Inquiry says Pakistanis sold nuclear secrets / Pakistan riding on the sea of shame

[NYT](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/22/international/asia/22STAN.htSo whats wrong ml?hp)
WASHINGTON, Dec. 21 — A lengthy investigation of the father of Pakistan’s atomic bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan, by American and European intelligence agencies and international nuclear inspectors has forced Pakistani officials to question his aides and openly confront evidence that the country was the source of crucial technology to enrich uranium for Iran, North Korea and possibly other nations.

Until the past few weeks, Pakistani officials had denied evidence that the A. Q. Khan Research Laboratories, named for the man considered a national hero, had ever been a source of weapons technology to countries aspiring to acquire fissile material. Now they are backing away from those denials, while insisting that there has been no transfer of nuclear technology since President Pervez Musharraf took power four years ago.

Dr. Khan, a metallurgist who was charged with stealing European designs for enriching uranium a quarter century ago, has not yet been questioned. American and European officials say he is the centerpiece of their investigation, but that General Musharraf’s government has been reluctant to take him on because of his status and deep ties to the country’s military and intelligence services. A senior Pakistani official said in an interview that “any individual who is found associated with anything suspicious would be under investigation,” and promised a sweeping inquiry.

Pakistan’s role in providing centrifuge designs to Iran, and the possible involvement of Dr. Khan in such a transfer, was reported Sunday by The Washington Post. Other suspected nuclear links between Pakistan and Iran have been reported in previous weeks by other news organizations.

An investigation conducted by The New York Times during the past two months, in Washington, Europe and Pakistan, showed that American and European investigators are interested in what they describe as Iran’s purchase of nuclear centrifuge designs from Pakistan 16 years ago, largely to force the Pakistani government to face up to a pattern of clandestine sales by its nuclear engineers and to investigate much more recent transfers.

Those include shipments in the late 1990’s to facilities in North Korea that American intelligence agencies are still trying to locate, in hopes of gaining access to them.

New questions about Pakistan’s role have also been raised by Libya’s decision on Friday to reveal and dismantle its unconventional weapons, including centrifuges and thousands of centrifuge parts. A senior American official said this weekend that Libya had shown visiting American and British intelligence officials “a relatively sophisticated model of centrifuge,” which can be used to enrich uranium for bomb fuel.

A senior European diplomat with access to detailed intelligence said Sunday that the Libyan program had “certain common elements” with the Iranian program and with the pattern of technology leakage from Pakistan to Iran. The C.I.A. declined to say over the weekend what country appeared to be Libya’s primary source. “It looks like an indirect transfer,” said one official. “It will take a while to trace it back.”

There are also investigations under way to determine if Pakistani technology has spread elsewhere in the Middle East and Asia, but so far the evidence involves largely the exchange of scientists with countries including Myanmar. There have been no confirmed reports of additional technology transfers, intelligence officials say.

The Pakistani action to question Dr. Khan’s associates was prompted by information Iran turned over two months ago to the International Atomic Energy Agency, under pressure to reveal the details of a long-hidden nuclear program. But even before Iran listed its suppliers to the I.A.E.A. — five individuals and a number of companies from around the world — a British expert who accompanied agency inspectors into Iran earlier this year identified Iranian centrifuges as being identical to the early models that the Khan laboratories had modified from European designs. “They were Pak-1’s,” said one senior official who later joined the investigation, saying that they were transferred to Iran in 1987.

Pakistani officials said the sales to Iran might have occurred in the 1980’s during the rule of the last American-backed military ruler, Gen. Mohammad Zia ul-Haq. They acknowledge questioning three scientists: Mohammed Farooq, Yasin Chohan and a man believed to be named Sayeed Ahmad, all close aides to Dr. Khan.

A senior Pakistani intelligence official said Mr. Farooq was in charge of dealing with foreign suppliers at the Khan laboratory, run by Dr. Khan until he was forced into retirement — partly at American insistence — in the spring of 2001. At the laboratory, where much of the work was done that led to Pakistan’s successful nuclear tests in 1998 and its deployment of dozens of nuclear weapons, Mr. Chohan was in charge of metallurgical research, according to senior Pakistani officials.

Contacted by telephone last week, relatives of Mr. Farooq said he was still being questioned. Mr. Chohan’s family said Sunday that Mr. Chohan had been released and was at home.

Dr. Khan declined several requests in November for an interview, routed through his secretary and his official biographer, Zahid Malik. However, Mr. Malik relayed a statement from Dr. Khan that he had never traveled to Iran. "He said, `I have never been there in my life.’ " A European confidante of Dr. Khan’s, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the Pakistani scientist put the blame for transfers on a Middle Eastern businessman who he said was supplying Pakistan with centrifuge parts and, on his own, double-ordered the same components to sell to Iran. “There is evidence he is innocent,” the confidante said of Dr. Khan in an interview. “I don’t think he is lying, but not perhaps telling the whole truth.”

Iran has insisted that all of its centrifuges were built purely for peaceful purposes, and last week it signed an agreement to allow deeper inspections.

But for 18 years Iran hid the centrifuge operations from the agency’s inspectors.

In Pakistan, the disclosure of the investigation is already complicating the political position of General Musharraf, who narrowly escaped an assassination attempt a week ago. An alliance of hard-line Islamic political parties has already assailed him for questioning the scientists, saying the inquiry shows he is a puppet of the United States.

Any attack on Dr. Khan, hailed as the creator of the first “Islamic bomb,” is likely to be seized by the Islamist parties as a major political issue. Many Pakistanis opposed the American-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as what is seen as the United States’ one-sided support of Israel. Many also perceive the United States as trying to dominate the Muslim world — and through pressure on the nuclear scientists, to contain its power.

While General Musharraf was responsible for sidelining Dr. Khan nearly three years ago, he has also praised him. When the nuclear and military establishments of Pakistan gathered for a formal dinner early in 2001 to honor Dr. Khan’s retirement, General Musharraf described him this way, according to a transcript of his speech in a Pakistani archive: “Dr. Khan and his team toiled and sweated, day and night, against all odds and obstacles, against international sanctions and sting operations, to create, literally out of nothing, with their bare hands, the pride of Pakistan’s nuclear capability.”

By 1986, American intelligence had concluded that Pakistan was making weapons-grade uranium. And Dr. Khan was making no secret of his expertise: he published two articles that advertised his knowledge. He did so, he wrote, “because most of the work is shrouded in the clouds of the so-called secrecy” controlled by Western nuclear powers.

At around the same time, Iran made its secret deal and obtained basic centrifuge designs, the ones that now bear Pakistan’s technological signature.

But it was in the mid- to late 1990’s, as American sanctions tightened, that Pakistan made its biggest deal — with North Korea, American intelligence officials have said. Though Pakistan continues to deny any role, the laboratories are believed to have been the centerpiece of a barter arrangement of nuclear technology for missiles. South Korean intelligence agents discovered the transactions in 2002 and passed the information to the C.I.A. In the summer of that year, American spy satellites recorded a Pakistani C-130 loading North Korean missile parts in North Korea.

Earlier this year the State Department barred American transactions with the Khan laboratory because of the missile deal.

Pakistani officials say that since Dr. Khan’s retirement, he has no longer been officially affiliated with the laboratory that bears his name. Still, one former Pakistani military official described him as a proud nationalist who saw himself as a Robin Hood-like character outwitting rich nations and aiding poor ones. Dr. Khan, he said, “was not that sort that would think it was a bad thing” to share nuclear weapons technology. “In fact, he would think it was a good thing.”


First of all Pakistan shouldn’t develop all these in the first place, it’s an “unstable” country, it has no “democracy”, no body know who is “in-charge”, their leader is a military general. Secondly what “right” Pakistan has to transfer or sell this technology to other countries, after all the technology was “stolen” from a western country? The Pakistani leaders should treat these scientists as terrorists and tell them who is “in-charge”.

Dear Mr. Musharaf, I feel your “pain”.

That’s my point as well, why these "uncivilized" Pakistani's and Arabs should have all these. At least you understand, these rights are just for the "civilized", only they should be allowed to "use", sell and transfer this technology.

Ok we agree on one thing stealing is bad. So where did you think this country, which by the way became a country after centuries of stealing got this technology from? Ohh they must have bought it, with the money the have earned from stealing….isn’t Holland, a very resourceful country. So lets stop bashing people who don’t have the skills to drive their camels in straight lines.

And what is this perceived enemies thing, even a country like Burkina Faso should have this technology, you never know when the people in NewZeland go crazy.

And you were asking what the arabs are afraid of, I think they are afraid of the Jewish kippots which the Israelis have developed by their selves, with out stealing and with out any help from any one in this world, in the US, as if it was given to them on mount Sinai.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
...and who are the perceived enemies of any of these countries? Who is Libya afraid of? Saudis? Iranians? Iraqis ? Syrians ? etc. who are they afraid of ? Mexico?
[/QUOTE]

I think there is a country who has both Nuclear weapons and Bio weapons in their neighboorhood.... care to guess?

Sir ji this is wrong, we keep on looking at the world with one eye, even though the lord has given us two. The uncivilized NA would have brought hell on Pakistan, but the civilized world would not? We are so stuck with the notion of democracy as the only litmus test to be civilized, all these concepts which the west achieved with in the last 50 some years are becoming so damn important for browns that they have lost sight. Where were these litmus tests when these democracies where killing people right and left on the bases of race, color & religion.

We are so hooked up to freedom of expression but fail to see how it is achieved. We worry so much for Iran and its people not being able to express their selves, and forget that there is bigger number killed and maimed in Egypt every year for expressing. Even though just by your civilized standards Iran should be more stable, at least it had held four elections since 1979, and nobody there had won by 99% vote.

But lets cut the chase, if a country like Holland can have nuclear technology, why shouldn’t Pakistan, and if countries like UK and France can sell and transfer the technology to any country why couldn’t Pakistan. We know how UK and France had gained their status in the last 50 years, so why cry when Pakistan is doing the same.

Or may be there is difference between being civilized and being “civilized” or may be it’s the way they live eat or believe?

Pakistan is a peaceful country. If the scientists have transferred
anything it has nothing to do with the Govt Of Pak. Or their program.

Strange that Scientists (more than once) working for the Govt’s programme transferring technologies does not amount to its involvement (though covert - as in most such cases) and you want world to believe it. Read this and you yourself will think again
http://www.dawn.com/2003/12/23/fea.htm#1
Who passed our nuclear secrets to Iran?
By M. Ziauddin

And how did this happen? Well, all the Pakistani scientists associated with our nuclear programme, including Dr A.Q. Khan,** had remained under 24-hour strict military surveillance all through the years since the programme was started. **One in-service brigadier had always remained at the side of Dr Khan during his waking hours.

Madhane: U !! and ur fascination with camels …:hehe:

DR A. Q. Khan and the Musharraf Government.

My Friend, Professor DR. Mujahid Kamran's letter to Arab News

Tuesday, December 23, 2003

The Editor

Arab News, Jeddah
Dear Sir,

** DR A. Q. KHAN and the MUSHARRAF GOVERNMENT**

It is with great concern that I have read the news on p1 of today’s Arab News regarding the sordid treatment being meted out by Musharraf and his cohorts to Dr. A.Q .Khan, the father of Pakistan’s nuclear bomb. Shortly after General Musharraf staged a coup against an elected government, he refused extension in the tenure of Dr. A. Q. Khan as Director of the famed Khan Research Laboratories Kahuta (KRL). The move was widely interpreted as an attempt to please the Americans even if that meant going against Pakistan’s deepest interests.

Contrasted to this, soon after the nuclear tests of 1998 , the BJP government in India had granted lifetime tenure to Dr. Abdul Kalam who had rendered similar services, though of a lesser magnitude, for India. Subsequently the BJP government has, to its great credit, elected Dr. Abdul Kalam to the position of President of India.

The difference in treatment of two eminent scientists of the subcontinent by two rival countries indicates the difference in the culture of rulers. One set of rulers is determined to win respect for their country by observing its deepest interests while the other looks to its masters in another continent. One set honors those who contribute, the other half educated set humiliates those who contribute.

The Pakistanis are mad with rage, this being the latest and the unkindest cut of all in a series of treacherous acts. The irony of the whole thing is that it were the efforts of A Q Khan more than anyone else that gave Musharraf and Co their swagger - they sit on nuclear weapons only because AQ Khan was there to enrich uranium successfully to weapon grade level among other things.

As a Pakistani and as a physicist I wish to record my deep resentment and sense of outrage at this latest and most sordid of acts committed by the Musharraf government. These sentiments are an accurate reflection of the feelings of expatriate Pakistanis with many of whom I have talked today.

Dr. Khan and his family have made many sacrifices for Pakistan. He left Netherlands giving up a lucrative job to work in anonymity for years. In fact the initial quarters of KRL, originally named ERL (Engineering Research Laboratories), were housed in a most unwelcome place – an abandoned army truck parking area from British times, infested with most venomous snakes which were killed on an almost daily basis. Mrs. Khan, a native Dutch, gave up her Dutch nationality so that Dr. Khan could pursue classified work. Now whenever she has to visit Netherlands she has to queue up like the local Pakistanis outside the Dutch embassy. On the other hand General Musharraf’s son is an American national who does not want to come back to Pakistan. Talk of sacrifice!

Professor Dr. Mujahid Kamran , Riyadh

DR. Mujahid is currently, Professor of Physics at King Saud University and hold a permanent position as Professor of Physics at Punjab University, Lahore.

DR A. Q. Khan and the Musharraf Government.

.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Minime Bhaijan, we don’t need to burry our head into history too deep for every little issue and decrying democracy or the west is not going to get countries like Pakistan out of the economic and social pithole that it has dug itself into, and you can’t say that because the Dutch or the French sell nuclear technology, so can Pakistan, well these countries also sell cheese and chocolate and wine, so why only copy them in selling nuclear knowhow (besides 90% of the world is signatory to 1963 treaty.. do you mean to say that the world is stupid?) Yeah, selling nukes with the intention of wiping out the entire world is very much in line with our ideology. What if these lethal weapons come into the hands of those who have no regard for life (and yes, I know the regular anti-western shipeel of blah blah blah).

Bhaijan, the first thing Islamic countries need to do is to civilize themselves, educate its people, give people the freedom that they deserve. Exporting nuclear know-how can follow. Can you imagine if some prickhead Mullah gets his fingers on the unkes of Pakistan? It is not a far stretched possibility, the way the country is going, we can expect Molvis to be in charge in a few years down the road.
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i have looked at all your posts in here, firs thing you dont live in Pakistan and i doubt it if you ever lieved there.
its very easy to comment on useless army and weapons. well the hard truth is the so called 5 powers cant digest any one can make deals of selling weapons or arms apart from themselves, which will be cheaper than their own.

I am against any nuclear tech transfer, but when you dont even recognise these two countries as nuke powers, dont give membership, dont sit on table with equality and keep it to 5 for controlling this tech. you just cant blame cause they are not bound by any law, cause they havent signed anything.

if libya, or iraq actually had weaponsMD they shouldnt have sanctioned and attacked so freely just to get one person!

why super powers cant tolerate difference of opinion?? ie. north korea, libya, and you will see US will not attack korea. cause they know their capability. same goes for pakistan. they cant put sanctions either in fear of transfer .. and they cant attack

and above all who used Weapons and wage wars in recent past?
these werent so called un civilised people. this came from the most "civilised killers" in the world.

if Pakistan has to deweaponise then why not make this world free of nukes? what right US and other have to keep these? world should be equal there shouldnt be veto ?

if that world be created i m sure no one really needs these weapons and this technology could be used in much constructive

Equality and Justice! can solve this. more you create unjustice more there will be insecurity and obsesssion to get this.

Pakistan Riding on the Sea of Shame: II

Reading this morning news has just made me sick to the stomach. What kind of low moronic, tyrant, and unrepresentative regime d we have in place, which would publicly humiliate its top brass of scientists and scholars, like Dr AQ Khan. If it weren’t for the sincere efforts of him and others in his group, Pakistan would have been ransacked by India decades ago. One thing I refuse to accept is that the scientists - who have worked tirelessly to make Pakistan secure - were motivated by greed and money, even if the charges of transferring technology to Iran are true. My personal opinion is that it’s a cover up by the coward Pakistani regime. Even if the scientists were individually involved, then most likely they did it only to empower another Islamic country with nuclear weapons, and instead of accepting the facts as they are and trying to put a diplomatic spin, once again, Pakistan has shown its immaturity, and inability to deal with this matter discreetly. The matter required great statesmanship, and careful treading, as oppose to shameless public remarks being made by indecorous people like sheikh Rashid, against the top scientists. They have plainly made an ass out of the whole country by turning this into a public spectacle. All for few more dollars and some attention from their master- the US

Re: Inquiry Suggests Pakistanis Sold Nuclear Secrets

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *

First of all Pakistan shouldn’t develop all these in the first place, it’s an “unstable” country, it has no “democracy”, no body know who is “in-charge”, their leader is a military general. Secondly what "right" Pakistan has to transfer or sell this technology to other countries, after all the technology was "stolen" from a western country? The Pakistani leaders should treat these scientists as terrorists and tell them who is “in-charge”.

Dear Mr. Musharaf, I feel your “pain”.
[/QUOTE]

Well, when you have "stable" "democratically elected" govt.s with secure "command & control" bombing the F out of poorer countries, then why should a military dictator be any different? We detonated the bomb with a stable democratically elected govt. in place. Did you accept the bomb then because it was exploded by a democratic govt? Being democratically elected doesn't give anyone a license to bomb and loot, you know.
If just stealing the design of a nuke is "terorrism" to you, then I'd like to know how you would describe the heroshima in '45. This is rich.

All this outlaw because they're questioning Dr. Khan?

well its simple as this..

1) if the people went on their own and started doign deals with other countries, it raises soem serious questions about the people's loyalty to their countries..whether teh competing loyalty is to one's self interest financially, or to some "greater cause" its becomes a liability to Pakistan.

The people in question..if they did give secret info out..could have done so as individuals and not affiliated themselves with teh research labs, I am sure there are some oaths in place which must have been broken if information was passed out.

does it sicken you outlaw, that if true, the people in question, put Pakistan in a precarious position by their actions?

if they wanted to help the ummah so badly, they could have resigned from the labs and moved to whichever country they wanted to help..

this divided loyalty business worries me.

2) even if pak govt wanted to cover it up, if the people in question have supplied info to other countries, which are now talking, the facts would come out sooner or later, so why not be proactive and contain this situation

Yes, and more importantly, all the allegations of accepting money have started to surface after his interview yesterday..I mean who are they exactly kidding..? Is there any doubt about his sincerity and dedication about him and his team after all what they have done for Pakistan. If it was for the money, I am sure none of them would have ever opted to return to Pakistan and give so much to the nation, then so why such public humiliation all of a sudden..? That's what happens in the countries where there's an absence of fundamental representation of people, and democracy.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Minime Bhaijan, Pakistan’s nuclear program was almost entirely financed by the Shieks/Arabs with a promise by Pakistan to return the favor in kind. Now the country is bankrupt and they will sell whatever they can to whoever they can. Mushy probably is hiding Osama in his basement and is waiting for the price to go up a bit before handing him over to civilized people.
[/QUOTE]

Pakistan's nuclear program was funded by the Arabs? Thatsa new one. From what i can recall KSA offered Pakistan some linient terms in its oil purchase after the 98 explosions but nothing before that. They "may" have provided some aid earlier (again we dont know for sure) but to claim that it was almost entirely funded by the Arabs is concocting the truth. In fact this is what I would call inventing the truth from behind a PC.
Moreover, you claim Pakistan is a bankrupt country and thus will sell nuke technology to anyone. Well let me enlighten you, dear. If you had only bothered to read the papers you'd know Pakistan's foreign exchange reserves today stand at $12bn. Better than anytime in history. Pakistan has prepaid more than $1bn worth of external loans this year and plans to prepay an even larger amount in the coming years. GDP grew at 5.1% last year and is expected to surprass 5.3% this year. Pakistan's fiscal deficit is down to 4%, and the rate of debt accumulation has decreased substantially (both external and internal). In fact there is a Fiscal responsibility law in the pipelines that would bind the future govts. to achieve 0% fiscal deficit by 2008 and a surplus from there on. With current projections, I dont see why it can't be done. We're already down to 4%.
Now does that sound like a bankrupt country desperate for money? There's so much more to shut you up, but I'd let you chew on this for a while and come back after a shake up of the head.

outlaw

whether it was money or scientists personal interest into some "greater cause" to them.. I think it goes counter to their positions which brought a lot of reponsibilities to them as well.

By letting personal ambitions/ideologies interfere with work important to their nation, there is a serious issue.

I think the alleged actions completely violate any oaths that organizations and positions like these require.

I don't think its a matter of "few more dollars and some attention from their master- the US", anymore. If we are talking about nuclear proliferation, then its much serious than getting more aid from US.

If the world starts to believe that we have an irresponsible government (at worse) or have rogue scientists (at best) who are going around giving up nuclear "secrets" and nuclear technology to other countries, then potentially you are talking about direct strikes within Pakistan to take out our nuclear assets, so that the thread of proliferation can be contained.

Fraudz, what worries me the most is Pakistan stooping to the level where we are incapable of defending ourselves, and the nuclear program being thrown into some sort of turmoil? Do think that I am the only one who is unhappy about this ordeal, well; it wouldn't be surprising that most of the armed forces are boiling underneath, and the next thing you know is that musharraf is dealt with. I think we get more into a precarious situation each time by bending-over further, since we are giving up to pressure.

Even, if there're reasons to believe that the scientists proliferated the technology, it should have been dealt in a more diplomatic manner. Containing the situation..? That’s what should have happened, but you need people who are actually capable.