Inquiry says Pakistanis sold nuclear secrets / Pakistan riding on the sea of shame

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*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
What do you propose we should've done?
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Its not as to what we could have done... it was disappointing because after years of spending countless billions on our armed forces, one would have thought that our defence forces are capable of holding off the enemy for more than 15-20 minutes.

And if the ground reality is that our air force can only defend our air space for just a few minutes against a US attack (if that ever happens) then I, for one, certainly agree that the decision made by Pakistan government in October 2001 was the correct one. All emotions aside.

My post is aimed for those who think Pakistan is not so "weak" and should take a stand against the US. My view is that the word "weak" is extremely relative. While we may not be weak against Indian Airforce, the paridigm changes significantly when we are talking about a real military superpower. Lets not fool ourselves by over-estimating our capabilities.

Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan Arrested

Ive heard this on the news that Dr Abdul Qadeer was arrested on charges for helping Iran with their nuclear program… is it true???

when i checked the net i got this “ISLAMABAD, Pakistan: Dec 28 (PNS) - Senior Federal Minister for Defence Rao Sikandar Iqbal Friday said that no nuclear scientist was arrested or detained. Talking to journalists at Parliament House, the Minister said that there were de-briefings of a very few scientists on the basis of the information International Atomic Energy Agency passed on to Pakistan but no body was arrested or detained”

:konfused:

He wasn't arrested. I saw him on TV attending an S&T Conference just last night.

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*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
He wasn't arrested. I saw him on TV attending an S&T Conference just last night.
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even i saw him... he was givin interview to ptv..

updated topic to add a "?"

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*Originally posted by outlaw: *

*Oh.if you think the country's well being is safeguarded by bowing to the US and meeting every single demand being put forward, then it's a colossal mistake. *

you fail to factor in 2 aspects in decision making

1) short term vs. long term approach
2) other options and their implications

what you are proposing is an idealistic optimal solution, what the govt is practising is a pragmatic practical and feasible solution.

*It’s not the scientists who are risking the safety and well being of the country. It’s the very manner in which this investigation is being handled, and publicized in newspapers, as some sort of media trial of the top scientists. *

"If" the scientists indeed were trying to help other countries then they are risking the safety and wellbeing of the country. As far as the media coverage goes..go after the newspapers who like to sensationalize this stuff. Half the stories that came out were found baseless and without merit.

I see a lot of emotions about we should take a stand and we should do this..but not about what it means. How would you address it and what would it do?

In holding inquiries teh government is showing that it takes the safety of its nuclear programe seriously

In having these talks with scientists quickly, it can move beyond who was involved. keeping it hush hush and proceeding slowly and bureacratically would not only seem wishy washy to any alleged perp, but would also keep the info about the scientists in doubt.

to me the best solution still is to move on this as thorughly and quickly as possible, protect the good names of people who may be falsely alleged by proving their innocence and quickly finding any rogue elements.

I seriously doubt that Dr A.Q.Khan would have leaked such info, but having run KRL he is probably much better aware of the skills levels and capabilities of suspects, and teh govt may be talking to him as a subject matter expert than a suspect.

either way, the truth will come out sooner or later.

The question is..IF someone had gone ahead and individually decided to sell these secrets to another country, what would you consider him, a patriot or a traitor?

And now LIBYA reveals…it got its nuclear plans from PAKISTAN

Looks like the only thing the Pak Nuclear establishment did not do … is put their N-plans on eBay ! Read on …

Libya bought Pakistan N-plans
By Michael Sheridan and Marie Colvin, The Sunday Times
January 05, 2004
The son of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi has revealed that Libya bought plans to make a nuclear bomb from Pakistani scientists as part of the quest for weapons of mass destruction it has now promised to abandon.

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi said Libya had spent at least $US40million ($53 million) trying to build the bomb – an effort that Western weapons inspectors believe came much closer to fruition than previously thought. Revelations of the extent of Pakistani involvement are expected to increase US and British pressure on President Pervez Musharraf, who already stands accused of failing to prevent the illicit sale of nuclear material to Iran.

Pakistan admitted last week that “rogue scientists” might have peddled technology for individual gain. It said several had been questioned, including Abdul Qadeer Khan, a fundamentalist sympathiser regarded as the father of Pakistan’s nuclear program.

In an interview on his farm east of Tripoli, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, 32, confirmed that Libya used a network of international middlemen to buy nuclear components, including centrifuges, on the black market.

Some of the material came from Malaysia and other Asian countries while other components were bought in South Africa.

Dressed in traditional gold silk Libyan robes and a checked turban, he spoke excitedly of a “new page in Libya’s history” and revealed how he had worked as a “trouble shooter” in talks with US and British officials that culminated in Colonel Gaddafi’s pre-Christmas offer to dismantle Libya’s weapons of mass destruction programs.

For the full Story:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8322621%255E2703,00.html

From Rogue Nuclear Programs, Web of Trails Leads to Pakistan

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/international/04NUKE.html?ex=1074162063&ei=1&en=fdbbfcb0b83fb4ff

Good on us. Its our soveriegn right to trade in any materials we wish to trade in. It is a bilateral military agreement. None of the wests concerns. If they have concerns deal with israel and the 50 year old nuke program with material from the US and the EU.

I am betting if any sales to Libya really happened... it would have been during Benazirs government...the PPP has always had a soft spot for Libya.

Does that make an excuse?

These developments only strengthen the argument that President Musharraf has been articulating for the last year or so, namely the policy of "Pakistan first". I think we need to devote more and more of our energies (internally) in continuing to develop our economy, promoting national development, and building on our geo-strategic and military capabilities.

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*Originally posted by CM: *
Good on us. Its our soveriegn right to trade in any materials we wish to trade in. It is a bilateral military agreement. None of the wests concerns. If they have concerns deal with israel and the 50 year old nuke program with material from the US and the EU.
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You don't transfer any kind of nuclear technology to a rogue state like Libya, which has a very adverse relations with the USA and Israel. It seems that the Pakistani politicians/dictators are totally devoid of political acumen. I don't know how can one justifies such a colossal political blunder. Why do we rave the selling of Israeli weapons to India?

The policy of Pakistan-first is merely a coverup for the loyalty of musharraf towards the US, nothing else.

General Musharraf should have defended AQ Khan and his team of scientists.

pakistan-first policy means,

The people of Pakistan should accept me(mushy) as the president of Pakistan for all eternity.

Greta on A.Q.Khan yesterday

Hello all,

I don't know if anyone caught the Greta Van Sustren program in Fox last night - she had a segment on A.Q.Khan. The nature of the discussion was pretty damming in terms of zoning on him as the center of the worldwide illegal proliferation hub (Libya, N.Korea connections). What surprised me most was the statements about Musharaf firing him from some job but making him an 'advisor' which according to Greta & her guest, was to 'keep a close eye on him'!

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*Originally posted by CM: *
Good on us. Its our soveriegn right to trade in any materials we wish to trade in. It is a bilateral military agreement. None of the wests concerns. If they have concerns deal with israel and the 50 year old nuke program with material from the US and the EU.
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Unfortunately Pakistan has to rely on the west for a number of things - technological as well as financial. Unless you're saying you can shut the borders all around and never have any dealings with the outside world (a la Shoguns) it is a global village now.