Injunctions on length of pants

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Injunctions on length of pants

1) Taliban are not a standard for islam.. so that point is void

2) Yes i agree with what you've said (partially), i disagree cuz it does seem quite obvious that he (saws) told them to keep their garments above the ankles without even mentioning pride.

Notice, for e.g.

[quote]

Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, may Allaah be pleased with him, who said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The lower garment of the Muslim should come down to mid-calf, but there is nothing wrong if it is between that point and the ankles.

1) Whatever is lower than the ankles is in the Fire.
2) Whoever trails his garment on the ground out of pride, Allaah will not look at him.

[/quote]

Two separate issues, two separate punishments.. Notice all ahadith mention two different things.. 1- if you do it out of pride then Allah (swt) will not look at you, and 2- whatever is below the ankles is in the fire..

And read again.. no mention of pride:

[quote]

Hudhayfah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) took hold of the muscle of my calf (or his calf) and said, ‘This is where the izaar should stop; if you insist, it may be lower, but it should not reach the ankles.’" (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, who said this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth; see Sunan al-Tirmidhi, no. 1783

[/quote]

Here, the Prophet (saws) is talking to the son of Umar (ra), and no mention of pride again..

[quote]

Ibn ‘Umar said: "I passed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and my izaar had slipped down. He said, ‘O ‘Abdullaah, pull up your izaar!’ so I pulled it up. He said, ‘More!’ so I pulled it up more, and always made sure it was pulled up properly after that." Some people asked, "To where did you pull it up?" He said, "To mid-calf length." (Reported by Muslim, no. 2086; al-Dhahabi, Kitaab al-Kabaa’ir, 131-132)

[/quote]

22

Re: Injunctions on length of pants

Yes, I've seen already that some of the hadith's do not mention pride, but then how do you explain the one in which Abu Bakr asks if his clothing is OK and in which the Prophet says, it is since he doesn't do it with pride?

When looking at hadith, you can't look at one alone - you need to look at them all to get a big picture. Otherwise, you can point at one hadith and make it law and the ignore the other hadith's - this is doing injustice to the topic at hand.

Perhaps one hadith was narrarated by someone who didn't remember the pride clause. Perhaps another hadith narrarator did remember it and included it in.

Therefore, you need to look at the sum total of hadith and look at the big picture they paint.

IMHO. Its the only logical way to do it.

23

Re: Injunctions on length of pants

^-- thats hardly a newsflash.. thats how its always been done.. the more logical conclusion is to decide that dropping pants below the ankles is a sin anyway, but doing so out of pride is a bigger sin. This covers all the ahadith at hand.

24

Re: Injunctions on length of pants

dropping pants below the ankles is a sin anyway

Then you've contradicted the Abu Bakr-wala hadith :)

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Re: Injunctions on length of pants

^ reading that hadith it would appear Abu Bakr (r) is saying his izhar hangs low only if he does "not take care of it"... in other words, inadvertently...

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Re: Injunctions on length of pants

^ adding to that.. i also asked before, why dont you think Abu Bakr (ra) just declare that he was free of conceit, so no need for him to follow the Prophet(saws)'s orders.. like everyone here seems to be doing?

Eid 2007
27

Re: Injunctions on length of pants

Yes, so when someone wears regular normal pants, aren't they inadvertently doing it, not knowing that it even means conceit...which it really doesn't in our culture anyway??

Furthermore: Why didn't the Prophet tell Abu Bakr to stop doing it inadvertently and to be more careful, because now that he knows its a bad thing, he should stop it at once? No, he didn't go any further to make claims that if Abu Bakr continues to do it, he's going to hell. Because that's simply absurd!

Furthermore part deux: Inadvertently in what sense? You can inadvertently wear long pants without realizing it is wrong...And you can inadvertently wear it without MEANING to signify any conceit from it in the first place.

How can you possibly think that wearing long garments being a sign of conceit is something that is true all of the time for all cultures?? Do you think fashion designers sit there and say..."hm...I want this outfit to have a "conceited" look, so let me keep the seem lower..."

No.

This fashion had significance in the Arab culture. For present day arabs, if this is still part of their culture, then this hadith is for them.

For us, its just good to know that in our own fashion if a particular dress is supposed to signify "I'm better than you", then its best not to wear it. Do we have such a dress in the Pakistani culture? Does wearing a dhoti, which drags all over the floor, say to you "Hi, I'm better than you cuz I wear a dhoti?"

No, in fact if anything it says "Hi, I am a Punjabi paindoo. U vant frandship?".