haha.
Jackhandy: Thanks for clarification...I knew thats what you meant though was not very clear to me first time.
NYAhmedi: yaar tu saanu Amritsari Sardai te lassi, Lahori Kebab te horr kai kujh di yaad kra kra ke kion taRfaundaN ayeN. patta nai kadoN ehna burgeraN shurgraN toN jaan chhutoo gi. :)
I have not found better sardai, lassi, khoye te faloode wali ice cream than Amritsar..not yet. :)
CM
Urdu was surly Developed during Moughal rule (actually in the red district of Lukcnow) it took words from all the known languages of the time, and still does it. So what's wrong with Punjabi, for me the sweetest thing to my ears is Punjabi being spoken by a true Lahori. And yet the educated classes with what I call inferirority complex fall into the trap of what you fellows have descirbed as ghulabi urdu, to me this is the worst thing that can happen to any language. And I can't help laughing when I hear ghulabi urdu.(I heard once...Ubba jaan kaya main aap kou goouton)
Surly the reason why Punjabi has never arisen to the same level as of other langaues is because its speakers back away from it and have been doing it for far too long. Listen to Bullay Shah from a singer and you would be amazed. Listen to Nusrat Fatah Ali singing Punjabi ghazals, geet, quwalis and one wonders why the hell we are so pathetic about such a beatuiful language.
Gurumukhi is a Sanskritized script of Punjabi. It is used by Hindus and Sikhs in India. Hindi uses the Devnagari script. Marathi, Nepali, Sanskrit, Konkani also use Devnagari (script of the gods). Sindhis in India also uses Devnagari script.
Sindhi and Punjabi has Sanskrit as the base language. Urdu is comparatively a very new language is basically a mixture of Hindi, Hindustani, Brajbhasha, Awadhi,Bhojpuri, Hindustani, Khariboli, Arabic and Turkish. This is a language of Uttarpradesh, India and was brought to Pakistan by Mohajirs. Urdu was never spoken in the present Pakistan before 1947. Urdu has been symbolised as a language of Muslims which is not true. Urdu is spoken by Hindus and Sikhs too.
Because of Urdu- Punjabi, Sindhi, Pushto and Baluchi would be dead languages in the next few decades. I feel Bengalis were spared otherwise Bengali would also had the same fate as Punjabi and Sindhi.
Re: sarwar/malik
Incidentalyy guys - I fully comprehend ur ethnic sentiments to create a linguistic strife but the fact remains that Punjabi is not a seperate language ( as per the definitions of linguistics- it is a dialect of Hindustani/Urdu/Hindi).
There are two problems - number one u say urdu was the language of mohajirs and u lump all mohajirs asa single ethnic group which is incorrect. Mohajirs came from different backgrounds, - tamilians ( madrasis), Telegu speakers ( Hyderabadis), Bengalis , GUjratis, UPites and others - the fact remains that many of them gave up their regional languages to forge a unfied Islamic identity and the language of choice was urdu. incidentally I dont think that the majority of mohajirs are even UPites. Urdu was spoken in most of N. India that includes the provinces of Bihar/Rajastahn /UttarPradesh/MadhyaPradesh/ ( BOmbay Presidency) Maharashtra/ AndhraPradesh ( hyderabad) - for two reasons it was a largely a legacy of the Mughal empire and it was strongly associated with Muslims..... -
Actually in present India muslims of all most ethnic grps be they Assamese or Keralites - most are conversant in Urdu.
Secondly Hindi is a much newer language tha Urdu - Hindi was formalised in the 1870's - urdu came into being formally during Akbar's time - Amir Khusrau et al.....
Urdu was a mixture of the local HIndustani languages , Turkish, Persian & Arabic .... - the word Urdu itself - means army - or language of the army to facilitae th ecommunication between the various ethnic legions in the mughal's army.
From the Encylopaedia Britannica .....
" Earlier varieties of Urdu, variously known as Gujari, Hindawi, and Dakhani, show more affinity with eastern Punjabi and Haryani than with Khari Boli, which provides
the grammatical structure of standard modern Urdu.
Your other asertion that Urdu was never spoken in present day Pakistan prior to 47 is incorrect. Lahore was a strong center of the urdu literary scene along with Lucknow & Delhi.... How then do u explain Iqbal et al......
Even back-water Peshawar had an Islamia college where Urdu not pushto was the secondary medium of instruction in pre-partition days......
Even Punjab University founded in 1882 was
found on the grounds of Urdu jamia Punjab in Lahore ... this completely refutes ur assertions.....
It think ethnocentric behaviour and regional rivalries prevent us from forging a national identity as is evidenced here - whether it is Urdu or should have Arabic ( as suggested by the Aga Khan) or persian or whatever.....
The problem is that regional sentiments often suppoort myopic idiocy - REgionalism and tribalism is so deeeply engendered in the Pakistan pshye that it is shame..... - Karachi one of the few places in Pakistan where regional issues were not major until the mid 80's... - it was in many ways a melting pot for Pakistan ......
Jack
I think we should avoid trampling upon regional and minorities issues. The issue basically is that local languages should not be buried into the sand, so as to become a past memories. There is a lot to learn from all these languages,including Punjabi, which will indeed benefit Urdu. There has been no attempt, at least on my part, to lable Urdu as Muhajir's language; urdu infact blossemed in the lap of Punjabis who nurtured it more than any one else.
The point is why be shy of accepting Punjabi as the most spoken language of Pakistan and indeed India as a whole.
You know Iqbal often compalined about urdu's depth as he had problems expressing his thoughts in urdu, he said urdu is "shana pazir hay aabhi" Iqbal infact started his poetry in Farsi and its a pitty that a lots of his work has not reached common peoples as they and we are unable to read Farsi.Iqbal was awarded PhD for jis thesis on Farsi language in Germany.
So guys lets be productive in our comments; I must say some of comments have been very intersting to note, and I am impressed.
I think our national language should have been Arabic. It would have helped us more in uniting the muslims of PAK land and also help us understand Quran and Islam better. But, now that Urdu is our national language we should all make an effort and learn it so we can communicate. Nothing matches punjabi when it comes to jokes... Pushto is another fun to speak language and Sindhi and Balochi are sweet languages as well. Sweetest has got to be the Siraikee though. Those who put down urdu and refuse to speak it just because its not their mother tounge are plain old trouble makers and have s*** for brains. Bugti is one of those!!!
[Note: This message has been edited by kashmirigirl]
hi,i am a singaporean punjabi and i think the truth remains-nothing beats being able to spak your mother's tongue .i am extremely proud to be a pakistani and a punjabi but the sad fact remains that i can only speak a few smattering words of both the said language as from young we have been taught french,mandarin and malay.i think every pakistani parent should emphasised on punjabi or urdu
Munnday
I beleive that normal Pakistanis can only flourish in every aspect, let it be democracy, literature, culture etc IF we get rid of our Sardars (such as Bugti, Pir Pigaroo etc)and other Jagirdars(such as Bhuttos, Sharifs) and Nawabzads. These are BIG hurdels in our society.
Sonaya
To learn is to live but to forget our heritage is a living death. I appreciate your encouragement towards parents.
By the way I have been to Singapore few years back and enjoyed the area very much, especially the food...fascinating place.