India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Drona.. the personal attack was unwarranted.

So now it's about them helping us counter NE issues? Before you said we give aid to Burma and Bhutan because they will help us negotiate pro India policies on the global stage.. now that I've shot down that argument you have switched it to the NE issue.

I called them insignificant on the global stage to help India negotiate pro India policies. Are they not?

Yes Burma and Bhutan can help us in the NE but perhaps we dont have to throw so much cash at them for this. I am just thinking about the millions of my brothers and sisters below the poverty line.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Agreed.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

@sharabee

I apologize for the attack, but such supercilious comments ("insignificant") like yours that smack of superiority complex really piss me off. Such comments alienate our well wishers in the neighbouring countries and are counter productive. We don't need to trash them in order to be proud of our culture and heritage.

We are not "throwing" money at them, we are only helping them to help ourselves in the shorterm ( combating insurgencies) and long term ( creating robust economic relationships). The amount of money that is given as Aid can be debated.

Thank you for shooting down my argument and allowing me to refine it. I will rephrase it: Active Foreign Policy measures allow us to participate more successfully at the global stage and solve national problems.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

It's not superiority complex. I was just being realistic about their status on the world stage. But yeah.. lets agree that they are insignificant but lets not call them that cuz they will not like it :D I agree with that sentiment. Hopefully there isnt anyone from those countries on this board! I have nothing against these countries. No problem with India being the big brother.

I agree with the rest. Foreign Policy is extremely important to any country's development in today's globalized world.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

@dronacharya

A country's foreign policy keep o changing. Old friends can turn enemies really quickly. Friendship that takes year to build take only a single incident to tarnish.

As I said I support your views regarding the importance having a group of friendly nations around you especially with China trying very hard to get these country under their arm (Srilanka, Nepal and Myanmar). However, my only concern is that our cabinet is spending most of their time to prove our economic prowess to the rest of the world. The problem is not only the money spent but also the time spent to see whether the money is used appropriately. I understand the running a country is not an easy job but the PM should realise that he is the head of the country and should be more concerned about what happens within the country than outside.

China did the same thing. They did not poke their finger in anyones problem until now, where they are strong enough to put their weight on other countries and get things their way. India's time to do the same will come in the next 10-20 years. But till than we should concerned more about our own country

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Charity starts at home, instead of adding salt to injury India should donate that money to the billions of poor people in India.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Could not have said it better meself.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

@net_dawg

You feel that domestic policy and the foreign policy of the Government are mutually exclusive. I believe that they are not and furthermore are inextricably connected. How India deals with other countries has direct impact on the citizens of India.

[QUOTE]
The problem is not only the money spent but also the time spent to see whether the money is used appropriately. I understand the running a country is not an easy job but the PM should realise that he is the head of the country and should be more concerned about what happens within the country than outside.
[/QUOTE]

We don't know what the PM is thinking, we don't know what is being discussed in the cabinet. IMHO to make a judgment call in such a situation would be presumptuous. Perhaps your opinion is influenced by a media which finds these "super power" issues more "sexy" and chooses to highlight them. And the PM is not all powerful monarch or a dictator who decides everything. We live in a democracy and there are various checks and balances. Parliament, media, etc. If he ignores critical issues, ideally media will highlight it. Congress wallas will get nervous and approach Mrs Sonia Gandhi. Mrs Gandhi will call PM and tell him nicely to focus on the issues that he is ignoring.

[QUOTE]
China did the same thing. They did not poke their finger in anyones problem until now, where they are strong enough to put their weight on other countries and get things their way.
[/QUOTE]

I am afraid you are not well informed about China. China was isolationist because US forced it to. China was only admitted to WTO in 2001, its not that she didn't want to "poke" but rather she couldn't.

I have never said that we should embroil ourselves in other countries disputes. But we need to spend some moolah in order to cultivate some friends and allies. In your opinion India should be isolationist but I would argue that India needs to have even more assertive foreign policy. Currently our foreign policy obsesses to much over US/EU/China. We need to have broader minds. India should aggressively market herself in Africa and Latin America. If our companies can successfully penetrate their markets, their profits will dramatically expand. How does this benefit the poor? The government can tax these companies and spend it on its welfare schemes.

[QUOTE]
India's time to do the same will come in the next 10-20 years.
[/QUOTE]

IMHO your suggestions while beneficial in short term will have disastrous medium and long implications. Example: Developed countries are right now trying to subvert Kyoto Protocol and force India to accept carbon quotas even though we have one of the lowest per capita carbon foot print. Should we wait 20 years to cultivate allies in order to resist their pressure? By then the deed will be done and our industries will be destroyed. The above mentioned LA and African markets will be totally penetrated by Chinese companies and our companies will have no chance to compete with them. Time will not wait for us.

If I have still not convinced you regarding a robust foreign policy than I am sorry that you have such isolationist views. Let us agree to disagree :)

By the way, do you live outside India ?

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

I agree - i always ask for sources. I will look for it. It was on Duniya TV or Samaa TV yesterday.

Uncalled for. I did mentioned these are just allegations right now - allegations distort perspective (rightfully or wrongfully) - perspective works as good as "Half the truth". Bottom line - perspective matters.

Also - India is not a single entity. People of India (I truly believe) are like People of Pakistan. Loving, caring, and honorable. Different sects, departments of gov, politics etc all part of India but some work for good of Humanity, some work for different goals (which could be black, white or grey).

Point being - if one hand hurts you , its hard to trust the other hand of the same entity.

Hope you understand my point of view. I am not against India. I truly want to see a peaceful world - but we have to accept perceptions are important.

May Allah give you patience and manners to talk respectfully. Ameen :)

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Prince jee do you think the owner of these "news" channels may have an ulterior motive in spinning such outlandish conspiracy theories and maintain hostility with India.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

BTW Prince, I think its sad that even an apparently sensible Pakistani like you also gives credence to such foolish theories.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Dear friend you are wrong.

Saying that China was in isolation because the US forced it to is pure non sense. Who was opposing China from entering the WTO. No one. It was their own decision. They thought that all these organizations are useless until you have enough power to influence others. Where are we placed in terms of foreign policy compared to China.

As far as the Kyoto protocol is concerned it is not mandatory for India to sign. It is more like NPT. You cannot force some one to sign it. Besides, we have other countries who are opposing this agreements as well. As far as our foreign policies aiding economic growth is concerned, it is all BS. Even with reduced tariff rate Chinese products are much more cheaper and more competitive than Indian market especially in the African and Latin American market where they only look for cheap products. Chinese companies are competitive because of the countries policies but because they can provide the product for cheaper. The end user does not of the products location in these countries as far as the product is cheap and decent quality. Look how competitive our domestic products is compared to that of Chinese imports are. The country is flooded with Chinese goods.

I think you are giving too much emphasis on our foreign policies. People have a very short term memory. Any aid we give today will be forgotten when China gives them twice that much. Look what is happening in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and Nepal. They are benefiting from the fight between India and China.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Chinese entrance into the WTO was the culmination of a long process of Sino-US rapprochement that began in 1970s. If you believe that Chinese foreign policy had nothing to do with this, and China just sauntered in to join the WTO at the moment of its own choice, then you are mistaken.

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As far as the Kyoto protocol is concerned it is not mandatory for India to sign
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India is already a signatory :) . You clearly didn't read my post properly.

As for cheaper products, you are concentrating entirely on economic factors and ignoring geo-politics.

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Besides, we have other countries who are opposing this agreements as well.
[/QUOTE]

Hmm .. so you want these other countries to solve India's problems with regards to external affairs.

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Any aid we give today will be forgotten when China gives them twice that much. Look what is happening in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and Nepal. They are benefiting from the fight between India and China.
[/QUOTE]

Of course they are. That's their foreign policy: exploiting this rivalry to enrich their national coffers. But Aid diplomacy is only a tiny part of foreign policy. There are other buttons and levers to push: Education diplomacy, historical links, military aid, cultural soft power, etc. Even if US/China are competing with us, does that mean we surrender? If Indian policy makers had followed your advice, we would have a US military base in Sri Lanka and in independent J&K by 70s. But then again, probably that doesn't matter too much to you...

I ask again, you are not living in India, right ?

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Forget it. neither of us are going to agree with each other. All I say i that our national wealth should reach our countrymen first and should and more attention should be placed to see that the money is being utilized properly.

And no, I do not live outside India. I got my higher education in Oz and am back home now.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

[QUOTE]
All I say i that our national wealth should reach our countrymen first and should and more attention should be placed to see that the money is being utilized properly.
[/QUOTE]

Amen !!

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I got my higher education in Oz and am back home now.
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I have seen this tendency in furrin educated or living Indians who often get influenced by derisive reports appearing in foreign media like " Look at the nasty Injuns 800 milion poor and are developing nukes, space program, giving aid, etc." Whilst I can understand your feelings I don't necessarily agree with your prescriptions.

It may interest you that the Indian Civil Society and Media is debating about enshrining Fundamental Right to Food Right in the Constitution. Again while I totally support the initiative, there is no point in making such amendments at national level if the local delivery infrastructure at village level is inefficient and corrupt.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

I think india has done quite enough already .. thank you

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

^^ that food can also be helping those jihadi to have chicken roast in iftari ;)

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

LoL @ asoka
Thank you man, I was missing Prophet Jahil Hamid.

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

Pakistan today said it is considering India’s offer of $five million as aid for its flood victims but a decision has been delayed as there is “sensitivity” involved in the relationship with India.

Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said his Indian counterpart S M Krishna offered the aid during a telephone conversation on Friday.

“Yes, they have offered assistance to Pakistan and they have asked the government of Pakistan to prioritise what kind of assistance we require,” he said.

“In line with the conversation that I’ve had with Mr Krishna, I’ve informed the leadership about the details and the leadership is giving it consideration,” he told a news conference

Read more at: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/pak-still-considering-indian-aid-offer-for-flood-victims-44928?cp

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Re: India should offer help to Pakistan, whether Pakistan accepts it or not

i love zaid hamid, he has such a vivid imagination....he would be a perfect screenwriter for bollywood with some of the crazy, wacky stories he concocts in his mind