Re: Intelligence
Is excessive use of uncommon vocabulary and scholarly language indicative of higher intellect?
nope intelligence have nothing to do with Shakespeare dialect. if you talk with some villager he will probably use terms which not even you forefathers hear before.
Einstein said, "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." Socrates said, "I know that I am intelligent, because I know that I know nothing."
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i wish
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Sure it's not* the* indicator of intellect or intelligence but I think it's excessive to reduce to it merely to having the ability to open a thesaurus.
Many times I don't get references to pop culture/history etc that people make. Does that make me less intelligent? No. But does that make the other person more knowledgeable? Yes. Is that a plus point he/she has over me? I think so.
Same goes for an extensive vocabulary that is used coherently and with proper grammar. You can't do that with a thesaurus sitting in one day. It comes from a long term pattern of knowledge seeking (one example is reading, another is good education). And I would like to think that if you have two groups, one of "scholarly" people and one of a regular mix of people, then the former one will have a higher # of members who actively seek knowledge.
All I'm saying is give credit where it's due but the answer to Nomi's question, like almost everyone is saying, is: not necessarily.
Very nicely put.
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Princessjojo, Knowledge and intelligence are not the same and no they are not correlated. As an example. I would by far have the most knowledge on Afghanistan, Sudan, Peacekeeping, conflict resolution and good governance in post conflict situations on this website. Why? Because this has been my job for a good 5 or more years. I lived in this countries, worked in the field. I know more about all of this due to these personal experiences. But does that make me more intelligent than the rest of the posters? Nope.
A good knowledge base has nothing to do with intelligence. There are posters here who have a strong background in IT which I do not have. Does that mean they have more knowledge on the subject matter? Yes. Does that mean by default they are more intelligent than me because they have this knowledge? Nope.
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Some good points flying around here ...
Knowledge is measured as an "amount of stored data" let's call that bytes of data stored on a hard drive size,
Intelligence is measured as "processor speed"
Being able to draw quick, accurate, consistent and correct conclusions from the knowledge one has gained is what makes one intelligent.
Being able to use complex terms does not necessarily infer the person has great knowledge as they may have cheated. On the other hand if they didn't cheat they may be misusing the terms where other similar terms would be more appropriate to use.
Then there is indeed the level higher than both knowledge and intellect, which is wisdom ... where one uses language appropriate to the audience in order to communicate the ideas in the most efficient manner.
Knowledge shows you have information, intelligence shows that you understand it and know where to apply that information.
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Princessjojo, Knowledge and intelligence are not the same and no they are not correlated. As an example. I would by far have the most knowledge on Afghanistan, Sudan, Peacekeeping, conflict resolution and good governance in post conflict situations on this website. Why? Because this has been my job for a good 5 or more years. I lived in this countries, worked in the field. I know more about all of this due to these personal experiences. But does that make me more intelligent than the rest of the posters? Nope.
A good knowledge base has nothing to do with intelligence. There are posters here who have a strong background in IT which I do not have. Does that mean they have more knowledge on the subject matter? Yes. Does that mean by default they are more intelligent than me because they have this knowledge? Nope.
CM ji, I very well do know that knowledge is not a synonym of intelligence. My favorite desi aunty from my favorite mohalla knows all about all MIL-DIL masle in her gali. Do I think she is intelligent? I guess you think I do because after all according to princessjojo she is "knowledge-seeking." Hence, so many definitions and examples from your side.
I never did say that. I was simply stating an opinion which is against what was being done in this thread: relegating the "skill" (or call it what you want) being discussed to something as insignificant as just being able to use a thesaurus.
And I did end the post saying that I agree with what most posters are saying: that waxing eloquently does not necessarily indicate intelligence.
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Seriously. Was my post that unclear.
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Princessjojo, Knowledge and intelligence are not the same and no they are not correlated. As an example. I would by far have the most knowledge on Afghanistan, Sudan, Peacekeeping, conflict resolution and good governance in post conflict situations on this website. Why? Because this has been my job for a good 5 or more years. I lived in this countries, worked in the field. I know more about all of this due to these personal experiences. But does that make me more intelligent than the rest of the posters? Nope.
A good knowledge base has nothing to do with intelligence. There are posters here who have a strong background in IT which I do not have. Does that mean they have more knowledge on the subject matter? Yes. Does that mean by default they are more intelligent than me because they have this knowledge? Nope.
So what exactly is intelligence?
I used to be into using big words and stuff but I realize now it's much more important to get your point across in a way that everyone can understand it instead of making them feel alienated.
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Using flowery language does not make someone intelligent...sometimes I think its trying too hard. Its more important to be clear and concise.
One of my pet peeves is when people use five words to say something that could be said in two.
That being said...I notice I use bigger words when I get mad. I don't know why I do that but it happens.
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Some folks write very well - and it is a pleasure to read their posts. And they weave in some words that are not familiar to most, but in a very fluid manner - the flow is good, context excellent - and makes for good reading.
I consider those select few highly skilled - and to borrow our P_jojo's thoughts, their skills cannot just be reduced to being able to use a thesaurus.
Without getting into a debate over what is intelligence, I admire those folks who constantly learn new things, and are able to cite anecdotes, references and details just by drawing on their memory bank at will.
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some very intelligent people may not have excellent communication skills. some may be fluent in one language while have no good vocabulary and lack basic comprehension in other language, does it make them less intelligent when they converse in the language they don't speak well? not at all.
high sounding words ≠ intelligence
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some very intelligent people may not have excellent communication skills. some may be fluent in one language while have no good vocabulary and lack basic comprehension in other language, does it make them less intelligent when they converse in the language they don't speak well? not at all.
high sounding words ≠ intelligence
I agree with you. Was just saying having good vacabulary does not mean a person is not intelligent. I actually admire folks who may be excellent in their native language but come over here and post - I dont pay too much attention to grammar or big words - lots of posters make a lot of sense -with good/bad grammar and small/big words.
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So what exactly is intelligence?
I used to be into using big words and stuff but I realize now it's much more important to get your point across in a way that everyone can understand it instead of making them feel alienated.
I personally think its more fundemenatl and basic. The ability to adapt. How you process, retain and use information. In kids the smarter kid is always the one who gets his puzzle's the fastest or solves problems quicker. That is the same as you get older.
How quickly you adapt to situations, how you do things and how you undertake what you know about your surroundings and adapt that to your interactions.
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So what exactly is intelligence?
I used to be into using big words and stuff but I realize now it's much more important to get your point across in a way that everyone can understand it instead of making them feel alienated.
This is a very good point. Check out Chauncey DeVega's blog. Take the States, which seems to have a long tradition of 'anti-intellectualism.' There's a reason why the likes of Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck have become so popular. Their disdain and cynicism towards the "educated, liberal classes" taps into popular sentiment, and is used as leverage in elections. It's why people think Obama is an elitist, pretentious, arrogant prick - not because of his policies, but because he's removed from 'middle America' and is faulted for not being able to relate to regular Americans in the manner of George Bush and Joe the Plumber. Remember the Gulf Coast oil speech? Apparently it was written at a 10th grade level, when the audience preferred 7th grade language. Fewer syllables, shorter sentences. Who knew language was such a landmine.
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I personally think there are different forms of intelligence but people usually think of intelligence, in the simplest terms, as being able to do high level physics/math; being able to take abstract concepts and work with them. I've heard visualization ability being tied to this as well (ex. take a 3D shape and rotate it in your mind's eye).
Vocabulary does not imply intelligence although I'm sure there's a correlation between intelligence and your command of language.
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I agree with ghost
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This is a very good point. Take the States, which seems to have a long tradition of 'anti-intellectualism.' There's a reason why the likes of Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck have become so popular. Their disdain and cynicism towards the "educated, liberal classes" taps into popular sentiment, and is used as leverage in elections. It's why people think Obama is an elitist, pretentious, arrogant prick - not because of his policies, but because he's removed from 'middle America' and is faulted for not being able to relate to regular Americans in the manner of George Bush and Joe the Plumber. Remember the Gulf Coast oil speech? Apparently it was written at a 10th grade level, when the audience preferred 7th grade language. Fewer syllables, shorter sentences. Who knew language was such a landmine.
Next time, could you send me such text, so I can post it and take credit! Well said - Bush got electred mainly due to his "regular guy" image. Elitism, elitists, Ivory tower, liberal are all code words used by the right wing to dumb down everything. Science, evolution, intelligent design (or creationism?) are all given equivalency. I see this attitude adopted in desiland also, where the "conservatives" brush off any appeal for change as "elitist"
What is the Gulf coast oil speech you are referring to?
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I personally think there are different forms of intelligence but people usually think of intelligence, in the simplest terms, as being able to do high level physics/math; being able to take abstract concepts and work with them. I've heard visualization ability being tied to this as well (ex. take a 3D shape and rotate it in your mind's eye).
Vocabulary does not imply intelligence although I'm sure there's a correlation between intelligence and your command of language.
Agreed. Intelligence can be found everywhere. The kid who used to repair my bicycle while an undergrad back home in subcontinent - he was maybe 12 yrs old - could do things I could never do. (This was several moons ago, when child labor laws were not enforced). Some of the kids who were street vendors- there will be umpteen customers - and he would remember everyone's order, the money they gave, and gove back exact change, multitasking in his head, without missing a beat. Some people are very good with milling, lathe, carpentry, arts, drawing, painting, 3-d (as you mentioned), composing music, literature.
It is very humbling when one actually considers how good people are in their respective areas. Unfortunately, some skills are more rewarded by society than others.
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^ hilarious.