Iraqi women, children die as U.S. troops hit car / civilian casualties mount (merged)

myvoice, US soldiers dying there has nothing to do with the topic on hand. Let me remind you US waged war on Iraq; Iraq did not commit any hostility against US. This is war, soldiers die in wars. When supposedly smart bombs start killing the civilians than you have to question the people who deploy these smart bombs. Please spare us teh old rhetoric of Saddam's torture and such. Every one knows that, plus everyone knew that if you were against the regime you will be punished. Unlike the coalition forces who promise to be your friends, liberators but are actually there to stake claim to the land and oil.

kaleem

Coalition forces murder 11 members of same family.

At least 11 members of the same family - mostly children - have been killed in a coalition air strike on a residential district in central Iraq.

Just imagine what would have happened if these coalition forces were aggressors rather than liberators?

At least 11 members of the same family - mostly children - have been killed in a coalition air strike on a residential district in central Iraq, western news reports say.
Hospital sources in Hilla, about 80 kilometres (50 miles) south of Baghdad, said they were among 33 civilians killed and more than 300 injured in the attack early on Tuesday morning.

US Central Command said preliminary investigation had not “turned up any evidence of this alleged incident”, but officials were continuing to look into it.

On Monday, US soldiers killed seven Iraqi women and children at a checkpoint near the southern city of Najaf.

US commanders are also investigating the Najaf killing, but their first reaction was to back the troops.

Correspondents say the incidents will increase criticism of US-led troops who are continuing their advance towards Baghdad, in the face of stiff Iraqi resistance.

Intelligence reports suggest that Iraq’s elite Republican Guard has moved to reinforce its two most forward divisions south of the capital Baghdad as they come under more intense bombardment

Iraq says its forces have foiled a “landing attempt” by British forces near the northern city of Mosul. UK officials will neither confirm nor deny the incident

The US says it has seized an Iraqi general, who has provided information on Iraqi deployments

UK forces say their positions in southern Iraq have come under attack from short-range missiles - the first time Iraqi missiles have been aimed at targets inside Iraq rather than Kuwait.

Revenge call

The attack near Hilla began on Monday as part of the US-led advance towards Baghdad.

US forces said many Iraqis and at least one American were killed in fierce fighting there - the closest the clashes have been to the capital.

Hilla hospital director Murtada Abbas said the bombing had targeted the Nader residential area.

Correspondents reported seeing children wrapped in blankets on the floor of the hospital.

Among them was Razek al-Kazem al-Khafaji, who said he had lost his wife, six children, his father, his mother, and two brothers.

He said the family was fleeing fierce fighting in Nasiriya, further south, when they were attacked.

“God take our revenge on America,” he was reported as saying.

Referring to the incident at a news briefing in Baghdad, Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf accused coalition forces of being “racist”.

“They are indiscriminately killing people,” Mr al-Sahaf said. “Hilla is my hometown. It is a civilian place.”

Checkpoint

Human rights group Amnesty International has called on US authorities to conduct an independent and thorough investigation of the Najaf incident.

However, US officials have backed the soldiers involved.

“Our soldiers on the ground have an absolute right to defend themselves,” General Peter Pace, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said.

The BBC’s Peter Hunt says the jittery nature of troops on the ground has been heightened by the deaths of four American soldiers on Saturday in a suicide car bomb attack.

This has been reinforced by a report of US marines killing an Iraqi who drove at speed at their checkpoint outside the southern town of Shatra, north of Nasiriya, on Tuesday.

Taken together, our correspondent says, these incidents might hamper efforts by the US-led troops to build a relationship of trust with Iraqi civilians they encounter, as they could create an impression of a force which shoots first and asks questions later.

Last Wednesday, a huge explosion which caused a large number of civilian deaths in a Baghdad shopping area.

UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said it was “increasingly probable” that it was the result of Iraqi action, rather than a coalition missile.

Advance on Baghdad

Coalition aircraft began a new round of intense bombing of Republican Guard positions on the southern outskirts of Baghdad on Tuesday.

American military commanders believe the first clashes have started in what could turn out to be the battle for Baghdad, says the BBC’s Gavin Hewitt who is travelling with the US 3rd Infantry Division.

US commanders claim that significant damage has been done, not just to Republican Guard units themselves, but to their logistics and support apparatus which makes them into a unified fighting force.

Other developments:

In a message read out on Iraqi television, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein calls on Iraqis to hit US and UK forces everywhere.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell heads for Ankara and Brussels on the first foreign trip by a senior US official since the war began.

Iraqi authorities say two buses carrying American and European “human shields” have been attacked by a US warplane on the Baghdad-Amman highway

since USA is not confirming any of this so it won't get any preference from anyone. for them this simply didn't happen so let it go. a mere 11 humans mean nothing.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *

Don't worry Nadia. I'm sure Al Jazera or Iraqi TV is carrying full page obituaries for the Iraqi dead. No ... Sorry, I'm probably wrong there. They just like carrying footage of the defilement of bullet ridden corpses of American soldiers by representatives of the Iraqi regime. Indeed, it is a sick world we live in.

Oh well. In time, each of the Iraqi dead will be suitably obituaried (how's that for a word) by Fiske, Chomsky and Arnett. Except, of course, for the Iraqi dead who have been executed by the Fedayen or tortured by Saddam and his inner circle.
[/QUOTE]

Whata sad situation.
myvoice: Instead of feeling sorry for the family you bring anti-Saddam rhetoric and al-Jazeera rhetoric. how pathetic.

A senior US military officer has defended the shooting as "absolutely... the right thing"...

So it's become official US military policy now that when you they kill unarmned Iraqi women and children, they don't apologise, but say they did "absolutely the right thing". What sick war criminals they are...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Whata sad situation.
myvoice: Instead of feeling sorry for the family you bring anti-Saddam rhetoric and al-Jazeera rhetoric. how pathetic.
[/QUOTE]

No changez. I'm simply responding to the rhetoric posted by Nadia. Had she merely expressed sadness for the death of these innocents, you would have seen nothing but similar expressions of sympathy from me. Instead, she chose to try to propogandize the event by talking about the way Americans are honoring their brave fallen.

When you first begin to find efforts to anti-Americanize every event and every death to be pathetic, I'll first start to care about your voice.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon.

... Is it just me or is this becoming 'routine'. Unlike the full-page obituaries that are published for American/British forces who lose their lives in this invasion, we will never hear personal, individual details for the Iraqi civilians who are murdered. They just become statistics, or numbers.
Sick world we live in.
[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely correct. It just proves that many American's view American lives as far more valuable than the lives of others (even the British soldiers they kill). Why else would they say they "absolutely the right thing" after they killed unarmed Iraqi women and children?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
....
[/QUOTE]

The first line in her response is expression for the loss, prayer for the dead.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
No changez. I'm simply responding to the rhetoric posted by Nadia. Had she merely expressed sadness for the death of these innocents, you would have seen nothing but similar expressions of sympathy from me. ....
[/QUOTE]

Feelings/sadness for human life should be felt/expressed regardless of anyone propagandizing.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
Feelings/sadness for human life should be felt/expressed regardless of anyone propagandizing.
[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you feel like that. I look forward to reading your unqualified non-propogandized expressions of sadness and respect for the young American soldiers who are dieing in combat.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
I'm glad you feel like that. I look forward to reading your unqualified non-propogandized expressions of sadness and respect for the young American soldiers who are dieing in combat.
[/QUOTE]

I don't feel "happy" "joy" when an American/British soldier is killed. But the ones who kill civilians should be punished. How do we achieve that?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

...the ones who kill civilians should be punished. How do we achieve that?
[/QUOTE]

Two words:

Regime Change.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by storch: *

Two words:

Regime Change.
[/QUOTE]

Don't worry there will be regime change...not necassarily in the places you want. :)

In the meantime the US military will keep on killing unarmed Iraqi women and children, and then say it was "absolutely the right thing" to do.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
I don't feel "happy" "joy" when an American/British soldier is killed. But the ones who kill civilians should be punished. How do we achieve that?
[/QUOTE]

Not feeling happiness or joy when an American or Brit is killed is a far cry from expressing feelings of sadness and respect don't you think?

IMO, only people who kill civilians intentionally should be punished. In every war that has ever been fought, civilians have tragically been killed. In every war that ever will be fought, civilians will be killed. Their losses should be mourned and it is the primary reason why wars should never be waged except as the last resort.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Don't worry Nadia. I'm sure Al Jazera or Iraqi TV is carrying full page obituaries for the Iraqi dead. No ... Sorry, I'm probably wrong there. They just like carrying footage of the defilement of bullet ridden corpses of American soldiers by representatives of the Iraqi regime. Indeed, it is a sick world we live in.

Oh well. In time, each of the Iraqi dead will be suitably obituaried (how's that for a word) by Fiske, Chomsky and Arnett. Except, of course, for the Iraqi dead who have been executed by the Fedayen or tortured by Saddam and his inner circle.
[/QUOTE]

Seems i can't write anything in this Forum lest someone misinterpret it as anti-American propaganda.

i have nothing against full-page obituaries for American and British servicemen and women who lost their lives. i sincerely wish that wherever their souls are now, they are resting in peace.

For what it is worth, my personal opinion is that these individuals had the blessing of deciding whether or not they wanted to join the military. They made that decision as rational-thinking adults. Each Iraqi civilian - whether Shi'ite, Sunni, Christian, secularist, religious, child or adult - was not afforded that luxury of deciding whether or not they wanted to participate in this invasion. i find it so 'sick' (for want of a better word) that these civilians are dropping like flies in Iraq - excuse my analogy - and, somehow, those of us who are sitting thousands of miles away are watching this invasion in our comfortable living rooms passing judgements left right and centre.

And no - Fisk, Chomsky, and Arnett will not be running full-page obituaries for the majority of these Iraqi civilians. They're just collateral damage, remember.

i am not certain how else to classify this - what is this if not a crime? Remember that attack in the residential marketplace (that some on this Forum kept insisting may have been due to Iraq) - apparently, according to at least one British journalist, it was indeed an American cruise missile that caused that explosion, leading to the deaths of approximately 60 civilians.

Killing civilians - is this liberation, or is this a war crime ?

Surely the reporter would have gotten a photograph of the number he claims the cruise missile had at the market right?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
....IMO, only people who kill civilians intentionally should be punished.
[/quote]
and how will you measure intention?

[quote]
In every war that has ever been fought, civilians have tragically been killed. In every war that ever will be fought, civilians will be killed.
[/quote]
That is true. But who waged the war? Should you be more sorry for the "victim" or for "aggressor"? Some soldiers did stand up against this war, I like that better than "kill kill".

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Not feeling happiness or joy when an American or Brit is killed is a far cry from expressing feelings of sadness and respect don't you think? ...
[/QUOTE]

This was just to assure that I don't distribute sweets/drinks around when US/UK soldier is killed. I already mentioned in perhaps other thread that I feel sorry for all humankind who die in such circumstances.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Surely the reporter would have gotten a photograph of the number he claims the cruise missile had at the market right?
[/QUOTE]
Then you'd happily admit the number?