All i can say is that, i hope we prosper and that our people open their eyes and understand that actions speak louder then words....
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And its even easier for you to sit in America and idealistically swoon every time you hear the name of Jinnah, thinking that everything's so rosy.
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Well i am a Pakistani living in Pakistan and have read quite alot on Jinnah, Neru Ji and Ghandi... And all i can say is that i have the greatest respect for Jinnah, he is my hero. He gave us Pakistan, i cant belive that there are those that wish to soil his reputation and accomplishments has sad and even worse they are those so called "Pakistani's" who sit in the States/UK and other westen "Democratic"countires and live like third rate citizens yet have the cheek to scoff at Pakistan...
Its easier to critisise then to assist.. If your so bothered about Pakistan then why not come and do somthing about it rahter then shooting your mouth at every chance you get.
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^ Pure emotion. When you want to talk rationally, then we'll chat.
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^ What else did you expect when you come on a Pakistani forum and say (Jinnah) "was an opportunist who had little belief in the Pakistan idea". If you had said this on an Indian board, you would get pats on the back and may be a lollypop too. You are, therefore, better off not answering anything but just avoiding the issue now.
Its a difference in perspective. For many Indians, Jinnah is the one who divided India - and for most Pakistanis he is the one who got the muslims of the sub-continent a separate homeland. Same thing, different ways of looking at it. Which ever way you look at it, he achieved what he set out to achieve. You take your pick. :-)
Thanks Faisal :k:
As for your post, im not one for much chatting i prefer actions to words yet i am not one who underestimates the power of words, as for rational discussion.. Well frankly after reading your post i dont belive there is anything to chat about… Now why dont you go and badmouth the Quiad somewhere else…
Good Bye…
I wanted to wait for things to cool down, but couldn't wait any longer.
I don't hate Jinnah, even though I am from India. I belong to the school of democratic thought that say that you should respect your opponents as well. All said and done, he was a leader for a large chunk of people @ 1947. But then again, the best of the leaders, in public life, should be discussed and criticised if required. No holy cows.
Just a different perspective though.
A leader uses emotion, more often than reason, and more successfully. That is what Jinnah did as well.
He didn't seem to think of Pakistan as a land of Islam, but a land for muslims, if you see the difference. Though Faisal says, "(to) permit muslims to live their lives in accordance with the Islamic way of their chosing without having to deal with a hindu majority", there never was any danger on that count, not even now. There, hypothetically, could have been an issue with 'political power'.
The muslim majority areas already had that power and that could be a reason why they were not extremely keen on a separate state. Muslims in other areas, where they were in a minority, feared this 'lack of power' and they were more keen on Pakistan. Jinnah, played on this fear. (I would have done so as well, if I were him :) )
The most charitable view, from an Indian perspective, could be that pre-partition muslims didn't appreciate the workings of a democracy (can't blame them though, it was for the leaders to guide them). Elections are won or lost not beacuse of the big chunk of people, but because of the marginal ones.
Muslims in India, can tip the balance all the time. That's why we saw even the BJP having to know-tow now; the congress had done that in the past. In a bigger India, with some 20% of the seats completely in muslim hands and they deciding the fate of the rest of the parliamentary seats, muslims could have been sharing power, if not dominating, over 1.4 bn people. Some peoples' desire of 'From Malaysia to Morroco (or wherever!)' would have been closer to reality.
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*Originally posted by cscraja: *
I wanted to wait for things to cool down, but couldn't wait any longer.
I don't hate Jinnah, even though I am from India. I belong to the school of democratic thought that say that you should respect your opponents as well. All said and done, he was a leader for a large chunk of people @ 1947. But then again, the best of the leaders, in public life, should be discussed and criticised if required. No holy cows.
Just a different perspective though.
A leader uses emotion, more often than reason, and more successfully. That is what Jinnah did as well.
He didn't seem to think of Pakistan as a land of Islam, but a land for muslims, if you see the difference. Though Faisal says, "(to) permit muslims to live their lives in accordance with the Islamic way of their chosing without having to deal with a hindu majority", there never was any danger on that count, not even now. There, hypothetically, could have been an issue with 'political power'.
The muslim majority areas already had that power and that could be a reason why they were not extremely keen on a separate state. Muslims in other areas, where they were in a minority, feared this 'lack of power' and they were more keen on Pakistan. Jinnah, played on this fear. (I would have done so as well, if I were him :) )
The most charitable view, from an Indian perspective, could be that pre-partition muslims didn't appreciate the workings of a democracy (can't blame them though, it was for the leaders to guide them). Elections are won or lost not beacuse of the big chunk of people, but because of the marginal ones.
Muslims in India, can tip the balance all the time. That's why we saw even the BJP having to know-tow now; the congress had done that in the past. In a bigger India, with some 20% of the seats completely in muslim hands and they deciding the fate of the rest of the parliamentary seats, muslims could have been sharing power, if not dominating, over 1.4 bn people. Some peoples' desire of 'From Malaysia to Morroco (or wherever!)' would have been closer to reality.
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Read Jinnah the creator of Pakistan by Hector Bolitho, for a full acoount on the problems faced by M.A.Jinnah the struggle of the Indian muslims to gain recognition.
:)