Re: is it true?
can nikkah also happen if one utters in ghussa with or without niyyat?
Re: is it true?
I think you are just debating for the heck of it, unless you are trying to prove something here. The answer is yes, if other conditions are fulfilled. You have to say yes 3 time in front of two male, muslim, aqil, baaligh witnesses. Now you do it with or without niyat does not matter cause you did it 3 times. anyways its hard to do something 3 times without the intention of doing it.
Re: is it true?
well....there was 'trying to prove something else in it'....but i would end that here....that would be like may be offtopic..but here it is
From my understanding ( may or may not be true)..the general concept that if you utter 'talaaq' three times (no matter whether your insane,sleepy,drugged or anything) your talaq happens....is not correct..
just like nikah has to be something proper with sound mind 'hosh-o-hawaas'...so is talaaq...
also heard some scholars say...and studying the relevant verses in the Quran......the utterance of talaq 3 times does not mean you have given the 3 talaqs.......3 talaaqs are 3 distinct events at 3 different points of time...with atleast an 'iddat' in between them...
so....for example....if u say talaq hundred times on day 1.......it will be one talaq after which you can do the 'rujoo'/reconcile after the iddat period..
and then if things don't work out you give another talaaq (doesn't matter you say it once or 1000times)...this will be second time...and you can reconcile after the iddat period...
and if the things don't still workout...only then the last/final 3rd talaaq occurs after which you can't reconcile...
so in short..talaaq is a process......just not uttering 3 words randomly.....similarly i think a person uttering something when he is out of his mind can't be held....
just my views...
anyways...enough for this....talaaq discussion is another topic
Re: is it true?
I agree with both of your points. If you are drugged or temporary insane (real medical issue, not insane because of ghussa) then yes, talaq is questionable, but we still need to check with scholars.
Talaq, 3 times at once or 3 times in 3 different times is an issue between different school of thoughts so yes, it maybe true. Wallah Aalam.
Re: is it true?
exactly that. as simple as that.
Mirch, have you seen threads like 'I hate islam' or 'I wish I was not a muslim' .. .I am talking about those kind of things. You have to do shahahda again and if you are married, you have to do nikah again.
But but but you said unknowingly, these guys are typing it so they are not saying it unknowingly.
I was presuming that you were talking about average person. Saying or doing things unknowingly which can get them out of fold of Islam , if they said those things knowingly.
Re: is it true?
But but but you said unknowingly, these guys are typing it so they are not saying it unknowingly. I was presuming that you were talking about average person. Saying or doing things unknowingly which can get them out of fold of Islam , if they said those things knowingly.
I meant unintentionally, that is without the intention of becoming a non-muslim, one can say or do something that could make him non-muslim
Re: is it true?
I meant unintentionally, that is without the intention of becoming a non-muslim, one can say or do something that could make him non-muslim
I know you and I would not say something like that ,so we are good and do not have to do a tajdeed a nikah. :D
Re: is it true?
There is another way that a nikah can automatically become void and that is if girl or the boy is forced into that nikah. There is a hadith in Bukhari that a girl came to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and said that her father had forced her into nikah with a man she did not want to marry. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) simply said that she can remarry her nikah was void. This very important matter of willingness by the both partners is overlooked by the parents in "forced marriages" which makes the nikah fasiq resulting in a very dangerous situation where the two people are in a relation without a nikah!!!
i didn't know about that if u r forced ur nikkah becomes void....thnx for the info
Re: is it true?
You are welcome! Here is the original Hadith from Bukhari.
[QUOTE]
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 69:
Narrated Khansa bint Khidam Al-Ansariya:
that her father gave her in marriage when she was a matron and she disliked that marriage. So she went to Allah's Apostle and he declared that marriage invalid.
[/QUOTE]
Re: is it true?
Molvis fatwa aside, it is receommnded by scholars that we all should renew our nikah every 2-3 years cause unknowingly we do or say stuff that may put us outside the dairaa of islaam. Great advice in my opinion.
Brother, I think that whoever recommends renewal of nikah are not scholars (at least scholars of Islam).
First of all, no Muslim goes out of dairaa-e-Islam until and unless that Muslim declares (confesses) that he/she has left Islam openly in front of all, and that he means it. After that confession, making his confession as basis, other Muslim would have right to consider that person non-Muslim.
Reason: When it comes to faith, Allah judges a person’s Iman (belief) on basis of what that person has in his heart. Allah also judges actions of a person on his intention. This way of judgment is prerogative of Allah alone. Allah has not given ability to humans that they can see what is there in someone’s heart nor could know intentions behind someone’s actions.
Thus, a human may try to guess what is there in someone's heart or try to speculate about intention of someone regarding their actions, but ... no human can judge someone's faith on what that person has in his heart or on intention behind a person’s action. If someone does that (judges someone's faith on guess or speculation), than that person is Kafir, as only kafir tries to believe that they are God and can do what is prerogative of Allah alone.
Allah has made Muslims to judge faith of others on their confessions alone and apply all worldly laws regarding someone’s faith on that person’s confession.
[Prophet (SAW) knew people who were Munafiqs and their faith, as Allah has revealed to him (SAW) theirs identities, but even then, Prophet (SAW) treated them as Muslims according to their confessions even when Allah kept warning Munafiqs in Quran, as that is what Allah demands from Muslim, that to treat other humans on their confessions and Munafiqs use to confess that they are Muslims. As for Muslims (or other humans), they do not even have luxury to get told by Allah of someone’s faith, still when they start judging them, they surely leave fold of Islam].
If any Muslim starts judging another Muslim's faith on anything other than confession than that Muslim becomes Kharjee and thus leaves fold of Islam. This happens because that so-called Muslim (or Kharjee) when making definite judgment of a Muslim’s faith declaring that Muslim 'Kafir' on basis of own understanding of Islam, judging Muslim on basis of intention behind their actions, or judging after making assumption of other Muslim's beliefs, then they try to take up role of Allah what is prerogative of Allah alone, and thus leave Islam (become Kafir). Once someone starts doing that openly, does takfeer on basis of own assumptions, guesses, speculations, judgments, or beliefs, (and not on confession), than other Muslims can consider such person as Kharjee.
[Note: It is not takfeer when a Muslim considers or calls non-Muslim ‘Kafir’, as that is done on basis of confession by non-Muslim that he/she is not Muslim. Takfeer is when a Muslim considers or calls a Muslim (or a person who claims that he/she is Muslim) ‘Kafir’.]
Secondly, in Islam Nikah is 'contract of marriage' and that never becomes voids in any circumstance, and thus it only ends when one or another party in 'contract of Nikah' ends the Nikah intentionally. If that would not have been the case in Islam regarding Nikah then it would have meant Islam spreads ‘Zina without knowledge of Zanis’ and produces ‘illegitimate kids without knowledge of parents’.
Re: is it true?
^^ Cont ...:**
As for Nikah (between Muslim and non-Muslim), marriage becoming void, and Islam (according to what I know):**
Marriage is contract between two humans and Islam recognises marriage regardless of what laws that contract of marriage is made. Once marriage contract is made, there could be no automatic void of marriage in Islam. To end such marriage, divorce or Khulla is required. Here are cases:
Case one: If marriage contract was made between two non-Muslims than that contract of marriage stays (does not become null and void) even when one of the partners become Muslim. Anyhow, this change of faith could become cause of divorce or Khulla, still one partner has to initiate breaking up of marriage contract after fulfilling any requirement of breaking the marriage contract,
Case two: If marriage contract is made between two Muslims and later if one becomes non-Muslim, still same rules apply. Marriage contract stays (does not become null and void) until one or other initiates ending the marriage using that change of faith as an excuse. All requirements needed to break marriage contract would stay valid. That is, if divorce is required than that could happen after paying Mahr (if not already paid). If Khula is required than Mahr has to be returned (if mahr is already paid).
Case three: If Muslim marries non-Muslim (Christian, Jew or anyone else) than that could happen if both would fulfil marriage requirements of their faith (or simply accept their marriage contract in front of witnesses for marriage to become valid). In this case also, if divorce or Khulla is required then condition of contract has to get fulfilled. [Note: Allah forbids Muslims from marrying Mushriks, though such marriage can happen and if that happens than though marriage would stay, such marriage would be considered sin of the Muslim that married Mushrik].
Even though above is well known Muslim laws (that only Kharjees may not accept), just to give few examples:
Hazrat Assia (RA) wife of Fraun was believer but her husband was Kafir. Still, marriage is valid.
Hazrat Lut (AS) was Prophet but his wife was unbeliever, still marriage is valid.
Prophet (SAW) two believing daughters [Kulsum (RA) and Ruqaya (RA)] were married to unbeliever sons of Abu-Lahab. They did not give their husband Khulla but stayed in that marriage. It was after Surah Lahab (that was few years before hijrah, after surah Lahab was revealed) sons of Abu-Lahab gave them divorce.
Prophet (SAW) daughter Zainab (RA) a believer was married to Abul-Ass, her cousin, who was unbeliever. Both stayed in Mecca. Marriage stayed and she got two kids from him (she conceived both kids as believer when her husband was unbeliever). Later, Abul-Ass became prisoner of war in Badr (2 Hijri). He was released on condition that he let her come to Madina with kids and she thus migrated to Madina with children (around 14 years after marriage). While in Madina, she still did not end her marriage and waited for Abul-Ass to join her. Eventually, he became Muslim and joined her just before fatah-e-Mecca (around 5 to 6 years after her migration to Madina in around 7 or 8 Hijri). So, here is story of a believer in wedlock with an unbeliever for long period of time and stayed in marriage until death.
So, you might ask, when marriage between believes and unbelievers became unlawful? Here is story and ayah:
Ayah (60:10) that was revealed around 7 or 8 Hijri, when after treaty of Hudaybia (Zul-Hajja 6 H) married Muslim women from Kuffar area took refuge with Muslims. Anyhow the ayah itself is clear that marriage does not end itself (marriage does not become void) but for marriage to end, divorce or khulla is necessary.
Surah 60, ayah 10: YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them. But hold not to the guardianship of unbelieving women: ask for what ye have spent on their dowers, and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of women who come over to you). Such is the command of Allah: He judges (with justice) between you. And Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.
Note: Ayah 60:10 talks about women who want to leave their Kafir Husbands and stay with Muslims, as that is why they left their Kafir Husbands and took refuge with Muslims. As the subject of Ayah is regarding women leaving their kafir Husband and taking refuge with Muslims, they showed desire that they do not want to live with their Kafir husband, and thus become unlawful for their kafir husband, so Khulla should be granted. Ayah directs Muslims to end such marriage of refugee believing women with an unbeliever husband, by initiating Khulla, that is pay unbeliever husband their dower (Mahr), a requirement of Khulla. Above ayah also clearly mentions that, after payment of dower (Mehar) to unbeliever husband, or after Khulla, Muslims can marry these women.
Note: Since above ayah also mentions that: ‘They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them’, this can be taken as general rule, and thus Muslims are of opinion that Marriage of Muslims with Kafirs (rather Mushrik) are not lawful.
This belief gets confirmed from ayah (surah 5, ayah 5 ... revealed around 7 Hijri) where it is mentioned that virtuous women of believers as well as those who received scriptures before Islam are lawful. Even though opinion of many Muslims is that people who received scripture are ahl-e-Kitab and that ahl-e-Kitab are only Jews, Christians, and Muslims, that is an opinion. According to Quran, Allah has sent prophets and guidance in every nation, and thus one should include every nation as ahl-e-Kitab. Only thing is that, people who are supposed to be ahl-e-Kitab started doing Shrik and thus lose being virtuous or status of ahl-e-kitab, and thus marriage with them becomes unlawful. So, only lawful for marriages are those who are virtuous and do not do shirk (are not Mushrik). On this pretext, many Muslims are of opinion that marriage with Christians who confess that they literally believe ‘Jesus as son of God’ is not allowed, as these people are Mushrik.
[So, to be safe from sin, it is advisable for Muslim who marries Christian that they ask theirs would be partner before marriage that if theirs would-be partner literally believe on Jesus as 'begotten' son of God what they claim or believe Jesus as son of God in metaphorical term].
Regardless, if contract of marriage happened, then that contract of marriage stays valid and does not become void itself. It is just like interest is haram (unlawful). Anyhow, if one makes contract at the time of borrowing that they would pay interest then that contract stays valid and interest has to be paid because loan is taken on such contract. Same is to do with all contracts in Islam, that is, if contract is made, then that contract has to be fulfilled if that can be fulfilled.
[Recently known and famous marriage of a Muslim with non-Muslim what I remember is of Mughal Emperor Akbar marriage to Jodhaa Bai, a Rajput Hindu princess. Their son, Jahengir ruled as Mughal Emperor after death of Akbar].
Now coming to marriage of Matron ... and why that supposed marriage mentioned in hadith (volume 7, Book 62, Number 69) became void:
Marriage became void because it was not marriage in first place. Reason is that, father had no authority to give her (a Matron) in marriage without her verbal consent. Since father had no authority, father could not have given her in marriage and make contract on her behalf, and thus even though father had given her in marriage (made contract of marriage on her behalf), that marriage never happened. It is just like, someone sells a neighbour's house without even neighbour’s consent, so in this condition, such sale would be void, as seller had no authority to sell the house.
Why that was the case?
Here is the reason:
Father of a virgin girl (or a girl that was never married) can give her in marriage to any suitable person he likes, though consent is required, anyhow, silence of a virgin girl can be taken as her consent. That means, father has authority to make contract of marriage on behalf of his virgin (never married) girl.
On the other hand, father of a Matron (someone who is divorced or widow) cannot give her in marriage to anyone he likes. Father has to consult her before marriage and her silence is not considered as her consent. In other words, father does not have authority to make contract of marriage on behalf of Matron without her consent and if he does that then marriage contract is not made. Since, case mentioned in hadith was about Matron whose father made contract of marriage on her behalf without her consent, marriage did not took place, thus that contract became void.
Re: is it true?
Molvis fatwa aside, it is receommnded by scholars that we all should renew our nikah every 2-3 years cause unknowingly we do or say stuff that may put us outside the dairaa of islaam. Great advice in my opinion.
Now I know why people celebrate 'nikkah anniversary' :D
Re: is it true?
How do you renew your nikkah? Read the nikkah again?