My bottom line is that only governments with free and fair elections, a complete system of checks and balances, a fair and impartial judiciary, a civilian led military, a free and fair press, effective and free opposing political parties, and and a history of effective governance should have nukes.
These are the “Safeties” that would allow use of a nuke only in the most dire of circumstances. That is what protects the world from Hitler with his finger on the button. So by my reconning Russia, China, North Korea and Pakistan do not have adequate social safeguards against the use of Nuclear weapons. The remainder of the Nuclear club I trust with these weapons.
It is just stunning to me that the Muslim world is so cavelier about these weapons. They view this through a macho lens that encourages Muslim pride, but completely ignores the risk.
By the way, a Muslim in any part of the world is far more likely to die from a Russian/Chinese AK-47 than an Israeli bomb. So who precisely is really the biggest threat to Muslims?
The US nukes have been safely in the ground for over 60 years, through a multitude of govenment changes, assassinations, wars, a multitude of presidents, impeachments, close elections, and even attacks on our soil.
If proliferation becomes the norm, why should Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, every European country, and Brazil not have these weapons? Incase you have not noticed, the US has significantly reduced its stockpiles from cold war days. It is not the weapons I worry about, it is the governments who control them. Chaos theory says that the more actors with these weapons, the more likely a conflagration will occur.
Now, when the same country's media brainfeeds and trains you into believing that attacking an independent nation, killing its people, robbing its resources, ravaging its lands is a means to freedom, justice and liberty, you believe that...
I guess there is very little difference between some humans and Pavlov's dogs...Simple minds are so easy to manipulate with the subtle power of suggestion...In other words, propaganda...
Sadly, your words about conditioning all too well fits the Islamic world. Possiblly because there is a serious deficit in leadership, or maybe because the Muslim population has been trained to look for external stimuli for their problems than their own shortcomings.
Crusade all you want about oil exporters. The world is already moving away from crude. Look at Brazil. I suspect in a decade the Muslim world will implode unless it deals with its ailments.
When was the last time you hear of a Jew commiting homicide bombing in London, or Spain, or Russia, or Iran, or Iraq, or Saudi Arabia? When was the last time you heard a Jewis leader promising to wipe Israel of the map?
Wake up man! The US-Zionist-Hindu nexus is not what is going to do you in. It'll be the Ummah imploding.....
Children are raised in the shadow that history casts…And in recent times as well as few years ago, no nation has ever been in so many wars as the US…And no country has ever used as deadly force against civilians as the US has…
This utter disdain and contempt for human life and dignity as has been shown by the US in current wars is any indication of things to come, then I say let every nation on earth have Nukes…
Communism was the law of the land in Russia…They tried to spread it with blood and lives…Nazism was the nexus in Germany…They tried to spread it with blood and lives…And now, it’s capitalism and democracy…
All claiming to be the best systems of governments while butchering humanity not in the thousands but millions and millions of lives…
At least the Nazis and Communists had the grace not to use Nukes on civlians…
Worrying about the Ummah is not your problem…Let the Ummah take care of itself…
The Ummah is bubbling with changes…We have had our fill of democracy and communism and this and that…Now, we want what was given to us…The Islamic way of life…
That is where our success has laid for thousands of years and that is to what we will InshAllah return…
Lajawba you try and paint the U.S. as some great war mongering beast, please do explain what your solution would have been instead of military action in the following conflicts. I didn't include Gulf War 2 as I already know your approach was 'live and let die', that is let Saddam live and those under him die, what about the others?
This utter disdain and contempt for human life and dignity as has been shown by the US in current wars is any indication of things to come, then I say let every nation on earth have Nukes...
Communism was the law of the land in Russia...They tried to spread it with blood and lives...Nazism was the nexus in Germany...They tried to spread it with blood and lives...And now, it's capitalism and democracy...
All claiming to be the best systems of governments while butchering humanity not in the thousands but millions and millions of lives...
At least the Nazis and Communists had the grace not to use Nukes on civlians...
What's your excuse?
Perhaps you should ask the Chinese what the American excuse was.
But more to your point, and US killing civilians....that is an excellent point. How many civilians died when Syria fought a war with Jordan? How many civilians dies when Yasser staged a rebellion in Jordan in September? How many died when Assad of Syria got rid of his political enemies? How many died when Eritrea and Ethiopia fought wars? How many dead in Sudan? How many in Bangladesh? How many in Pakistan from sectarian violence alone?
Wake up and smell what you are shoveling.
I say let the Iranians have the nuke. That way, we can just sit back and let the Egyptians take care of them.
That is YOUR criteria, Iranian govt has THEIR OWN criteria, what criteria should Iranian govt opt for?
Per your own criteria and “safeties”… how many nukes did Russia, China fire on other nations yet? Did I hear some criteria fail?
As they say, the risk is worth taking, once you have the deterrent you can stand tall, if not you simply bend over. You can do the risk analysis for what YOU possess and what YOU want to acquire.
But I see more Muslims dying by some carpet bombing, some daisy cutters and lot more other ammunition than Russian/Chinese Ak-47
The Ummah is bubbling with changes...We have had our fill of democracy and communism and this and that...Now, we want what was given to us...The Islamic way of life...
That is where our success has laid for thousands of years and that is to what we will InshAllah return...
Unfortunately worrying about the Ummah has become the problem of the entire world. The Ummah produces misguided souls that sabre rattle and commit terrorism in the name or religion and kill a lot more than any nuclear bombs or daisy cutters.
Past glory in a small stretch of desert is no redemption. The bubbling changes is the Ummah turning on itself.
The Former Soviet Republics have done a perfectly horrible job of protecting their nukes after their financial collapse. Without money from the West they would have been selling the nukes on the open market to the highest bidders. China has been an absolute arms whore. (All hail great China which does not have religious freedom and represses Islamic minorities). Iran promises all of these ills.
And, I believe you are absolutely wrong about the AK-47. Tens of thousands of Muslims are killed every year, and have been killed every year by this weapon of Mass Destruction, sold for blood money by China and Russia. You do not think this proliferation of weapons has brought horror to Muslim people?
Lastly, what in the world are Pakistanis thinking by wishing to be wedged in between nuclear armed India and a potentially nuclear armed Iran? Do you think that you will never fall victim to the Mullahs who somehow beleive that the Shia should rule the Muslim world? Do you think a conflict could never, under any circumstances break out with Iran? Are you nuts? Are you willing to take that chance? A nuke is not only a deterent, it can be used as a blackmail device. The world has had enough nuclear standoffs in Kashmir to prove that one misjudgement could kill millions.
At present Iranian missles and planes cannot reach the US. My child will not die. Are you or your family in range?
Once Iran has nukes InshAllah, there will be a counterweight to check the balance of power...
That's what US and Zionists fear...That once Iran has Nukes, their hegemony of power will decrease in that region...
Agreed, but what if the bewaqoof mullahs get their hands on the nukes- they issue fatwa at the drop of a hat and should they decide to use to use it against Israel, entire region will be affected.
I have said this before…If people who are as courageous and fearless as the Mujahideen are in Iraq right now and they wanted Saddam out, they could have done in an instant…These guys throw away thier lives like confetti…You don;t believe any one of them would be able to take him out?
One of these suicide fighters with incredibly potent bombs could have taken him out if they wanted…Saddam was a pretty outgoing guy visiting hotels and stuff…His entire squad used to be with him…If the Iraqis wantd it, they could have taken care of him…
And please…Spare me the propaganda BS that you are trained to spout…It was never Saddam they went for…First it was WMDs, failing which it was to bring democracy to Iraq, failing which it was to take out Saddam…
The idea should have been to let the regional countries handle it as they had proposed…The Arab council was to convene and settle this issue…
But before that could happen, the greatest coalition of nations, in just one week, assembled to kick Saddam’s ass…Where was this coalition during Bosnia when hundreds of thousands were butchered in concetration camps? Where was this coalition when rape camps were set up and girls as your as three years old were orally and anally raped?
Was it because Kuwait is the biggest supplier of oil to the west? Hmmm…
I once posted a speech here by Harold Pinter…Do you remember that UTD? Do you also remember the Sandinistas and the Contras conflict and the US ambassador’s response?Let me know, I can link you to it…
The Sandinistas were Communists…They set up schools, hospitals, churches, orphanages and brought peace to the whole of Nicaragua…But the American supported Contras came in and burned entire towns and villages which the Sandinistas had set up complete with schools and hospitals on the pretext of aiding the enemy…
And in the news around the world, it was claimed that the Contras are helping and aiding the people of Nicaragua…
And if helping the oppressed is such an issue, where was the US when the Khmer Rouge killed 2.5 million people? Where was the mighty US army when Pol Pot was massacring entire cities? Oh yes…I forgot…Pol Pot was supported by the US…
I see the Darfur problem as nothing more than a regional conflict meant to divert people’s attention…The Sudanese government is working on the problem, yet, as always, to promote US as a humanitrian angel, that conflict is given so much attention…
Ah yes…The genocide that happened with American duplicity…Do you even know what heppened? I will tell you in a couple of lines…
When Yugoslavia fell apart, the war machine and the army equipment fell into the hends of the Serbs…The Muslims mostly were farmers and village folk…
When the war broke out, Iran and Libya offered to go in and aid the hapless Muslim population by supplying them arms to defend themselves…
But the US issued and embargo…Guess upon whom? Yup…You got it…Upon the Muslims…
So when the Serbs marched into towns such as Srebrenica, all they encountered were famers with pitchforks and ancient Enfield rifles…One Canadian general who recently committed suicide wrote how he could hear the screams and shouts of people in a village whose 5,000 inhabitants were slaughtered in just one night…Yes UTD, just one night, because the US had placed an embargo on the Bosnians, not the Serbs…
Izetbegovich, the Bosnian president then told the US in a press conference his famous words, “Either give us weapons or let us die in peace…”
Do you know why he said that? Because the US and other Un forces would arrive at the towns on the pretext of protecting them…Of course, they were there to do nothing excpet unless fired upon…
So the Serbs would come into towns, not fire a single bullet towards the UN ‘peacekeepers’ and destroy that entire community…All while the US and other allied forces looked on…Great job…
Ah…The Afghan massacre…To attack and already beleaguered nation as an act of justice…
US wanted Osama…Taliban wanted proof…A normal and accepted term of protocol between any two nations when dealing with their citizen or asylum seeker…
USA bombed the Taliban as means of their proof…Great going guys…Notch one up for checks and balances and sensible form government…:k:
Wedding parties bombed, villages bombed, thousands dead and maimed…
Take that Osama…Now you know the true meaning of the word, American justice…
I think it is so funny, Osama is seen in a video talking about the attack and the Muslims still want proof. Al Zwahiri rushes off tapes to Al-Jazeera taking credit for flying planes into buildings, and Muslims want proof. The London bombers make videos and say they did it, Muslims want proof. Apparently denial is not just a river in Africa.
Pray tell, why are your mighty mujahideen tragetting fellow Muslims? Maybe Shias are as Kaffir as I am.
Why didn’t you’re mighty mujahideen, who can do so much in Iraq and Sudan, do anything in Bosnia? Where were they then?
I never knew… if it was, has it been solved yet?