Israel planning on taking out Iran's Nukes?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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In an all too expected twist, IRI finds itself sandwiched in between American Occupied Iraq & Afghanistan. Now reports are emerging that Israel may try a knockout like it had done in Iraq.

The map of the Middle East is changing and it is Israelis/Americans that are driving the change. Syria the toothless nation couldn’t do anything when IAF bombed near it’s capital city, Jordan and Eygpt epitomize the word lapdog. What remains today is the Non- Arab Powers of Turkey, Iran and Pakistan..This is the last stand of the Muslim Ummah, the question is: Will the noose getting tighter reawaken the masses or will they be taken out with nothing but a whimper?

http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ArticlePage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article^l2851&enZone=Security&enVersion=0&

Der Speigel: Israel preparing strike to take out Iranian nuclear sites
By Ellis Shuman October 12, 2003

The German weekly Der Spiegel reported Saturday that the Mossad has marked six Iranian nuclear facilities as targets for an Israeli Air Force pre-emptive strike. An unnamed IAF pilot told the weekly that such a mission would be “complex, but feasible.” The Los Angeles Times reported that Israel has modified U.S.-made Harpoon cruise missiles so it can launch nuclear warheads from submarines.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon ordered Mossad chief Meir Dagani to devote “utmost efforts” to gather information about Iran’s growing nuclear capabilities, Maariv reported today. According to Maariv, Sharon told associates that “Iran is the greatest danger to Israel” and that he was coordinating intelligence gathering efforts with the United States “down to the last detail.”

Last week, Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz told senior IDF commanders that Iran’s nuclear efforts constitute “the gravest danger to Israel’s existence in the future. This is because Iran calls for Israel’s annihilation. We must do out our utmost, under U.S. guidance, to delay or eliminate the prospect of the extremist regime [in Tehran] securing weapons of this sort.”

According to Der Spiegel, a special unit of the Mossad received an order two months ago to prepare a detailed plan to destroy Iran’s nuclear sites. The Mossad believes Iran has reached an advanced stage in its nuclear program and is capable of producing enriched uranium, a vital ingredient of nuclear bombs. The report said that three of Iran’s nuclear sites were totally unknown to the outside world.

The Mossad’s plan is now ready and has been delivered to the Israeli Air Force, which will carry out the strike, Der Spiegel said. The simultaneous air strike on six Iranian nuclear facilities would be carried out by IAF F-16 fighter jets. The paper quoted an unnamed IAF pilot who said the operation, which would be far more complicated than Israel’s strike at Iraq’s nuclear reactor at Osirak in 1981, would be “complex, but feasible.”

“We think that next summer, if Iran is not stopped, it will reach self-sufficiency and this is the point of no return. After this self-capability, it will take them some two years to make a nuclear bomb,” IDF OC Intelligence Maj.-Gen. Aharon Ze’evi (Farkash) announced on Channel One television in August.

The UN’s International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) issued an ultimatum to Iran that by October 31 it would have to open all of its nuclear facilities for IAEA inspection. Media analysts suggested that the leak of the Der Spiegel report was intended to pressure Iran into complying with the international agency.

Unnamed American officials were quoted by Army Radio as saying that the United States had no plans to launch an attack against Iran at this stage, but it was impossible to know what the “crazy” Israelis would do.

Nuclear missile capability on Israeli submarines
Meanwhile, U.S. and Israeli officials say Israel has modified U.S.-made Harpoon cruise missiles so it can launch nuclear warheads from submarines, the Los Angeles Times reported on Saturday.

“The previously undisclosed submarine capability bolsters Israel’s deterrence in the event that Iran develops nuclear weapons,” the report said. But, the newspaper added, “It also complicates efforts by the United States and the United Nations to persuade Iran to abandon its suspected nuclear weapons program.”

The deployment of the modified Harpoon cruise missiles completes Israel’s nuclear program, the Los Angeles Times said. Israel has the capability of launching nuclear missiles from the land, air and sea, the report claimed.

Israeli military spokesmen refused to comment on the report, in line with the country’s policy of refusing to say if it has nuclear weapons.

MK Ephraim Sneh (Labor) told Army Radio that publication of the reports harm Israel, divert international attention from Iran’s efforts to develop nuclear capabilities, and are “incorrect.” Sneh said, “Anyone who knows the Harpoon missile realizes it could never carry a nuclear warhead.”

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The US has had Stealth technology for 15 years. Any bets on when Israel develops it?

Israel would be foolish to let the reactors go into full operation. Taking out the nuclear capability is just a matter of when…

The Israelis will have a busy day when it happens…
Exile Opposition: Iran Hiding Another Nuke Site
Mon October 13, 2003 11:49 AM ET

By Louis Charbonneau
VIENNA (Reuters) - An Iranian opposition group that has provided accurate information about undeclared nuclear facilities in Iran in the past said on Monday that Tehran has been hiding another nuclear facility from U.N. inspectors.

“We have information about another secret nuclear facility in Iran,” an official from the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), an exiled opposition group, told Reuters. The official gave no details about the site, but said the NCRI would provide full details on Tuesday.

In an emailed statement, the NCRI also said it would provide information on Iran’s use of foreign technology in its atomic program, as well as details about the Kalaye Electric Co., where U.N. inspectors found traces of weapons-grade uranium.

The U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) declined to comment on the NCRI allegation, though it said it would closely study any information the exiles released about Iran’s nuclear plans.

“We have no official comment on this report, although we analyze all sources of information very carefully,” IAEA spokesman Mark Gwozdecky said.

In August 2002, the NCRI broke the news of two undeclared nuclear sites in Iran – a massive uranium-enrichment complex at Natanz and a heavy-water production facility at Arak.

Tehran later declared these facilities to the IAEA, which has placed surveillance cameras at Natanz to ensure that no undeclared nuclear activities take place there.

In addition to the uranium found at Kalaye, the IAEA found traces of weapons-grade enriched uranium at Natanz, fueling fears that Iran has been secretly purifying uranium for use in an atomic bomb.

Tehran denies it secretly enriched uranium and blamed the traces on contaminated machinery purchased abroad in the 1980s.

The NCRI is a coalition of exiled opposition groups and sees itself as a potential replacement for Islamic rule in Iran. But the State Department lists the NCRI and its armed wing, the People’s Mujahideen, as a terrorist organization.

In August, the U.S. government shut down the NCRI’s Washington offices after determining it was not distinct from the Mujahideen which was backed by former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

Last month the governing board of the IAEA gave Iran until October 31 to prove it is not diverting nuclear resources to a secret weapons program, as the United States alleges, or face sanctions by the U.N. Security Council.

IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei has been invited to Tehran on Thursday, though an agency spokeswoman said he had not decided yet whether he would accept.
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3604236

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
The US has had Stealth technology for 15 years. Any bets on when Israel develops it?

Israel would be foolish to let the reactors go into full operation. Taking out the nuclear capability is just a matter of when....

The Israelis will have a busy day when it happens.....

[/QUOTE]

OG, simple question: Does the soverignty of a nation mean anything to you?

These are the reasons why many Muslims go fundo and start taking out targets in the US/Israel:

  • The double standards of the US towards Israel.
  • The fact that the US govt (in hypocrisy) talks about stopping the nuke proliferation when it was the first and only nation to use the bomb.
  • Lying about the Israeli nuclear/defense capabilities, while pressuring Iran/Iraq and others to submit to humiliating inspections.

See the sad thing is: People like you and others may howl and cry if a civilian target was taken out like the WTC but could care less if X Middle Eastern nation is attacked..do you think it is nice being attacked? If so, how about you move down to NYC from your podunk hickland and face the NEXT attack!

It sickens me to see hwakish barbarians Fundo Americans, Muslims, and Israelis...may you all burn in hell together..Dante's Inferno style :D

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^ Lets here u reply to this article:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=4313

There is an old joke about a man who goes to the doctor with a running nose (this was before the era of nasal decongestants). The doctor tells him to dress lightly and walk a few hours in the rain. The bewildered patient presses for an explanation, and the doctor adds, “I cannot treat a running nose, but if you get pneumonia – then I can give you antibiotics.”

The meaning of Israel’s attack on Syria is that the government of Israel is taking the same route as that doctor. Unable to repress the Palestinian struggle for liberation, Israel is now trying to transform it into a regional war, for which its army is better equipped. That spells more disaster for the whole Middle East, including Israel.

On Saturday, October 4, Hanadi Jaradat, 29, blew herself up in a restaurant in Haifa, killing 20 people including herself. American media, as usual, reported Jaradat’s act without context. But Jaradat, a law school graduate, was reportedly avenging the death of her brother and cousin, murdered on June 12 in Jenin by Israeli death squads, who, according to LAW Society, apparently shot them after taking them into custody.

No doubt, they, too, were butchered in retaliation for something, perhaps the suicide attack in Jerusalem on June 11, which itself was a retaliation against Israel’s attempt to murder Hamas spokesperson Rantisi, which was a response to the joint Palestinian attack on the Erez checkpoint on June 8 (involving no targeting of civilians), which itself was triggered by the continuing killing of Hamas activists, even as Abu Mazen was posing for the camera together with Bush and Sharon.

There is no evidence that Israel’s policy of assassination, even beyond the inconvenience of being a form of state terrorism, is achieving a reduction in Palestinian violence. On the contrary, the only success that can be reasonably attributed to this policy is Israel’s repeated success in sabotaging cease-fires and insuring a continuation of the intifada. But, as if the logic of retaliation were not illogical enough, Israel responded to Jaradat’s revenge by stretching the concept well beyond the border of the absurd, attacking a civilian target in Syria – a Palestinian refugee camp in Ein Saheb.

What more is needed to show that Israel’s “defense” policies are nothing but international terrorism? Let’s be clear. First, Israel attacked another country without provocation. Second, Israel attacked a civilian target in that other country. Third, even by Israel’s own admission, the target had no direct connection to the suicide attack on Saturday, and no direct connection to any future attack. It was clearly not an act of self-defense.

But Israel’s madness has a context, too. Within the worldview of Israel’s military junta, every problem has a military solution, and every problem that doesn’t seem to have a military solution can be transformed into one that does.

It seems obvious to most observers that Israel has no military solution to Palestinian violence. The junta refuses to contemplate a political solution, which requires a measure of justice and the ability to compromise over land. Palestinian violence continues and the impotence of killing one more “senior Hamas operative” was becoming evident even to Israelis. The Israeli public is growing disillusioned with Sharon’s government, which has just suffered two severe shocks. First, the government’s plan to get rid of Arafat ended in humiliation; it was declared illegal and unacceptable by the U.N. Second, the government was stunned by the first organized letter of protest written by conscientious objectors within the Israeli Air Force, up until this month a bastion of conformism.

The background for the decision to attack Syria is therefore Sharon’s beleaguered position and absence of options. By attacking Syria, Israel’s junta is hoping at the least to frighten the world, including the U.S. and Europe, and “punish” it for daring to impose limits on its use of force. The message is that Israel will react to international pressure by causing greater instability throughout the Middle East. In considering this strategy of blackmail and its ramifications, one should remember that Israel is a nuclear power that has already used threats of nuclear war to blackmail the U.S. (in 1973, as the New York Times, by “happy” coincidence, has just confirmed, http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/06/opinion/06COHE.html. A second “benefit” of the attack is that it can potentially push forward the confrontation between the U.S. and Syria, and possibly Iran. The war in Iraq has raised new hopes for getting the U.S. embroiled in war in Syria and Iran. While the U.S. is acting toward these countries with belligerence for reasons of its own, Israel is impatient. From Israel’s perspective, the U.S. needs prodding to act sooner rather than later.

Finally, the attack on Syria has a serious potential to lead to a regional war, which, compared with the unwinnable intifada, would give Israel a chance to maximize the strength of its army and perhaps win – or so the Israeli junta hopes – another reprieve from the Palestinian problem.

This importance of the last point needs to be assessed in light of the fact that Israel has used war before to defuse international pressure and avoid tackling the question of Palestinian rights. In 1956, war with Egypt put the lid on international pressure on Israel to compromise. The 1967 war was concocted just as the Palestinians were beginning to organize politically and pan-Arabism was threatening to give them international bargaining power. The 1982 war was a direct response to the danger of peace negotiations with the PLO.

Moreover, all these wars began with unprovoked and unjustified Israeli attacks on its neighboring countries – in Gaza (at the time in Egyptian hands) in 1955, in Samu (Jordan) in 1966, and in Beirut (Lebanon) in 1982. This pattern, of Israeli military provocations that create conditions for a full Israeli attack, masquerading as “preventive,” is well established. It is part of the personal memory of the current Israeli leadership (Sharon, for example, was the commander of the Gaza raid, and the architect of the Lebanon war).

Israel’s strategy of escalation is based on a good insight – that the Israeli army is best and most successful in open war. Israel has indeed won all its wars, and is likely to win the next one, too. Yet with each “victorious” war, Israel in fact grew weaker, and the justice of the Palestinian cause more obvious. The next war is unlikely to change that pattern.

*Gabriel Ash was born in Romania and grew up in Israel. He lives in the United States.

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"See the sad thing is: People like you and others may howl and cry if a civilian target was taken out like the WTC but could care less if X Middle Eastern nation is attacked..do you think it is nice being attacked? If so, how about you move down to NYC from your podunk hickland and face the NEXT attack!

It sickens me to see hwakish barbarians Fundo Americans, Muslims, and Israelis...may you all burn in hell together..Dante's Inferno style "

Dude, chill out. I lost three friends in WTC, all bond analysts that I worked with when my company went public and issued debt. That's why I ended up at Gupshup to discuss issues with Muslims. Please do not assume you know anything about the person you are talking to based on a Gupshup nick name. I have not lived in Ohio for 23 years.

I did not pass judgement on an attack on Iran, just mentioned that Israel has all the reason in the world to do it. Given the number of times Israel has fought the Arab world, and the failure of the current peace process I would not be suprised at a bombing attack any day.....

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*Israel has all the reason in the world to do it. Given the number of times Israel has fought the Arab world *

calling iranians a part of the arab world is like calling US a part of latin america (well florida and california are kinda headed that way, but still)

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Fraudia,

The first Iranian Nuclear tipped Missle, where do you think it will be aimed?

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Its impossible to tip harpoons with nukes, its impossible to alter dolphin class subs to be able to launch those things. It can't be done.

I am sure Israel has a plan for Iran but not that.

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It is natural to assume that Israel will try something like that. It is equally natural to assume that Iran should have enough of defense mechanisms to defend their nuclear facilities/assets. 1981 was a clear message that those countries who can't protect 'em, shouldn't develop/rely on nuclear weapons.

The point is, even before a country decides to develop nuclear weapons, they should figure out how they will defend it. There is no point creating a hooplah about going nuclear when you can't protect them, in the first place.

A few years ago, before '98 even, I was present when Dr AQ Khan gave a very private informal chat, in which he gave some glimpses of the security procedures employed around Kahuta. This included, among many other things the geographic terrain which is a deep valley, balloons, anti-aircraft weaponery and the alertness of the PAF sqaurdons responsible for safeguarding the skies around Kahuta. It is clear that Kahuta is still intact, though, there is no lack of effort by our enemies to destroy it, but by the security apparatus protecting it which is a-1. I am sure, since '98 these security arrangement have been further strenghtened to make sure we are not relying on UN or resolutions condemning Israel/India to safeguard our vital assets.

If Iran doesn't have similar arrangements, they really have no business developing any nuclear weapons, in the first place. Let Israel try its hands. Obviously UN/US are not going to stop Israel from doing whatever it wants, so its best for Iran/Pakistan to defend their own nuclear assets.

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**
Dude, chill out. I lost three friends in WTC, all bond analysts that I worked with when my company went public and issued debt. That's why I ended up at Gupshup to discuss issues with Muslims. Please do not assume you know anything about the person you are talking to based on a Gupshup nick name. I have not lived in Ohio for 23 years.
**

OG, that response is like when some racist politician says "I have many black friends." You are certainly welcome here to discuss issues, but don't tell me that the Iranians or anyone else from the ME deserves to be attacked, because it is clear to my mind that the US didn't deserve it either. Many good people are lost by the actions of fundos, and by fundos I don't just mean Muslims. Isreal attacking Iran or the US doing something similar isn't going to solve anything..lets start with taking out the crazies first.
**
I did not pass judgement on an attack on Iran, just mentioned that Israel has all the reason in the world to do it. Given the number of times Israel has fought the Arab world, and the failure of the current peace process I would not be suprised at a bombing attack any day..... **

So by those terms, hasn't Isreal foght with the Arabs, the Palestinians and the recent Syrian aggression? Your doing nothing but feeding to the hate by that argument-- an argument that the Muslim extremists use as well..If you read the justifications THEY have used to attack Isreal/the US, it is virtually the flip of the coin to what you have presented as justification.

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Some of the comments from the Israeli lovers are just plain amusing. Well, it can be expected from people intoxicated from their self belief that their way and life is the only way. Infact, reality is that U.S. and its proxy Israel, basically want power and control over the entire Middle East. Israel wants more land, while the U.S. wants the precious oil that makes the U.S. what it is. Standing in their way are the un-educated, technologically challenged, dis-organized countries of the Middle East. It suits America and Israel that things stay this way. Now if any one of these countries starts to change the status quo, well that would be a problem.

Bottom line, Iran has just as much right as the U.S. or Israel to possess nuclear weapons. If it scares some people in the U.S. or Israel, well boo hoo. A nuclear armed Middle East will stop the imperialism of Israel and U.S. in the Middle East and force all parties to think about their children instead of land or oil.

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iam getting tired at hou ppl speak out of their head without any logic. dose that make any sense to say that nukes make u safe?.then what have u learnt from US n USSR from the cold war. there is no country in this world that can survive without giving its ppl food n life.it doesnt make any sense that u should go for nukes when millions in ur country die of hunger. the way india n pakistan have gone does no good to both countries.instead of letting ur ire out on ur preceived enemies think what u can really do to save the planet for ur future generations

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It must be remembered that there is one critical difference between bombing the Iraqi reactor in 1983 (and Damascus last week) and any future plan to bomb an Iranian reactor.

Israel and Iraq were still at war in 1983 - and, in fact, Israel and Iraq at still legally at war today. There has never been any kind of treaty between the two countries ending the war of 1948.

Similarly, Israel and Syria are still at war, because the war of 1948 has not been ended between those two countries. hence the lack of real international acton after Israel bombed Damascus.

Israel and Iran, however, are not at war, and in fact have never been at war. If Israel attacks Iran, it will be creation of a new state of war. More to the point, Iran is likely to retaliate with its own ballistic missiles at Israel’s nuclear reactor near Dimona - and I doubt that Israel is willing to risk the radioactive fallout of a direct hit on a functional nuclear site should its Arrow missiles fail to take down the incoming missile barrage.

An extra point to note is that Ali Shamkhani, the Iranian Defense minister, is on the record as having said 5 years ago that “We’ll certainly respond firmly to any Israeli attack or aggression in a manner more severe than one can imagine, and we have the capability. The most obvious, but only the minimum, is the Shahab-3.”

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Fraudia,

The first Iranian Nuclear tipped Missle, where do you think it will be aimed?
[/QUOTE]

does it matter where it is aimed? where do you think Israel's missiles are aimed? Burkina faso?

where are US missiles aimed? does that give any of those countries a right to just come and blow these facilities up because US "may" use it against them?

No country's leadership will be stupid enough to use nucelar weapons..well there is one exception, so let me rephrase there is no country's govt stupid enough to use nukes on another nuclear power..

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^ So fraudiya, with that insightful stateent are you suggesting that Truman was stupid to bomb Japan?

Israel has every right to take out these facilities. Iran should be worrying about trying to ensure that 60% of it's population that is below the age of 30 has enough jobs, rather than trying to take on Great Israel.

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"No country's leadership will be stupid enough to use nucelar weapons."

I think the thing that is worrysome is that old mores, standards and values that we all used to count on are being broken. Nukes are forever and frankly nobody trusts the existing regime in Iran, and the future stability is by no means assured.

In general though I'm with you. a sovereign nation should have the right to defend itself. A rogue regime could also commit nuclear blackmail, extort payments from smaller countries, or simply have a wave of nazi-like fantacism sweep over it, with less than logical leadership in power. Now tell me that every country in Africa should have a nuke. Rwanda would be radioactive. So, stable, responsible, moderate open and thoughtful countries can have advance weaponry. But if Iran can have nukes, why not Idi Amin, Charles Taylor, and every other petty tyrant? You have to draw a line, and in this case the line should be a very difficult hurdle.

Bottom line, I don't trust the leadership of Iran to act responsibly with their nukes. For most Americans that's the issue.

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I think if anyone is a danger with these weapons it's the chicken-hawks in the administration who'd wage wars at will..

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Don't be stupid PA, fatherly nations wage war for only good reasons, don't you be questioning them or it's squid for breakfast, lunch and dinner for you young man and no cigar!

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
^ So fraudiya, with that insightful stateent are you suggesting that Truman was stupid to bomb Japan?
[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Truman was more than stupid. Words can't even describe it. He should have been tried for war crimes. But unfortunately, only losers in the war were put on trial. Killing millions of civilians to achieve a victory in war; how different is that from Saddam or even Hitler.

[QUOTE]
Israel has every right to take out these facilities.
[/QUOTE]

How so? Is Israel's security more important than Iran? Jordan? Syria? Saudi Arabia? etc etc. How can you guarantee that Israel will not use its nukes to blackmail its neighbors or worse yet, use them in case it faces defeat in a conventional war? Remember, the largest and oldest democracy in the world decided to use them to win a war.

[QUOTE]
Iran should be worrying about trying to ensure that 60% of it's population that is below the age of 30 has enough jobs, rather than trying to take on Great Israel.
[/QUOTE]

If Iran had friends like the Israeli's; if its friends gave it billions of free dollars every year and a super-power guaranteed its sovereignty, sure Iran could transform into the next Japan. Heck with its large oil and gas reserves, young and energetic population, it could out do maybe even Japan. But, reality is much different, isn't it.

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Originally posted by Matsui: *
*^ So fraudiya, with that insightful stateent are you suggesting that Truman was stupid to bomb Japan? **

Stupid.. No, Bad judgement...maybe

There probably better targets than two cities full of civilians. and why Japan, why not one in japan and one in Germany..maybe cuz japan was "revenge" of pearl harbour. I dunno, and I have no interest in getting into political necessities.. we used weapons of mass destruction and killed countless innocent civilians..

I dont find it right.

*Israel has every right to take out these facilities. Iran should be worrying about trying to ensure that 60% of it's population that is below the age of 30 has enough jobs, rather than trying to take on Great Israel. *

And by that token syria has a right to take out Israel's facilities, after all Israel just lodged an attack in Syrian territory, not a hypothetical "it may attack" but an actual attack.

This cycle of lameness in middle east needs to end somehow. I suppose arabs and israelis could nuke each other to roach-land, I just dont want to deal with them. Their lives their choices..they have to live with their choices.