then don't bring up those issues.
[/QUOTE]
Tell you what open another thread on this subject (American Foreign Policy) and I will respond, but not this thread.:)
It’s called military strategy. I guess you forgot about the Battle of the Trench. 
Why didn’t the Prophet (pbuh) come out and fight on the field? Was he a coward (astaghfurillah)?
If you didn’t get the point then you never will. Yes building a trench around Medina was a strategy to defend it in one of the wars. But did he kidnap Meccans and behead them? Infact when he marched into Mecca finally he forgave all who had caused him harm. A far cry from the jihadis of today…
If you are unable to understand the difference between war and murder, then you read the same dictionary the terrorists read. Let me make it plain and simple:
If an Iraqi group comes out and says that the U.S. occupation is unacceptable and they dclare war on them and attack only miltary targets than that is called a war. Nobody here will deny the Iraqi’s that right to defend their homeland. But if the same group kidnaps civilians and murders them as part of their declared war then they are committing murder. What is so hard to understand here…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
If an Iraqi group comes out and says that the U.S. occupation is unacceptable and they dclare war on them and attack only miltary targets than that is called a war. Nobody here will deny the Iraqi's that right to defend their homeland. But if the same group kidnaps civilians and murders them as part of their declared war then they are committing murder. What is so hard to understand here...
[/QUOTE]
but even attacks on american and iraqi collaborator army is called terrorism...why?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by xguru: *
If you didn't get the point then you never will. Yes building a trench around Medina was a strategy to defend it in one of the wars. But did he kidnap Meccans and behead them? Infact when he marched into Mecca finally he forgave all who had caused him harm. A far cry from the jihadis of today...
If you are unable to understand the difference between war and murder, then you read the same dictionary the terrorists read. Let me make it plain and simple:
If an Iraqi group comes out and says that the U.S. occupation is unacceptable and they dclare war on them and attack only miltary targets than that is called a war. Nobody here will deny the Iraqi's that right to defend their homeland. But if the same group kidnaps civilians and murders them as part of their declared war then they are committing murder. What is so hard to understand here...
[/QUOTE]
I am not condoning the murder of innocents, I never will. I was responding to your incorrect example about the way the Prophet (pbuh) fought wars. "Coming out in the open" is immature and foolish in this situation. Different strategies should be employed as demanded by the circumstance. Evidence of this is Battle of the Trench.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
but even attacks on american and iraqi collaborator army is called terrorism...why?
[/QUOTE]
By the western media and the U.S. government. Just because they say it doesn't mean we have to agree to it. That is why I have always advocated that Muslims should have a global media outlet that has the presence to differentiate between freedom fighters and terrorists. An outlet that speaks in English so that the message is understood worldwide.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
It probably makes me not a nice person at all, but for some reason I feel nothing when Japanese hostages get beheaded compared to the utter disgust I feel when people of other nationalities get beheaded.
It's probably to do with my left over anger at the Japanese as a whole people because they beheaded my grandmother's only brother back in 1943, after starving and torturing him repeatedly for nearly 2 years. Ever since I found and read a detailed description of his execution based on eyewitness accounts, I've harboured a certain amount of anger at them. What goes around comes around.
[/QUOTE]
I can understand that Aamir or well maybe I cant coz only if I would be in your skin I might do. This is something really horrible.....no words.
Why is it that we never use the simple words of Islam to condemn these acts and instead choose emotionalism, politics, military tactics and every other excuse imaginable whenever such terrorist acts happen in the name of Islam?
We have lost our way when even a basic Islamic doctrine of never killing innocents is so shrewdly twisted and ignored by those who have an agenda to spread violence and hatred.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Verizon: *
Tell you what open another thread on this subject (American Foreign Policy) and I will respond, but not this thread.:)
[/QUOTE]
You can just as well answer this question here, as it is within the subject at hand.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
**Why is it that we never use the simple words of Islam to condemn these acts and instead choose emotionalism, politics, military tactics and every other excuse imaginable * whenever such terrorist acts happen in the name of Islam?
We have lost our way when even a basic Islamic doctrine of never killing innocents is so shrewdly twisted and ignored by those who have an agenda to spread violence and hatred.
[/QUOTE]
Would we be then here to discuss and argue on any topic, sharing our views and defending our opinions??
Then I'll rather be sitting at Wood Stock smokin some fine healthy sh** out of my voodoo pipe while reminding myself "how beautiful and peaceful this world is to me" !