Re: Islamic jamaats
Please prove me wrong or absurd with arguments!
Re: Islamic jamaats
There is nothing to prove right or wrong, you are trying to say why TJ does not follow the Hijri Calender for their annual events.
***And why does that bother you?..
***
Re: Islamic jamaats
I agree.
Re: Islamic jamaats
yeah but when someone gives a talk its more of a one way communication. I feel that I gained more sitting in discussions where you can bring up any questions, they may not be top most on the list of the scholar but to you they may be a big issue, and you could ask and discuss, even if teh topic of discussion is in a specific area you could have your own questins that would help you understand. the tableeghis just really want you to shake head and agree that we are all appointed by god to spread his message and thus we are so critical and it is such a task and duty..thats really what they are about.
Re: Islamic jamaats
I know this is off-topic, but what about groups like Hizb ut Tahrir and al-Muhajiroon. Does anyone have any evidence to prove/disprove their methodologies?
Re: Islamic jamaats
I am not sure if I understood what you're talking about. What kind of questions would you like to ask them and discuss?
Re: Islamic jamaats
Its a very interesting discussion. But I can honestly claim that none of us (me first) is in a position to approve or disapprove any thing about these Jamats. If we look within our selves, enough corruption is there to start a reformation.
I would humbly request to let them do whatever they are doing and let us start to practice and spread the real lesson and teachings of Islam.
Peace be upon All.
Re: Islamic jamaats
evidence? errr common sense is evidence. if you just see those brainwashed automatons mouth off their nonsense you will need no evidence.
Mohajiroun is even funnier, their clown in chief split form HT, became this idiotic mouthpiece media whore, and then after 9/11 got scared ****less and officiallyclosed mohajiroin, then gets deported and was begging UK to help him escape from Lebanon during the war…
Re: Islamic jamaats
many many many questions, any questions whatever is on my mind
I mean someone sitting there to tell me what i should be doing is fairly useless ..
you shoul pray.. I do… silence
you should fast.. i do..silence
you should…
i mean what then. the most boring conversations I have had is with these guys, each time I see these guys I know exactly what they would say,
Re: Islamic jamaats
Mohajiroun is even funnier, their clown in chief split form HT, became this idiotic mouthpiece media whore, and then after 9/11 got scared ****less and officiallyclosed mohajiroin, then gets deported and was begging UK to help him escape from Lebanon during the war...
I agree with you on HT - the question is, how do you convince someone who has been brainwashed that they should reevaluate their position?
I do remember the split, and it was rather, ummm, interesting watching him beg to return to the UK.
Re: Islamic jamaats
amana
dialogue, discussion, challenge them, ask them to prove their point. I know 3 ppl who were HT or leaning that way and are no longer.
Re: Islamic jamaats
There is no shortage of scholars, alim, mufti, hafiz ul Quran, hafizul Hadith in the Tableeghi jamaat. During ramadan I attended lectures by Sheikh ul Hadith Maulana Palanpuri (wierd name) of India at Masjid Fatima in Queens, NY. I don't think they are just limited to ibadaat but rather implementation of sunnah in our daily lives. And yes they are like tape records but thats because they believe that our salvation only lies in obedience. One think I agree with you is that they are very closed minded.
Sorry Fallen for a delayed resonse.
To be frank i haven't been too much into Tanzeem-e-Islami, but who will codify the Islamic rulings into a workable constitution. Who will be Khalifa, how will he be elected, how long he can stay in office, what Fiqh will be the official Fiqh of state and why, what will be procedure to depose Khalifa if required. And to be frank i am not sure how clearly Islam itself delineates the system of governance. The system of Khilafat did not last long in Islamic history and even during Khilafat-e-Rashida was not uniform.
As for scholars in Tableeghi Jamat, sure they have many learned people, but by scholars i mean, people who can critically analyze problems of todays muslim in light of Islamic teachings. I think such scholars are lacking in TJ.
Re: Islamic jamaats
Its not a problem Icon. As they say, der aai durust aai. right?
Since you brought up the topic of Khilafat let me share what I have read and heard about it. I must say that although I and my entire family are of Hanafi fiqh, Imam Makki who is most probably a wahabi has influenced my thought process greatly. For those who do not know, Imam Makki is a scholar of Pakistani descent who lectures in Masjid Al Haram usually after Maghrib. Anyways, a Khalifah is picked not necessarily by the people but rather by those who learned and acknowledged by the people. This how the beloved Khulafa-e-Radshedeen were chosen. Hazart Abu Bakr, then Umar, Uthman, and then Ali (peace be upon them all) were all handpicked by the leading sahaba of the time. I know for a fact that after the martyrdom of Umar, a leading sahaba asked Ali that if he were picked as the khalifa then whom will he choose? Ali chose Uthman. This is just one way how khilafat can be bestowed upon a person, also by public voting, by choosing one among several leaders.
How long can khalifa remain in office? Is there a term limit? Well I don't think khalifa is a politician but an anti-politican. I wish I could quote you from a book the exact meaning of the word, not title, khalifa but am unable to find the book. However, Khalifa does not have a term limit. He can preside for as long as wants until his death or if he can no longer hold confidence of the people. Without going into much detail, the last few years of Uthman's turbulent khilafat are good example of what people could do to stip a khalifa of his post.
Though these questions are of great importance but they can be dismissed as trivial. Its more important to bring about a chance and then worry about khilafat term. Lastly, Khilafat did last all the way up to the first world war.
Now to TJ: I wholly disagree with you there. This jamaat has produced some of the finest scholars who can critically analyze every aspect of Islam.
Re: Islamic jamaats
Now to TJ: I wholly disagree with you there. This jamaat has produced some of the finest scholars who can critically analyze every aspect of Islam.
Dr Amjad comes to mind, He is a Medical Doctor who is fully invoved in the works of Tableegh, listened to his talk about Ayaat of the Holy Quran. His explanation really touched the heart.
Re: Islamic jamaats
There was a time i used to think that Islamic system of governance had been well defined and clear and can be readily placed into affect but gradually i am not too sure of this.
Firstly, the two MAIN sources of Islam, Quran and Hadeeth do not describe a detailed system of choosing/ deposig Khalifa. Hence the whatever the system used during Khilafat-e-Rashida and no matter how well (or otherwise) it worked is not based upon divine guidance. One may argue that the system was devised and applied by people who were well versed with Islam and trained under the holy Prophet saw and this arguments carries weight, but still it was not "as perfect" (IMHO) as other laws of Islam that were established into practice DURING lifetime of Prophet saw under divine guidance. Actually i came across this while reading an aricle, Hazrat Abu Bakr said
"If you expect to see me following precisely the same way taken by the Messenger (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), this is impossible. For the devil could not approach him. In addition, he would be revealed the Wahy from Heaven."
SECONDLY, looking at the Islamic Jamats today, i cannot beleive that they can agree on a single person to be a Khalifa. The amount of intolerance they show to each other is tremendous. Contemporary Islamic scholars agree more on dis-agreement than unity. It seems next to "impossible" that they can come up with a unified Islamic code.
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How long can khalifa remain in office? Is there a term limit? Well I don't think khalifa is a politician but an anti-politican. I wish I could quote you from a book the exact meaning of the word, not title, khalifa but am unable to find the book. However, Khalifa does not have a term limit. He can preside for as long as wants until his death or if he can no longer hold confidence of the people.
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At that time Arabs or world were accustomed to have a chief that wud be in office for lifetime. The only way depose off a ruler was by force. This is not an ideal way of doing it. It causes turbulence, fitna, disarray and loss of life. Its clear how much rift this Fitnah causes among Muslims during the time of Hazrat Uthman ra.
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Though these questions are of great importance but they can be dismissed as trivial. Its more important to bring about a chance and then worry about khilafat term
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Am afraid that we cannot be working to establish a system that we ourselves do not know well. If we do that then we will be just doing it by "hit and trial" method. One may argue that, thats the way all systems of government have evolved, BUT, all other systems are MAN MADE. Is we caim that we are gong to bring a system that is divine, then it shud be complete B4 it is applied.
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Lastly, Khilafat did last all the way up to the first world war.
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It wasn't really Khilafat, was it?
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Now to TJ: I wholly disagree with you there. This jamaat has produced some of the finest scholars who can critically analyze every aspect of Islam.
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May be i am not aware, do tell me who are they, i really want to know.
Re: Islamic jamaats
^ Sheikh Riyad-ul-Haq is one, there are many, but they try to be humble and stay away from all the "publicity".